No Exceptions Caucus - Will They IMPRISON WOMEN For Having An ABORTION?

Typically, they say they will go after the person who performs the abortion, not the person obtaining one.

who has one? This is what I've always wondered, too. If abortion is murder, then sure, the doctor is an accomplice, but the woman is as well. If they use the reasoning that abortion is murder, if they give "rights" to fetuses and abortion becomes illegal for that reason, then how will they justify letting a woman get away with murder, or even attempted or suspected murder? If killing a fetus is murder, then there is every reason to believe there will be uterine inspections after every miscarriage as a murder investigation. If their daughter has an abortion, their daughter should rightfully spend the rest of her life in prison. Do they think this is too harsh of a punishment? Well, then, they can't say abortion is murder. It is or it isn't and if it is, then a woman who has one is a murderer. Period.

What they want to do is make is sound all warm and fuzzy....."we're just protecting the little fetuses......it's not the woman's fault, it's those bad doctors..." Well, I call BS. It's murder or it isn't. If it is, your daughter goes to prison and you get a uterine inspection for every miscarriage. If it isn't murder, well then they need to STFU.

Not to mention - how are they going to enforce this? Are they going to force all women of childbearing age to take pregnancy tests every month, and if they're positive, put them in special 'pregnancy jails' until they either give birth or have a miscarriage? Will every woman have to submit evidence that she isn't pregnant every month? The intrusiveness of the possibilities are mind-blowing. But they never go that far, because they don't THINK about what they're saying.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/221742/one-untrue-thing/nro-symposium

“How much jail time?” is a contrived question that is both deceptive and desperate. It is deceptive because it ignores the fact that the American pro-life movement has consistently considered the woman as the second victim of abortion. The abortion ban enacted in South Dakota, as well as the abortion bans with post-Roe activation clauses enacted in recently in Louisiana and several other states, explicitly state: “Nothing in this section may be construed to subject the pregnant mother upon whom any abortion is performed or attempted to any criminal conviction and penalty.”

Are they saying that women are basically connived into having abortions, then? We're too stupid to know what we're doing when we "murder" our child? I don't believe they really think that. I think they're a bunch of hypocrites who don't really deep down believe abortion is the crime of murder their rhetoric claims it is. It's not really about "the sanctity of life", it's about control.

It IS about control.

That leads inexorably to their conclusion that women who receive abortions are not culpable.

It's the same reason why "consent" is not a relevant consideration when a person is charged under a rape statute for having sex with a minor. Below a certain age, we recognize that "consent" is not a valid concept for persons who have not fully developed moral reasoning capacity or are more easily manipulated than most adults.

The standpoint is entirely paternalistic. Yes, we know what is best for women, even if they don't. In their view, abortion providers are simply profiting off of women who, in their crisis, are making decisions under duress. That makes the woman a "victim", not a "participant".

It's the same type of reasoning which makes assisting suicide a crime, but not suicide itself.

Make of it what you will rhetorically, but they would make performing an abortion illegal, and would exclude the patient from the legal consequences.

This would have the effect of revoking licenses and imposing other penalties on physicians or other persons who perform them, and make safe legal abortion unobtainable.

They are not stupid enough to go around saying they would put women in jail, and that was not normally the case when abortion was illegal in most states. It's not as if this experiment hasn't been run before.

Using "they are going to imprison women" is a fine rhetorical device, but is pretty much preaching to the choir on the issue, since the anti-choicers simply take it as a piece of over-the-top rhetoric.

The rhetorical point of yours is as effective, in their view, as arguing that women should be imprisoned as accomplices to rape.

On edit: Recent attempts at bans did exactly that:

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/221742/one-untrue-thing/nro-symposium

“How much jail time?” is a contrived question that is both deceptive and desperate. It is deceptive because it ignores the fact that the American pro-life movement has consistently considered the woman as the second victim of abortion. The abortion ban enacted in South Dakota, as well as the abortion bans with post-Roe activation clauses enacted in recently in Louisiana and several other states, explicitly state: “Nothing in this section may be construed to subject the pregnant mother upon whom any abortion is performed or attempted to any criminal conviction and penalty.”

in the act of a bank robbery but allow the getaway driver to walk away free.

Its become an increasingly vogue campaign position for the RR to hear them continuously barking out these extreme anti-abortion positions without ever being called out by the MSM to explain their positions in detail as to what actions THEY would take against those women who defied such a law.

Look, I don't agree with these people, but from their perspective, the argument is a strawman.

They consider women to be the "victims" of abortion providers. Hence, the argument is like saying that a child is an "accomplice" in child molestation. We make sex with children illegal, even if the pedophile claims the child "consented". We don't charge them both with a crime.

They don't normally get "called out" on this question, because it is a misrepresentation of their position:

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/221742/one-untrue-thing/nro-symposium

“How much jail time?” is a contrived question that is both deceptive and desperate. It is deceptive because it ignores the fact that the American pro-life movement has consistently considered the woman as the second victim of abortion. The abortion ban enacted in South Dakota, as well as the abortion bans with post-Roe activation clauses enacted in recently in Louisiana and several other states, explicitly state: “Nothing in this section may be construed to subject the pregnant mother upon whom any abortion is performed or attempted to any criminal conviction and penalty.”

Since they can't go to planned parenthood anymore? What then?


I mean, isn't that a logical follow-up?

Did you know that it is illegal to assist a suicide, but that suicide is not illegal?

to abortion?

I don't see how they can get around that logic. The woman taking the pill is the person 'performing' the potential abortion they think oral contraceptives can cause.

Simple. Ban the pill. Problem solved.

go to jail too.

then if they have four kids, what.... foster care.

i hear ya.

foster care too. Because Halliburton supports family values.

Actually I think they will only go after the doctors. The doctors are easy to villianize. If they were to try to villainize the mothers it would force them to address the social issues that lead people to seek abortion. These are people who are willfully ignorant and/or in denial, they will choose the path of least resistance.

abortion is murder, then it's always murder.

The politicians who make "exceptions" understand that being consistent is not politically expedient.

These people speak in the harshest terms about adultery, abortion, homosexuality, as well as other races and belief systems, and need to be called on precisely what they have in mind to alter our Constitution and Bill of Rights.

They masquerade as Christians, but these people would take human rights away from millions of Americans if they had their way. Do they want to fill the jails with all these 'sinners?'

I think they should be called on the fact that they wish to dissolve the Constitution--quoted on it in public, taken up the flagpole and exposed for the REAL TREASON they have in mind!!! This is their Achilles heel--that what they want is to take down the Republic and replace it with a theocracy.

I am tired of seeing Democrats pandering to these extremists disguised as conservatives---THEY ARE NOT CONSERVATIVES!

Lisa Murkowski is definitely going for an independent write-in campaign. At worst, she'll win again (only 17% of eligible Repuke voters actually turned out for the Alaska primary and the Repuke primary is a closed one - no one BUT registered Repukes can vote in it). At best? She'll divide the Repukes so badly that McAdams, my good Dem friend, will be the SECOND Dem senator from Alaska!


These ideologues have NO chance of overturning Roe nor will even this conservative Court allow them to outlaw all abortion; I still worry about the coming Theocracy in the U.S., but not as much. That doesn't mean I'm not still working my skinny butt off for my Dem ideals!!

K&R

So a woman has a baby with no brain, gets a late term abortion because the baby will die anyway....then she goes to jail because of a medical condition she did not cause?

I wish they would stop using the misleading term "partial birth abortion" which is not a proper medical term according to the A.C.O.G.


These tea party folks are against government interference in your life, unless it's your sex life or your reproductive life. They want to know how often you play with yourself, who you are sleeping with and in what positions and how often, and all about whether or not you're using birth control or abortion.

They are the party of "medical experts" -- we all remember cat killer Bill Frist diagnosing Terri Schiavo via videotape, and he's a heart surgeon.

As well as the LYING RON PAUL. He is a real M.D., Ob-Gyn, who swears in his many decades of practice that he has never had a patient with a life-threatening pregnancy. Now that is statistically impossible, if he's practiced medicine for about 40 years and never had a patient with a tubal pregnancy, which will kill the mother if not removed, among many other life-threatening conditions of pregnancy (heart disease for example, pre-eclampsia).

I'm sure he's had to perform at least one C-section. When those are not done, the baby and the mother BOTH die because the baby is too big to go through the hole in the mother's pelvis.
Attempting to force a vaginal delivery killed a lot of mothers and babies back before C-sections were routine.

I personally, and my child, would be dead if I had a not had a C-section when I was pregnant with an eight pounder that was jammed in my uterus diagonally.

These people think pregnancy is a real picnic.

RON PAUL IS A LIAR ABOUT WOMEN.

Would they have a government agency investigate every miscarriage to make sure nobody took any "funny" pills?? Hello this would open up a whole new "war on drugs." If the woman takes the morning after pill will she suspected of "murder?"

WHY DO WE CONSTANTLY LET THEM GET AWAY WITH LIFE-LIFE-LIFE RHETORIC AND NOT ASK SPECIFICS??

implications.

Most of the anti-choicers want to outlaw all birth control, as well- at the very least oral contraceptives. How many times have our people called them on that? Never, by my count.

Instead, we cower in terror of the imaginary "values voter" and cede the fucking argument to them, because we're afraid that bringing it up in a country that is OVERWHELMINGLY PRO CHOICE is somehow going to hurt our chances.




It's fucking maddening, is what it is.

that those proposing draconian laws pertaining to moral issues have not thought far enough in advance to formulate the penalties for breaking these laws.

Happens all the time and really, much more political capital should be made from putting them on the spot and making them enunciate exactly what they think the penalties should be.