One thing we are missing in all of these discussions about bullying of gay students: self-defense

We need to be encouraging students who are physically bullied in school to be defending themselves, and opposing school rules that punish students for doing so; in other words, when students are suspending for simply being "in the fight". That needs to stop.


A good ass-whooping is sometimes the best remedy for stopping a school bully, far more so than a sensitivity training seminar.

Self-defense is a right. Schools (but not the legal system) don't agree though, with their "zero tolerance policy" towards violence. What worked for me with my bully was a bloody nose.

This is also why I fully support concealed carry for GLBT as well, although this obviously applies to adults.

something about themselves that isn't mainstream? Or...what?

or certain violent misdemeanors in my perfect world (right now, ALL felonies are excluding and some non-violent misdemeanors)

I support CCW's and open carry for all people , apart from those mentioned. I am just saying I am especially an advocate that those who are likely to be ganged up on and targeted (such as GLBT) get their CCW's.

I live in a "shall issue" state. I like it that way.

It's one of those things I have a strong opinion on.

this particular thread is about protecting students and weapons of any kind are not allowed on campus. However, I do think that students who are being bullied should learn edge training to gain a swift advantage.

There are defensive shooting classes a person can take which are great training as it involves using more than just the gun. As a woman I feel more confident knowing that there IS a chance in hell that I can do some real damage if some dumbass should think he can threaten me. I have been attacked before and refuse to be a victim any longer.

Ass kickings work on bullies with remarkable clarity.

Sometimes it was words, sometimes it was fists.

Anything was better then just taking it.

:crazy:

Lot's of homosexual kids were more suited to physical confrontation than I was in highschool. Some were some weren't. To suggest that being gay makes you weak is a losing argument.

Straight bullies rarely run alone. They're also generally very physical. You wouldn't know because you never went through the experience of being a "homosexual kid", sorry. The admonition to give the bully an "ass-whooping" sounds like fatherly fantasy.

. . . and you aim for their eyes or genitals. Do this enough times and they leave you alone. Of course, they'll play the victim and moan to their parents. I once had a bully's father call and berate me because I'd pushed his kid into some thornbushes. I enjoyed every second of it.

My bully was a good six inches taller than me (I was always a small kid). One day he was hovering over me and poking me in the chest with his finger. I suddenly and swiftly brought up my knee and hit the target. Knocked him over. With tears in his eyes he said something about not "playing fair". I gave him one of these: :eyes:

They need to band together in larger numbers and make it so they are never by themselves. If they have to do buddy systems, then go to that. Jesus, the kids in my daughter theater and art classes could be HUGE and they would buddy up with anyone who needed it, gay or just bullied. The kids started doing it themselves ON THEIR OWN and got a lot of support by the teachers who spread the word to students they thought would need it. This is why gay/straight groups are so important...there really are a lot of kids in high school with gay friends who WANT to support them and just need some direction. The more numbers the better.

sex life, how do you self defend against that?

or like the crap that went on with facebook stuff and some girl's mother.

the attacks are not always physical.

Unfortunately you can't stop them before they're published, but I do know that in our county any type of posting such as what you described is considered to be a form of harassment. Our area even has a special deputy in charge of that division. Like if someone you know is threatening your kid in a local chat room, they can be called in to the situation and our deputy will go and talk to the parents, the student, etc.

Not for a school solution or an underage solution, ever. But for an adult gay person I would advise they get a concealed weapon permit and learn how to shoot defensively. Women, too.

This shit is for real.

What if somebody plasters your name all over Facebook, calling you the F-word, or mocking you.

Also, remember that 9/10 times, the schools are for the bullies, and will protect them, while doing anything they can to punish the bullied.

'Guys are supposed to be stoic, silent, and strong! Stand tall you personality-less, thoughtless, feelingless soldier, you!' - American culture.

Teachers aren't always going to be around--I'm not saying go pick a fight, but stand together. That's why gay/trans clubs are so vital as many of them attract non-gays who are there to support their friends. The more kids who are in those clubs and banding together the BETTER. If someone needs to come in and teach them how to defend themselves using edge techniques, so be it. Many of these kids are in theater/drama/art and those friends need to be recruited to help STOP the bullying dead in its tracks.

It's the fear that if they follow the advice of fighting back, the instant they get arrested by the police for assault or suspended the people who gave the advice will wash their hands off of them or give more useless advice.

:eyes:

No trouble to the victim or revenge by the bully or his pack will ever result from it either. SURE thing.



Did anyone ever stop to think that some kids just don't WANT to fight? Did anyone ever stop to think that no matter how much self-defense advice you take from well-meaning adults, it isn't going to matter if you're 5'8" and weigh 135 and the bastard picking on you is 6'1", sociopathic, doesn't care, is likely high on something and is likely a way faster and better fighter than you are?

Did anyone ever stop to think that some kids just want to live their lives?

More importantly, does anyone ever stop and think that the perfect situation where the bullied kid can just fight back, beat up his tormentor (which often doesn't happen) and not get into any trouble for it whatsoever just does not exist? Eyes are everywhere. There's NEVER a situation where you're fighting and no one sees it. That's part of the bully's M.O. . . . an audience for his domination.

I mean, HELLO!! Did the thought of grabbing a chair or a bike chain or a bat or any other weapon to blast these fuckers' grills with until they couldn't talk anymore ever cross my mind? I'm pretty shit-sure it did.

It's just that I knew all too well about how school administrators work. Most of the people who bullied me were teacher's and booster's kids. Who's word are they going to take? Who's the community, the herd, going to believe? The "four eyed loner marching band fag" or the exemplary honor student, son of the teacher?

I'd have gotten sent to juvie in a fast heartbeat, the school would have been glad with one less psychopath on their hands, my life would have been ruined even worse than it already was and the assholes would continue . . . to be assholes.

That's reality, kiddies.

This reeks of victim-blaming and is just poor advice.

any more so than giving women the tools they need to begin defending themselves. Please read my other posts in this thread.

. . . to remedy something that should never be thrust upon him/her in the FIRST place. It absolves adult and parental (and if it's bad and continuous enough, police) involvement.

The police, adults, teachers, etc. can be complicit or HOURS away. We don't have TIME to wait when a person is seriously injured, or worse. These kids need ways to defend themselves NOW.

Most bullied kids are not physically or mentally able to fight back.

You think bullies don't have any defensive fighting skills at ALL? No means of seeing a punch coming? No fast adrenaline-fused recovery? Bullies wouldn't bully if they couldn't back their shit up. HELLO - bullies take karate too. There's no screening; the sensei doesn't care whether they're teaching an asshole to increase his fighting skills. They just want money.

Bullies don't see suspension or expulsion as a punishment. You fight back, more often than not, it's not going to make them leave you alone . . . TAKE IT FROM ME. You're looking at possible reprisal, usually far worse than the initial attack.

Short of arming them with a gun or pepper spray (also considered a "weapon" by most administrators), I'm literally not seeing a positive outcome to this. I'm envisioning disaster and even needless death. Adults have to intervene, administrators have to take this more seriously, bullying has to be treated as ASSAULT.

Please read the other posts I wrote in this thread, especially wrt to what was happening in my daughter's school.

Yes, of course bullying needs to be treated as assault. SO IS RAPE. That doesn't keep it from happening. Bullied kids need to band together into groups and learn how to defend themselves. Numbers speak LOUDLY. Just because you think there will be a reprisal does that mean you stand there and just take it? That's BULLSHIT.

"As an educational organization that expects you to act maturely and responsibly, and because we care about the well being of all of our students, no act of bullying; whether physical or verbal, will be tolerated whatsoever. All acts of bullying will be considered assault, resulting in instant expulsion. Your victim will not be punished for your stupidity, in case you were wondering."

"Does that make you mad or disappointed? I do not care. This school is an institution of learning that prepares you for the outside world, not a fight club. You want to fight, go join an MMA camp. You want to harass, go on Yahoo.com. Do you get assaulted or harassed in the work world? If it happens, that's an HR or police matter. It will be treated the same way here, END OF DISCUSSION."

Nip it in the bud RIGHT OFF. Let them know you, as an adult and an educator, mean business.

Reprisals and revenge ruin lives, THAT'S reality. We all like to think nothing's going to happen to a victim should he/she turn the tables, but they will be punished and their lives will be ruined. That's why they're too afraid of doing anything. I don't like reality any more than you do, but until adults step in and stop this, it's not going to end.

It's just the in the time it takes for the adults, admins and teachers to get their shit together and bullies prey upon a gay student, a student MUST be given the knowledge of how to defend themselves. Their very lives count upon it.

WE are on the same side--remember this!

Then you agree with me.

:toast:

Another would be not to assume a smallish kid can triumph over a faster and larger opponent with even a slight modicum of fighting skills. More adult intervention and attention is needed.

If my daughter was assaulted and fought back just let the school try to suspend her.

Bullying behavior loses a lot of its appeal when there is meaningful pushback. Might be a bloody nose, might be a lawsuit, might be just exposing and embarrassing them. Bullies truly are cowards, and rely on their "pack" and intimidation to abuse without threat of recourse. They seek the most vulnerable target, and lose interest as the price for their behavior rises.

tapped into my vast reservoir of rage and fought back. It feels good on many levels to stand up for yourself. I highly recommend it.

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Just Kidding ;)

I guess that joke went

At least you didn't say defending ones self from bullying was gay.

I'm just saying that doing so is probably not going to get you what you want. I would suggest that anyone interested in defending themselves against harassment engage in some kind of training.

I wouldn't use a pejorative, bullying term for a minority group to characterize that flaw.

they really don't care and usually aren't here to read it.

"they really don't care and usually aren't here to read it."

The most insulting slurs are permissible within the clubhouse, provided the object of the slur is kept out of it.

sounds likes you may be a masters candidate. Are you getting ready for the next pejorative "mentally challenged" which is the new official term until people grow tired of it.

School administrators *should* be much more punitive to the aggressors than they currently are. The person who wasn't looking for a fight deserves praise, not suspension.

The belief that the gang will stop bullying if only the weakling were go grow some balls is a really harmful stereotype.

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"The teachers, I believe, were very masculine (this is before I knew what a dyke was)...."

Ugly and unnecessary. The sexuality of the teachers has nothing to do with your experience. Grow up.

The victim will get blamed. What about kids with disabilities? What are they supposed to do? Or kids who are much smaller? Advocating that they carry weapons? Geez! Bullying kids are scum, but they don't deserve to be killed or seriously injured!

And the suggestion that kids run in packs...what if you're the only kid that is gay, disabled, etc.? Which is entirely possible in a small rural school.

Sometimes I have to check and make sure I'm actually on DU and not on some freeper site.

I am just disappointed that self-defense is so seldom mentioned as a legitimate option to stop school bullying.

It will not and can not be the only approach however.