Anyone know much about the Volkswagen TDI?

I really want to get an environmentally friendly, fuel-efficient car for my next vehicle. I love both the Prius and the Civic Hybrid, but I think it's looking more and more like I wont be able to afford a hybrid. The Volkswagen Jetta caught my attention just because of the upcoming TDI (turbo diesel) model, and it looks like it'll be one I could actually afford with all the options I want (navigation, Bluetooth, all that good shit). Does anyone know much about it? I cant find a whole lot of information on the web other than a quick review of the technical specs on carandriver.com.

They have both their own and user comments on various models... Turbos can be trouble though, and very costly to repair-- at least from my experience and what I hear on their shows. It may be model-specific though... You should post what you find for others who may be interested.

but the quality of the vehicles is lacking. I own 2 of them and I've had to have them both services more than 3 times each in their 1st year. On had its fuel system clog due to a lack of a water separator on the diesel filter (almost all diesel filters have a water separator designed in), a headlight assembly pop out, and a computer failure. The other had its starter go out 3 times, its alternator fail, and its air bag system failed. The 1st is an 06 and the 2nd is an 04.

Edit
I should mention that since i got the extended warranties on both the problems have not caused any extra cost for me....

I went with a Civic instead because most reports I read said the quality of recent VW's is very poor. I can't stand cars that don't hold up to normal use.

I'm really thinking of going with a CVT-based car simply because of the lower maintenance costs (which is why the hybrids are so attractive).

My car has been great, and CR loves 'em. If you mainly drive backroads and/or highways, they're better than hybrids.

One does undercar work, the other engine work, and neither like them. They both recommend Toyota or Mazda, in general.

I own a Prius. Great car, not just because of the mileage. It's solid, well designed inside, and drives well. I wasn't impressed by the Jetta.

Golf TDIs tend to be fine.

Some people say they're great and some say they suck. Not worth the crap-shoot IMO. I also like to work on my cars and that engine just seemed, well, weird. Anyway, Hondas are always reliable as long as they aren't all riced up. That's why I went with the Civic.

I'm not saying the OP shouldn't buy one, but definitely do some deep research first.

Golf TDI's are certainly cool cars, that's what I was interested in, but I couldn't find many for sale. They seem very rare.

I bought mine while it was still -- literally -- on the boat to Wilmington, NC.

Mine has ran great since I bought it two years ago.

Reliability is far too poor. Plus I didn't even know the diesels were legal for sale in the California emissions states. (AFAIK the "cleanest diesel in the world," the Mercedes BlueTec E320, does not yet meet the California emissions standards.)

(Ooops, never mind, I see the 2008 VW BlueTec TDI is going to be California emissions ready.)

I had an old Jetta and that was my favorite car. I cried when it died.
My bug is so reliable and I have had it for 4 years and no problems. Great gas mileage. I can hit the red mark and still go 20 miles. Great car. 5 speed.

http://www.tdiclub.com

Here's a TDI v hybrid thread at that site.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=176344


A hybrid will be no more expensive than a TDI. The TDI, which couples a diesel with a 'conventional' transmission make a more durable (re towing, aggressive driving) powertrain than the CVT's. VW's have that German driving experience (handling) that the Asian cars cannot touch. Interior fit and finish is superior. There is nothing that combines the fuel efficiency and performance of a TDI. And they are fun to work on, for some reason.

VW factory warranty currently only warrants up to B5. The model I have (PD engine - 04+) and the common rail coming with the next wave are not as tolerate of BD as the older (AHW - 04-) engines. That said, having done the due diligence, I will not hesitant to run up to B50 of quality biodiesel in my PD engine (2005).

TDI's are not for people who forget to do their maintenance. The TDI powerplant is a fine piece of engineering, and should last 100's of thousands of miles. That said, like all high performance diesel engines they are not as forgiving of maintenance lapses as the average gasser. Parts are also expensive.

VW's are not a Honda or Toyota regarding reliability, but it is no where near as dire as some in this thread are posting. Past and current TDI powerplants are fairly bulletproof (300k if maintained properly). The problem with VW's seems to be the ancillary components. I have had mine for 2 years now, and the only problem so far is the brake switch recall I just received. Probably a 15 min. fix with a $15 part if I was to do the fix myself.

If lowest risk of a repair and lowest maintenance cost is an issue, a Toyota or Honda is probably a better bet.

Two years ago, I was 50/50 between TDI and the Prius, availability and the ability safely stockpile fuel (diesel), in addition to being able to manufacture fuel in a pinch (BD) was the deciding factor. I saw what was coming in the Spring of 05, and wanted a fuel efficient car ASAP.

Pretty much still 50/50, but the ability to convert the Prius into a PHEV is attractive, and has me thinking about getting a Prius before TSHTF, as I am firmly in the EV/PHEV camp.

On edit: Another factor was speculation that a CVT rebuild is very expensive based on my research from two years ago.

Regarding TSHTF, don't take this the wrong way, but you have stated you don't plan on getting a car until the end of the year. IMHO I think you wait until then, you could find yourself in line behind a hell of a lot of other people. You may want to stick your head up, get a sense on the direction things are going, and move up your plans, like getting your name on a Prius this week, if anything to get in line.

If we still have a economy when the new TDI's start to show up, it will probably one hell of a wait to get one.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=115&topic_id=94217#94260

Price is a major factor for me, so depending on which one is the least expensive, that's what I might go for.

I had a 2000 Jetta (first year of new body style) and now I have a 2003 and love it just as well. I'm not too keen on the 2006 revision of the Jetta with the metal grill front...looks too similar to a Toyota and ruins the "flow" of line on the car. Mechanically, both of my Jettas were (are) problem free. I've been religious about regular maintenance, so maybe the horror stories are from those with careless car care. :)

J

are epinions.com and edmunds.com.

As I said above, my mechanics don't like them much, and I liked the Prius better. I do own a very old diesel (82 Mercedes). You can get or make biodiesel, which is more environmentally friendly than regular diesel. Smells cool, too. You can search for biodiesel in your area--right now it's probably about the same price as dino-diesel. http://www.biodiesel.org/buyingbiodiesel/distributors/

You can also make it from used vegetable oil, if you can find a restaurant to give you your own, and can find a source for methanol. Biodiesel works just like regular diesel--no conversion needed, and it doesn't harm the engine.

So there are advantages to a TDI beyond just the mileage. And they aren't going to fall apart on you, they just aren't quite the qaulity of a Prius.

One more thing: Priuses are supposed to have amazingly long life, because the car runs on the electric engine around half the time, so the regular engine has less wear on it. I've spoken to people who used them as couriers, and put 200K on them in less than two years. No problems at all. Point is, a used Prius is usually in better shape than another used car of the same mileage, so there are deals out there. Get a 2004 or newer, though. The 2003 and earlier models are not as efficient.

The Civics aren't nearly as fuel efficient or as environmentally friendly, from what I've seen, but are still better than average. But they are almost the same price as the Prius, so I don't see why one wouldn't go for the Prius.

Just my thoughts, observations, and general knowledge. :) It's a subject I did a lot of research on a couple of years ago.

I drive all over the LA area, so having a car without a navigation system or bluetooth isn't an option. The Prius with all those options would run me about $26K, add an extended warranty to that and we're talking $27K - $28K, and that's way out of my price range.

The 2006 Jetta TDI Consumer Reports tested had a sticker price of $24580 without BT and Navigation. I doubt a 2008, with the option package you'll have to take to get what you want, in a climate of $4 fuel costs, will be less than a Prius.

Guess being environmentally friendly comes with a huge price tag, doesn't it? :evilgrin:

:scared: Navigation systems take all the fun out of life, and I don't know enough people to need bluetooth, anyway. Besides, Navi systems cost like $300 aftermarket.

As for extended warranties, I never understood them. They only cover stuff that doesn't break. All the mechanics and salespeople I deal with laugh at them. Anyway, the Prius has a 60/60 warranty on the powertrain and a 8 year/100,000 mile warranty on the hybrid components. Beyond that, you are throwing away the cash you could be using to fix anything that breaks, assuming it would have been covered by the warranty anyway. And it's a Toyota, they never break.

I guess if you buy the VW, you might need a warranty. :rofl:

(Just being silly. Ignore me. Though if I could, I would ban extended warranties and force people who have sold them for a living to work in sweat shops while allowing sweatshop victims to move into their houses. THey are the bane of all that is decent in the universe!)

Did you have any specific questions? I can answer quite a bit.

Also, check out tdiclub.com and vwvortex.com for some guidance.

I'm biased, of course, but I'd recommend a diesel over the hybrid. A hybrid is always going to need gasoline. But a diesel, including the TDIs, can run on biodiesel.

I also prefer German engineering to the Japanese.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/which-companies-make-the-best-cars/overview/0407_best_cars.htm

"Here’s what we found:

* No carmaker does everything right. Volkswagen builds vehicles that perform very well in our testing but vary in reliability. Despite very good reliability, not all Toyota models score well.
* Just because a car is Japanese doesn’t mean it’s a great car. Honda,Toyota, and Subaru make consistently reliable cars, but other Japanese automakers have mixed results. "

Having a car that runs on biodiesel would definitely be a big "fuck you" to the oil companies, who I have really grown to hate in the last couple years.

About 50 mpg, more with decent biodiesel.

Other people on here have VW TDIs.

I get about 30 MPG city, which ain't great, but it's better than an SUV. Really rocks out, too. Then again, I've been a VW person pretty much all of my life, since I learned to drive on my Dad's old Bug.

A 2002 Golf that gets over 50 mpg and a 2005 Jetta wagon (automatic, leather, sunroof, slightly more power) that gets 45 mpg. Either one will easily hit 100 mph and climb a long hill in high gear with plenty of torque. They have 7 air bags and feel rock-solid on the road. I rode in someone's brand-new rented Camry today and realized just how good my cars are.

I've bought nothing but Honda's since the late 70's and they were my vehicle of choice until the late 90's. I had friends that owned and raced VW's over the past few decades and I respect their engineering. My little sister bought a Prius (2005) and has had no negative experiences yet. The downside to any hybrid is the high initial cost. The problem is that the payback will take about 10 years of ownership to match the cost of operation if you go for a quality diesel like the VW. The downside to hybrids is that there's no long term data on operational cost. If you only own it for a few years, it won't be your problem.

If your ultimate goal is environmental impact, the hybrid is you're choice, if operating cost is a factor a good diesel could be more cost-effective and environmentally friendly.

I'm trying to get a new car on a budget, and the Prius is about $26K.

I have been eyeing the non-hybrid Civic, which gets an excellent 40MPG and has everything I want.

My 98 Civic is rated at 32/37 mpg and I can get 40 mpg around town. On highway trips, I can't do much better unless I keep it under 70.

diesel and the desire to make the car compliant with the environmental regs of all 50 states (including the CARB states California, NY, Massachusets, Vermont, & Maine where they couldn't be sold in their current form). They WILL be available, perhaps as soon as this fall with a redesigned fuel delivery system and emissions management system that will allow them to be 50-state legal! However, reliability issues have always been a concern with VW.

The TDI engine has always been rock-solid, but little things like electrical issues often add to major ownership headaches. Depending on how quickly you want to get into something new, several manufacturers will be unveiling new diesels over the next 2 years or so, including Honda, Nissan, Daimler Chrysler, BMW, & Mazda. I'm a Honda loyalist, and their diesel, already on the market in Europe, is supposedly amazing in its fuel-efficiency and smoothness...I'm waiting for that one!

Edit to add: Maine to the Carb states.

Also, noticed you live in California, so you wouldn't have been able to purchase a new TDI in the current/old form anyway, but the new ones will be fine. I'm guessing you'll have to pay at least $24K for one, as I expect dealers to slap on premium to take advantage of expected demand.

It's not your dad's VW

The Hybrids are a little out of my price range too, and I'll be doing mostly highway driving anyway. The Beetle TDI gets roughly 45 miles per gallon and you can also run bio-deisel in them. I've only been researching the 2000-2003 models (as they are in my price range), but you can find a lot of information on them at autotrader.com.

My better half even got 60 MPG on the way home from work one day, but I was never patient enough to get that kind of mileage out of it, mainly because it ran like a scalded dog & was way too much fun to drive. And VW make the most comfy seats if you need lumbar support, too.




(on edit - correct year model)

I bought it new, and lost it in the divorce. I know VW has some QC issues, but the overriding issue for me is avoiding petroleum. I would buy another (pre 2004) in a heartbeat, as I can get 100% biodiesel. I currently have a 1983 Mercedes diesel, and am planning on getting another TDI soon. With biodiesel, the cooking oil smell is great, the lessened pollution is wonderful, but I sleep better at night knowing that nobody in Iraq is dying so that I can go to work.

Bill

Besides the milage, there are increasing opportunities to get biodeisel where I live. The engine runs cleaner, the fumes are bearable, and there's no blood on my hands - just the President's.