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Is the economy currently recovering?

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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-10 12:05 PM
Original message
Poll question: Is the economy currently recovering?
Since "recovering" is a loaded and inexact word, the question is narrowed here...

Is the current trend of the economy up or down?

Is GDP growth increasing or decreasing? Will unemployment be heading up or down? Will foreclosures and bankruptcies go up or down going forward? Will home sales increase or decrease next year?
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-10 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. As always, I don't like to bias the poll in the OP
Edited on Mon Aug-30-10 12:12 PM by Kurt_and_Hunter
The trend of the current economy is down.

Current conditions are better than they were in the winter of 2008-2009 but the trend is down.

To say we are recovering is nothing but a word game. If we choose only two data points, say January 2009 and today, and draw a line through the two we can declare an up trend.

A serious look at the question, however, tells you that we bounced some off the economic lows in late 2009-early 2010 and are now in a down trend.

That trend may reverse next year. Or the year after. Nothing is permanent.

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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-10 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. I think trends are better for investors, but that's temporary
In any sort of a deflationary cycle, which we are in, the market inevitably follows the spiral downward.

There is no way this country is in a recovery while people are out of work, there is decreased demand for goods and services, and there isn't enough domestic industry to satisfy what demand there is nor to provide the jobs to create more demand.

The difference between a recession and a depression is this: in a recession, people are out of work and can't afford to buy anything; in a depression, there's no place to buy anything even if you have a few bucks to do it. We're headed there.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-10 12:09 PM
Original message
Remember: GDP needs to increase just to break even
2.5% per year, I believe - to cover expanding population.
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earthside Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-10 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. Where do the 'up' voters live?
We all may have to move there pretty soon.
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Amerigo Vespucci Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-10 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. My question exactly...
...what I see on a daily basis are frightened, weary people with no money...and if they do have money they are afraid to spend it.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-10 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
4. Stagnation.
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-10 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. A key point about that > > >
If the economy were a perfect flatline--truly stagnant--then the answers to the OP questions would be:

Is GDP growth increasing or decreasing? DECREASE flat-line would mean 0% growth which is lower than we have now
Will unemployment be heading up or down? HEADING UP flat-line would fall further and further behind the expanding population
Will foreclosures and bankruptcies go up or down going forward? GO UP A flat-line economy cannot generate the new money to pay the interest on loans.
Will home sales increase or decrease next year? DECREASE If there is no hope of return on investment there is less utility in buying a house and thus less price demand.

Flatline=effective decline. So stagnant, which I agree is about right, means GDP growth of 1-2% and small but positive job increases.

That is a national disaster of a high order, but since that is not outright decline some interested parties would (and do) call it a recovery.

That's where we are... where some call a disaster a recovery.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-10 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Agreed. I'd also add that although it is stagnant now, it could easily worsen.
Edited on Mon Aug-30-10 12:29 PM by JVS
Although people would think that a stagnant economy is at least stable, the ongoing unemployment that many people face is pushing them toward true crises that will be felt throughout the economy and could even push the economy back into outright decline.

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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-10 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
5. it can't possibly recover until we start taxing the rich and helping the poor.
we may have percentage points up or down, but the trend is toward what the third world was and is trying to get out of.....a huge gap between rich and poor. an unsustainable way of life. for most. for the country.
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rfranklin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-10 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
8. Jobs...jobs...jobs...there can be no recovery without jobs....
People need jobs to get money to spend. If the recovery is only for the brokerage accounts of the top two percent, that money will only be sent on a wild goose chase for higher returns.

The fact that the average American has actually lost spending power during the last 30 years is the handwriting on the wall. Instead of decent wages, we were offered debt as the way to keep spending and keep the economy humming. Now that people realize they cannot borrow indefinitely the circle if broken and the economy will tagger along in fits and starts, perhaps even collapsing from the decrease in money being circulated through spending.
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Juche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-10 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
10. No, it is limping
It isn't getting better or worse, it is just limping.
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TheMuse Donating Member (120 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-10 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
11. I think it is running out of steam
I for one think we are headed towards a double dip recession. I think the administration fundamentally miscalculated the recession, and in doing so, did not put together the correct stimulus package.

What should have been done was to put people to work. We should have had massive infrastructure spending: roads, smart power grid; solar farms, wind farms, etc. Instead what we got was a little of this, little of that approach. We could have both upgraded and fixed some of our dated infrastructure, pushed ourselves to become world leaders in green technology, and put the labor force back to work.

Now the political capital required to get this done is spent. And we will be left with more half measures, and honesty, hope at the end of the day.
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mrdmk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-10 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
12. For the overall economy there is a downward trend
Starting in 2008 to the present the Federal Reserve and the Federal Government have put in over one trillion dollars into private hands. Now take one trillion (this is low balling) and divide the number by three (also low balling), the result is $333,333,333,333. The estimate GDP for 2008 was $14.29 trillion. Dividing the $333 billion figure by the $14.29 trillion figure gives you 2.33% added by the Fed and congress to the GDP for the years of 2008, 2009, and 2010. First, these are very rough figures and the percentage is for year end.

Now, a lot of people are losing their jobs, house, and their ass. The upper middle class and below are at best maintaining, whereas the median consumer spending has been on a downward trend since 2008 with no end in sight. Most people who are maintaining are paying off their credit cards with most of their disposable income. The general consensus is, most people are doing with less.

At this time one third of the U.S.A. GDP comes from the financial sector. The financial sector and most of manufacturing sector of this country are receiving a lot of government funds. The financial sector is receiving loans from the Fed at 0% interest rate. The manufacturing sector is mostly made-up of military products. To say the least, this is not sustainable and needs to be changed.

Just to throw out another fact, the 2008 GDP growth rate was 1.3%. The ideal GDP growth rate for the U.S.A. is 3% give or take a 0.01%. Do not forget the 2.33% above...

Another thing is, in the real world, all things symmetrical, gravity included, the bottom supports the top, not the other way around. The question becomes, who are receiving these trillions of dollars?
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-10 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
13. ...
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-10 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
14. Need Wall St. reform, campaign finance reform, health care reform
etc. before it trends the other way.
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