So I finally saw the Aqua Buddha ad ...

This ad is a rare instance of a Democrat attempting to do something I call "campaigning". Does the ad reflect our better angels? Of course not. Is it designed to push the buttons of Kentucky voters and make them think twice about electing Rand Paul? Hell yes.

We lose because we refuse to play the game. We need to elect more Democrats, especially left-leaning ones, and we need to use any legal means to accomplish that.

I think all the hand-wringing over this ad *defines* why we lose - again, and again, and again.

But I do believe in Dems fighting back, and fighting hard.

The article, of course, was disparaging the ad because it seemed to be criticizing Paul for not being a Christian. Now, of oourse I don't think that only Christians should hold office. But if those knuckledragging teabaggers think that way, then it is our duty to inform them about their candidates *true colors*.

Tired of playing nice. Unleash Hell!!!!!

The link below, however, is not Aqua Buddha:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31vbS1bOrbg

I'm so happy I don't live in the south.

:think:

than I guess it does.

:eyes:

:P

But I would never vote for him -- he's a complete psycho on so many issues.

He's a horrible, horrible human being otherwise.

We don't need any more bigots.

Interesting.

Pretty strange.

But in Jesusland its an entirely different situation.

Its called fighting fire with fire.

Thats why Paul went completely berserk over the ad. He knows its over for him now.

Don

What tells you this? I desperately want it to be true.

TlalocW

This is a war, not of our choosing.

with critical thinking skills.

The punch works on an emotional level too--it works.

which reminds me of the four book series Marvel vs. DC which had the superheroes of the Marvel world battling those of the DC world. One battle was Quicksilver vs. Flash. Flash was shown to be far faster than Quicksilver and was obviously going to win, sorta toying with Quicksilver. Except then there is a car crash nearby and Flash rushes over to rescue the car passengers. After doing so, he is weakened because of the smoke he inhaled from the burning car, and Quicksilver starts to take advantage of that. Except then, true to a Marvel character, he begins to agonize over what he is doing, the morality of taking advantage of somebody who has just beem a hero causes Quicksilver to pause, at which point Flash recovers and beats the crap out of him.

Aquaman sorta cheated against Namor as well. He was getting beat until he called upon the help of an Orca.

voter to cause them to sit on their hands. The objective is not more votes for Conway. The objective is less votes for Rand.

;) ;) ;)

K&R!

I don't care if it is going to "work" for the audience. It perpetuates the myth that this is a Christian nation and that non-Christians shouldn't be in office.

You can win an election without stooping to the lowest common denominator. This is just another version of "Obama's a Muslim."

Not willing to do what it takes to win. We know the ad is likely to be effective, but using it would be *wrong* - even though, unlike the Obama is a Muslim meme, this particular ad appears to be 100% truthful.

Instead, lets just do the the *right* thing, make an intellectual case for our side, and then complain when the tea party sets our country back 50 years.

Believe me, Rand Paul will do more harm to athiests and agnostics than that ad will ever do.

Faith-based initiatives and religious
PANDERING from OUR SIDE?

No thanks.

Would I kill a kitten to save a child's life? Yes I would. Does that mean I like killing kittens? No, I would hate to. But elections are like that. As far as I know, everything in that ad is true. If it is likely to suppress R voters, then I say go for it. Rand Paul might be the one vote in favor of re-establishing pre-existing conditions for health insurance; or for gutting Social Security; or for further crippling the unions.

Just because something is distasteful doesn't make it wrong.

Got it. If it were a slam against blacks or gays would you be as willing? What if this were a "Gee, Rand, there are rumors of you being gay? Why so many unanswered questions?" That would work. People wouldn't vote for him because he's a queer. Would you do that?

Ultimately, what the ad does is promote the truth about Rand Paul. He isn't what his base thinks he is. He is also a man of no convictions, because he is more than willing to give all the lip service in the wolrd to the religious extremism that his party pushes, even though he probably believes none of it.

Don't you think these people deserve to know they are being lied to?

Most politicians give lip service to religion. I don't believe for a nanosecond that we have as many Christians in national office as there are that say they are. But they feel they need to say that in order to survive the election. If you are going to vote for Paul and don't know his view on faith-based initiatives (which are complete bullshit), then that's your problem. For a Dem to then pander to the crazy-ass religious on the right to get them to not vote for Paul on that issue is no different than any pandering from the other side.

Pandering works sometimes. How else could a major political party survive and even thrive when it exists *solely* to economically benefit the top 5% or so of the population?

Don't get me wrong. I am 100% in agreement with you that the ad is distasteful, but I believe the stakes are so high - the R party so potentially destructive to all of our futures - that Dems really need to take off the damn gloves.

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I disagree. This is one of those cases where you need to throw the punch and apologize afterwards. This is not life-and-death.

If I was a Kentucky voter, I'd stay home for this vote.

For not knowing that Conway wouldn't support faith-based initiatives and religious pandering in any way, shape or form as much as Paul.

For thinking its a good idea for Democrats
to play holier than thou.

It sounds VERY much like Conway supports faith-based funding.

He is telling people they can't vote for Paul because he isn't a Christian with undertones of him being an atheist.

At the face value that the guy isn't a Christian. Is it still truthful to paint that lack of Christianity as something evil and something that should make people who agree with his politics unwilling to vote for him?

I have no idea how Rand Paul will do more harm to atheists than this ad. This ad is everything that is wrong about this country in regard to "athiests" (sic). The portrayal of us as something to be shunned because we don't believe in Christ is sickening. I would think progressives would not agree with this but I am no longer surprised at the attitude of progressives toward atheists.

It never criticized Paul for not *believing*. It claims that he was part of a society that was banned for *mocking* Christianity and Christ. There is a difference.

And the Aqua Buddha part - that's just freaky.

I understand that athiests and agnostics are among the most persecuted members of our society (that is, the ones who have the nads to be upfront about it). But I don't think this ad criticizes Paul on the basis of athiesm alone. It's the combination of athiesm and assholery that does the trick.

Just look at the flame wars that go on here. Someone says that using the term miracle for the miners is not correct and it turns into "your an anti-religion bigot" flame fest. If he was banned for "mocking" the Bible, that could mean any number of things that are absolute bullshit.

It's just like every other issue. We hate it when the Republicans do it but think it's great when we do it. You should be able to defeat the crazy without stooping to their level.

the willingness -- even desire -- to go for the jugular that the rebubbalickins have carefully cultivated. The rebubbalickins happily issue press releases attacking their opponent as "breaking his oath to protect and defend the Constitution" (ref: Max Cleland) -- we wring our hands and say, oh no, we mustn't do things like that, we must take the High Road -- now here are some OMB figures...

Screw that noise. Kick 'em when they're down. And if they're not down yet, trip 'em. They'll gleefully do the same to Democrats, even though that fact hasn't quite sunk in yet.

Sure, the Marquis of Queensbury would be appalled -- but the Marquis of Queensbury never ran for public office against a modern-day rebubbalickin.

Ah, but I still hear it now: Are you suggesting we sink to their level? My answer: Damn straight, I am. If it works, why not? THIS ISN'T A F*CKING GAME THEY'RE PLAYING!

/rant

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I'm disgusted with a Democrat who
supports faith-based initiatives and
implies that he will be holier than
Rand Paul.

:puke:

Did you even WATCH it?

Conway claims Paul is a LIAR and and ASSHOLE, but Conway never once says that he, Conway, would be more of a Christian.

Geesch.

It is clear that the assumption is that Conway is the one to vote for because he is what Paul isn't.

I'd call it an unqualified success, as it's now put him in the lead.

Clearly Conway is doing what needs to be done to WIN. Harry Reid should take note.

"Shun the unbeliever" is not a progressive principle.

Blacks? Gays (kind of already have been, I guess)? Hispanics?

It apparently bothers a very small few that atheists being abandoned here. And people wonder how we can possibly be so "angry."

Conway's point is that Rand Paul will say or do anything to get elected, including morphing from Mr. Aqua Buddha into an extra-special Bible-thumping fundie. If the Bible-thumping fundies are voting for Paul on that basis, the ad gives them something to consider regarding Paul's truthfulness and character.

This is Kentucky, not California. Conway hit Paul in an area where he was most vulnerable. I know that it sucks to have "go there," but we have a lot at stake in this election. The looney teanuts must be stopped at all cost.

It's throwing us under the bus to get a few boats. It shows them that even the progressive Dems are "scared" of the atheists.

There is no way the vast majority on DU would stand for this if it were blacks or gays being treated this way. But when it is the atheists, we have to do what we have to do.

We have been shit on by everyone including Obama. Hope people can understand why we're not all gung ho to jump on board for another political shunning along the way.

I'm also wondering why the theists aren't jumping on this because I'll bet you a billion dollars that if a Dem had treated believers this way, it would be the four horsemen on DU right now.

He mentioned the Aqua Buddha and the look in his eye was priceless. Last night msnbc I think maybe Hardball. LOL

He sounds to the RIGHT of PAUL in that ad.

The "mocking Christianity" sounds like an oversell and something that wasn't even Rand.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1010/43495.html

"The NoZe Brotherhood, as the group was called, was formally banned by Baylor two years before Paul arrived on the grounds of "sacrilege," the university president said at the time. "They had 'made fun of not only the Baptist religion, but Christianity and Christ,' " President Herbert Reynolds told the student newspaper, The Lariat.

The group hardly denied the charge. One "brother" told a reporter from the Lariat during Paul's sophomore year that the group was raising awareness of an abundance of both "hot air" and "dangerous and even toxic levels of Christian atmosphere on campus.""

But, hey, let's mock the guy for things seem even kind of progressive on the part of religion. Anything for a win!

Paul isn't defending his involvement in this organization, he's trying to pretend it never happened in order to live up to his party's absurd standards and win an election. He's doing anything for a win, too.

He, and more accurately the group he was part of, didn't like what was happening with religion on the Baylor campus. They wrote some sophomoric humor pieces in a paper they published about how some guy made up the bible.

Again, Dems are making it clear they will throw atheists under the bus for a win. Gotcha. Just don't expect me to be all that happy to climb back on the bus again, and again, and again.

If their tea-bagger prince Rand Paul loses simply because he couldn't pass the religious purity test that exists solely because Republicans have established it, then they may need to consider whether or not they want the Christian right to continue to be their foot soldiers.

One thing I've found odd about this election is that abortion and gay rights haven't been used very much by the GOP to try and get their base out. Instead they actually seem to be convincing their base that the Republican economic agenda is good for them and not that they need to vote Republican in spite of their economic agenda because Democrats kill babies.

"Why are there so many questions about Rand Paul?" I don't know, but you should have given us an answer to the previous questions.

I didn't like that ad at all. I later saw him responding to questions about the ad and his answers were just as disingenuous, cynical, and insulting to intelligence.

Very disappointing. There are concrete, meaningful, and sensible reasons to oppose Rand Paul. Why not talk about them instead. And just stay away from talking about his, or anyone else's, Christian faith or religion, or lack of, altogether. That's just scary and worrisome., as well as completely irrelevant.