It's not a sin to criticize the president you voted for

And that's what I am doing now, take it or leave it, I have the right to my opinion just like anyone else. I happily voted for Obama and my Democratic party, after the 8 years of obscenities and depravities preceding him he was my best choice, although I'd have voted for Clinton too if she had advanced to the top position. And now I am deeply disappointed in my president.

If he's derided by the republicans, that's just to be expected, they're the opposition party, but when your own party is knocking you, you ought to pay attention. It's like having a close friend handing you some breath mints, from anyone else it'd be an insult, but if it's your best friend, you know she's trying to tell you something.

And so I ask: What the fuck Mr. President? Why do I get the feeling that you've dropped the ball? Why is midterm defeat looming over our heads? Why are we still 'at war'? Why are the war criminals not being prosecuted? Why do we seem as if we're in another malaise of negativity? Why aren't you fighting back harder against the dangerous morons and rabid racists and homophobes? WHERE'S MY CHANGE?

The president can afford to dismiss the criticisms from the crackpots on the right, but when his own party is asking such questions he really ought to listen harder and respond accordingly. I can't quite put into words how I feel this time around, going from elation to disappointment and dread, and wondering what the hell happened. I've never felt this way before in all my life. I'm trying not to get all pissed off about it, right now I'm in the numb/shock stage, but try as I may, I'm getting pissed off at my party and their lack of spine and their go along get alongism.

I've always voted Democratic, and my folks too, and I will continue to do so, but that doesn't mean I have to hide my true feelings of disappointment. That's the only word I can think of anymore, disappointment.

Mr. President, will you please step up to the plate and snap out of it? There is some very serious shit that needs to be addressed, and there are some very dangerous people on the verge of totally destroying America. Don't you see it Mr. Obama? Being cool, calm and collected is fine most of the time, but a change of strategy is sorely and desperately needed right now.

I'm sorry, that's just the way I feel, and I know I'm not the only one. I just can't hide it any more based on some sad sense of loyalty. You're the man I voted for, and I feel you've let me and millions of others down. It's not too late Mr. President, but time is running out, and so is our patience.

:thumbsup:

Because they say so?

We have at least one self-identified Nader voter from the last election two years ago here. Think thats the only Nadernut(a half a million kooks voted for him), or LaRouche cultist we have posting around here?

You want to join up with them criticizing our president? Good luck. I am sure you will find plenty of company.

Don

And as I said, it's not a sin, it's democracy in action. republicans NEVER criticize republicans.

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And they can see both sides and make objective decisions, unlike the goose stepping repubs.

I think there are many who do not really understand the underlying ideas that are at the heart of what the US is supposed to be.

Bet you would like that.

I mean, half the stuff you are criticizing him for is stuff he campaigned to do. He didn't campaign to stop the Afghanistan war, he campaigned to escalate it. He didn't campaign to prosecute Bush -- he campaigned on "looking forward, not backward." We are going to lose in a midterm because (surprise!) not everyone agrees with us about policy, but mainly because the economy is in the tank.

As for fighting against Republicans, his three big pieces of legislation passed with EXACTLY 60 votes -- he told as many as possible to stuff it and still have the bill pass. Would you be happier if Obama fought harder and got 59 votes, and didn't pass anything? I mean seriously.

This isn't to say that criticism of a President is irresponsible -- it is really essential in a democracy. But that criticism should be founded in facts and knowledge about the structural impediments to change, and evaluate Obama based on how well he did GIVEN those impediments. Yet much of the criticism I see is either fact-free or acts like we have a dictator rather than a President in a system with supermajority requirement to do anything and other large structural impediments to change.

Not dismissing your point, which is valid, but if you presume to hold others' feet to the fire to be fair and accurate vis a vis the facts, you can't then try to slide by an idea like Obama not suggesting that he would hold people to account for criminal wrongdoing. Like torture:



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/09/obama-on-investigating-bu_n_165455.html

It's Huffpo, which I know is now on the "Enemies list," but it's video. This is what he said.

The truth is, he weasle-worded a bit during the campaign, but ABSOLUTELY suggested criminal acts would be prosecuted. Giving him a pass there does not comport with the facts.

Good faith in discussion is a great idea, but it puts the same burden on everyone. Want fair critique of the President? Don't engage in unfair excuses for him either.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-june-15-2010/respect-my-authoritah

"Obama is doing everything he campaigned on. You didn't pay attention!"

If you repeat it often enough, it becomes the truth,
but that was before Video.

...then maybe he could satisfy your needs. Either you are not aware of the current political situation in Washington, or don't care.
Yeah, I know you're disappointed, but that does not change the fact that his hands are tied. I don't know what it is you want from this president. He stepped in when things looked truly devastating, and brought us back from the brink of financial disaster. Of course, you could and should blame all that on Bush.
My patience is not running out with Obama. I know for a fact what he faced when he was elected. I knew, without a doubt, that whoever was elected was gonna have a horrible mess on his hands...republicans made sure of that. They knew they weren't going to win, so they made it as difficult as they possibly could for the dem that would be elected. And, they did a pretty damned good job of that, too!
You have a right to complain about anything you want...we all do. I just don't know what it is you expect Obama to do to make your world at ease. By your OP, it sounds like you are disappointed with the democratic party and not the president, but your thread title did not express that. So......

The "change " you were looking for required ALL democrats to be on board, and that did not happen. One man cannot affect change, not even a president. I would ask that you direct your anger and dissapointment to congressional democrats, you know, the ones who make the laws, to affect change. But, even their hands are tied without an ample majority to get legislation passed. We are essentially at a stalemate, and will remain so for the remainder of Obama's term. No amount of bitchin and gripin is gonna change that inherent fact.

"CHANGE" was a goal. It remains one for democrats, but some seem to be ready to dump Obama because he hasn't delivered what they want. Guess what? I wasn't an Obama backer in the primaries, I was for Clinton, but I'm damned glad Obama got it. Did I get what I wanted? Hell no, because my issue was healthcare reform and what they passed did nothing for me. I am paying $20K/yr in insurance premiums because my wife had cancer 7 yrs ago, and it is still going higher! I do not blame that on Obama, I place the blame where it belongs, squarely on the shoulders of the republican party.


Complain if you like, but who the hell do you expect to create the miracles you desire? Please let me know so I can champion their cause. Until then, I'm sticking with the guy we elected. We are so much better off than we were Jan. 19th 2009 because of Obama.

And you are a much more positive person than I, I hope things get better in the meantime.

.....I just disagree with where you place the blame. We are all "MAd as hell!" about what has happened to our country, but undoing eight years of republican administration doesn't happen in a couple of years. It will take a decade or better, at least that what they were saying before the election in 08. I know it's hard to wait when nothing is getting done, but that is exactly what the republican strategy has been.....block everything, give nothing, until they retain power. They count on people like you getting frustrated with Obama. It's their only shot at getting the WH back.

Yeah, I'm carrying water for Obama. Wanna drink?

We expected someone who would at least give people a thought now and then - as opposed to blindly tending to the desires of the corporations. And we were duped.

why should Obama even TRY to please you? It is generally impossible to please someone who is utterly irrational and doesn't even have a desire to learn and understand what Obama has done relative to what Obama was able to do.

I worked on the campaign down here as a precinct captain (if BzaDem refers to Brazoria County I most likely worked right along side you). I listened very carefully to the promises he made, and that started with his insistence that he was anti-war.

People are not that stupid, and you are going to see the protest vote come next Tuesday. People are pissed because the wars continue, unemployment continues, and they see no "change". They are going to vote anti-incumbent as a result.

"People are not that stupid"

If that's the case, I am completely at a loss for how someone could think a President who ran on escalating the war in Afghanistan could POSSIBLY be considered anti-war by ANYONE.

If you have any desire at all to educate yourself, you should start by reading Obama's Iraq speech in 2002, which he starts out by saying that he really has no idea why people dubbed it an anti-war rally.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Barack_Obama's_Iraq_Speech

He was "unable" to launch investigations into the other criminals that robbed us blind from wall-street?
He was "unable" to veto legislation that puts us at the mercy of Insurance companies?
He was "unable to resist the temptation to fight FOR an unconstitutional law?
He was "unable" to pound the air waves from the bully pulpit in favor of legislation that was MORE than a gift to corporations? and unable to veto legislation that hurts people while helping said corporations?

You must think he is incapable of doing his job.
Do you really think he and his elected position is so weak?

You really think very little about what he is capable of.

By the way, you do know that no one is supposed to be above the law and "looking forward" is not a valid legal reason to ignore the oath to the constitution.

I find him to be far more capable than you give him credit for, to me it appears more as a lack of will than ability, he is not mentally challenged and weak as you make him out to be, at least not in MY opinion of him.

There is no reasoning with you, you are only the second person I have ever put on ignore as a waste of time, you should be proud!
So goodbye forever to you and your BS rationalizations.

I mean, that would see like the obvious response to me. Your post is full of holes big enough to drive 5,000 trucks through, but I think you knew that when you posted it. That's why you are so uncomfortable with people who point the holes in your argument out. Anything that disturbs the bubble you have constructed for yourself must be stopped.

Was it Obama who gave corporations the right to buy elections? Was it Obama who fought against finance reform? Was it Obama who fought against HCR? Of course not!

How is he tending to the desires of corporations? Have you considered that he does what he does for the benefit of ALL Americans instead of just democrats? Yes, the dems elected him , but he is the president of all Americans. We all know that our government has become a system of gives and takes. The problem is, the republicans have refused to "give" anything. Given that, and their numbers in congress, the outcome was predictable. Now, they are feeding on the disappointment of a man who "has not delivered".

Obama is not a god, but he IS a democrat. IMO, he's a damned good one. I respect everyone's right to complain, lord knows we have plenty of reasons, but let's be realistic in our expectations.

You want change? If republicans get both houses back, you will get change. You won't like it, but you will get it!

A majority doesn't pass laws in the senate these days. It takes sixty votes! And, as we have seen, many blue dogs have voted against his agenda.

Give him a solid 60 votes in the senate, which he has never had, and you would see a whole different ballgame. You know that as well as I.

need to be repeated here.

Getting real tired of that spin. You don't need to be a god to follow and uphold the law. As far as dropping the ball Obama didn't he's doing whats planned by the real leaders.

It's depressing, but we're likely not going to get a progressive president in our lifetime. America is too religious, repressed, bitter and paranoid; too afraid of the wealthy, too subservient of corporations and too weary of the governmental process for that to happen.

The truth is, Bewsh II and Cheney will go the rest of their lives untouched and disgraced. That's it. No book was ever going to be thrown at them. The son of one of the most powerful families on the planet was never going to see one minute inside a Federal Prison . . . I don't know what made anyone thought that would happen.

He fucked the country, started two never-ending occupations based on proven cooked "evidence" and pretty much got away with it. He did everything his handlers wanted him to do - redistribute wealth upward and successfully made nearly half the people of this country go along with this scheme that they would never be in on. The only thing he failed the wealthy on (which would have REALLY screwed the country) was privatizing Social Security.

Money co-opted both parties. The government isn't even in charge of the government anymore. There was a post earlier that somehow sums up how I feel about the whole thing, and I'm paraphrasing:

"I'm never EVER going to get what I want. But at least with Democrats, I have a snowball's chance in hell of it happening. With Republicans, I have no chance at all." I cannot have those guys in charge. America will not survive another administration where all three branches are controlled by Republicans; they don't know a single thing about successful governing or economic management (of course, I reiterate that the "success" was never meant to include 94% of the population) and waste our money like fiends on useless, pointless and damaging shit.

I just wish Americans weren't such sloooooooooow learners and so goddamned stupid on this. Corporations cause nearly all of the problems in this society, but we absolutely refuse to lay any blame on them. Instead, it's a political problem. Aces.

nt

Corporations (I would say more broadly Capitalism) is the cause of most problems. Unfortunately it looks like it will have to get worse before it gets better. Austerity measures will be coming here next, and I fully expect that in the next 2 years the age to receive Social Security will at least be raised, and they will probably accomplish lowering the benefits for those who are younger now.

The only way we have a "snowball's chance" of improvement is if we get in the street and demand it. My fear is that the revolution is coming from the right, however, and that is a very scary thought. Voting is not going to do anything to deter that.

bush/cheney had unlimited powers and their crimes have damn near ruined the nation.

The only major partisan legislation Bush got through Congress was the tax cuts, because those can go through reconciliation and only need 50 votes.

On his big three pieces of legislation that needed 60 votes, each and every one of them failed.

ANWR drilling? Failed.
Social Security? Failed.
Immigration? Failed.

and it ain't the OP.

Your 3 examples are miniscule next to 6 years of running rampant with "bipartisan support."

1. Right after 911, any President could get almost anything
2. He did not get everything the right wants. This comes of shielding yourself from the right's opinions and not knowing them very well. They are far worse than you think. And they don't give up and start in on the Republicans two years into a term.

Clinton was hardly a long-term friend to the middle/working/poor classes with corproate Reaganite asswipes like Phil Gramm and Robert Rubin in his ear. While lots of good things happened on his watch, a lot of bad things - long term damaging things which financial moguls took full advantage of - happened also.

With Democrats maybe the march won't take as long, and they might not shoot sound cannons at us.

Each has their own perception of their personal reality as to what is good and what isn't.
This President has had huge odds against success, and yet he has succeeded. How many pictures or signs were out there with dubya having a bone through his nose? How about which other president has been hounded for a birth certificate? A country on the brink of failing and a congress that is pushing the issue to let it happen? I can go on and on, but hopefully you get the picture.

President Obama was hated before he won the party nomination, and more so after he won the office. There has been no honeymoon, no slack, no uncontentious voting in the House or the Senate to move forward with the needs of the people. Instead everything has been a fight. The scoreboard tilts towards the Democrats, but that isn't recognized....only the other side is recognized. Why is that? Could it be that he was expected to fail and disappointed the rightwing, the media, the pundits, the naysayers because he has not failed?

He has won against great odds. It's a shame that is overshadowed by hurt feelings.

One quarter of the party.

And from the looks of it, there's going to be a lot more disappointment on the way:

sucked up to the repukes all the time are now saying he did nothing to promote a bipartisan effort.

No thanks, I gave up fairy tales long ago.

ps....Bill Clinton is out there stumping for the Democratic Party and had this to say:

“Most of the things they’re saying about him they said about me, so I’m much more sympathetic to him than most people,” he said. “And when you get in there, if you’re an earnest policy wonk like he is and I was, it’s hard to believe there are people who really don’t want you to do your job.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/21/us/politics/21clinton.html

The people who time and again warned of the consequences of bipartisan fantasies, failure to make the right enemies, take the case to the people and draw a clear contrast between the parties were ignored in favor of the ones that the NY Times article is citing.

According to those folks, Obama (like Clinton) should have pandered to the corporate right even more than he has!

Bizarre, isn't it?

:shrug:

Is Arne Duncan slamming the administration he's a part of?

Looks to me like the Dems cited are telegraphing more conventional "wisdom" of the sort we've been seeing- and suggesting there's much more in store over the next 2 years.

It is certainly not a sin for tea par tiers to slam the president but it does't mean they have opinions worthy of respect or attention

:applause:

I'm not one of them.

You are hardly all alone in your malaise.

I've those with whom I'm close who express the very same sentiments.

Try as I may to remain hopeful, if one just listens to the insipid disingenuous punditry it's very easy to become disenchanted and then subsequently disengage. It's more than likely by design.

I do sense that our president is besieged by seen and unseen hostile forces that are unprecedented which we can scarcely fathom and that some of those have had in mind to make him the fall guy for all the criminality, sadism, thievery, and deregulation of the previous misadministration. Their influence and lawless ruthlessness and selfish short sightedness should never be underestimated.

I remain firm in my belief that Obama's heart and mind are centered and clear.

Though through dismissal of his accomplishments and more than a litany of misrepresentations, coupled with their inflation of the tea party's idiotic influence and zealotry, it's all too easy to fall prey to the forces that seem to exist only to baffle us with complete and utter BS.

Some are sadly exemplified here. . .

http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2010104222/false-things-public-knows-they-go-vote

The only way I maintain my fervent belief in progressive movement is through exposure to the natural world, meditation, and drawing from more conscious and mindful sources of info which transcend intractable dualism.

(e.g. http://www.kpfa.org/archive/id/64674 ) That interview specifically addresses your sentiments. Consider giving it a listen and kindly excuse the fundraising schtick. It doesn't last very long.

Also serendipitously stumbled into this conference this past weekend. . .

http://www.marioninstitute.org/connecting-for-change

Everytime I find folks making progressive contributions in small and large ways, I find it tremendously heartwarming.

Just because our problems may not be remedied through traditional linear means doesn't mean things will not improve.

chin up pal.

I agree, President Obama is most likely besieged in many ways, and recovery will not happen in a linear way.

I think we feed into the RW mindset when we accept the fallacy that recovery all boils down to the executive. Affecting change, embodying the changes we wish to happen, is the other part of the equation. Embodying change these days has to do with loud expression because the voice of the citizenry has to outweigh the other forces putting pressure on all branches of the government to do their bidding.

I think it is important to give respect to President Obama while we work our side of the democratic process, and give him thanks for his skills in working in such a hostile environment. In fact it is vital to not allow the RW to spin our need to express ourselves into an attack on the President, because that is what they will do.

It's not just the items mentioned in the OP. To what degree was Obama responsible for the following?

The appointment to his economic team of people who engineered the meltdown, and none of the many who warned about it. The sole exception I'm aware of is Liz Warren, and it's not clear to me that that appt. was done in the best way or was something Obama really wanted to do.
The failure to restore habeas corpus.
The failure to end illegal surveillance of U.S. citizens.
The expansion of government secrecy.
The continuation and expansion of efforts that vitiate public education.
The continuing failure to restore election integrity (paper ballots).
The continuing failure to restore restrictions on media ownership consolidation.
The refusal to give the public option a real chance.
The failure to repeal DADT. (Etc.)

As to each item, who is it that's forcing Obama to do or not do what's right, and how can we focus our efforts on whoever really does call the shots?

and that's a LOT of people!

9 days before the election? Are you asking us to vote republiCON?

And now you've topped it all by criticizing the President for being criticized!

They are not constructive, because they are vague. You don't have all you want right now, so you're just generally blaming the President.

Are you blaming your Senators and Congressional Representative too?

How about a little for Bush and Cheney, who got us into this mess and had 8 years to do it?

You shouldn't have to justify that criticism with a "but I did vote for him" disclaimer.

How about an apology for those of us who took the time to read your OP, gave it thought, etc.? I'm just wondering.

populist rhetoric, grace, and panache thrown in. Problem is, most supporters had no idea just how far to the right BHO would govern, but tell-tell signs were all around for us to see: keeping Gates and the generals which virtually assured continuance of perpetual wars concomitant with failure to prosecute known/suspected war criminals, and the inexplicable continued employment of seeming bad-egg contractors like Blackwater and Halliburton; passing inadequate financial reform in the wake of massive fraud by the Wall Street fraudsters and banksters, the appointments of Bernake and Geithner who were in the middle of all this, and a seemingly reluctance to get to the bottom of the massive fraud schemes, to ferret out those who perpetrated these schemes, and to prosecute the whole lot of them; overwhelming present concern over deficits (created with intent and malice of forethought by previous pub administrations) and not enough stimulus/other programs to address a massive structural unemployment; and a seeming willingness to gut social security while not asking those who earn a disproportionate amount of the income (income inequality) and own most of the wealth, to bear an equitable portion of the income tax burden. Add Rahm Emanuel, Ken Salazar, et al. It was continuation of a RW agenda from the get-go, albeit much more civil, polite, articulate, and elegant. :shrug:

handle it? If the people who got out to celebrate Obama during his campaign would get out in the same numbers to express their opinions and needs, Congress would listen.

When I look around, I do not see a failed president. I see a failure of democracy. Our obligations do not end after we cast our vote. the right wing seems to understand this. They are out there protesting every day. Why does the left think it can stay home?

the PO when he had 77% of the population behind him and willing to back him. Instead, he let the minority party take control of the conversation because he wanted bipartisanship.

So the question is: Did the president give up on us first, or did we give up on him first?

Speaking for myself, I defended most of what the president did his first six months in office. Once he put the PO on the table, made backroom deals with big-pharma, and extended parts of the patriot act - like warrantless wiretapping, I became quite critical of his policy decisions and began to question his support of liberal causes.

Repubs in power are worse and that is all that matters today!


Yes Obama is disappointing, GO VOTE!

Why aren't you fighting back harder against the dangerous morons and rabid racists and homophobes? WHERE'S MY CHANGE?

What the hell does that even mean?

that a President who pushes through more legislation in two years than the previous five Presidents combined -- some of it groundbreaking -- is told that time is running out and you're losing your patience.

Sure, criticize him. But remember that things move slow in Washington. Two years is a blip in time.

Find your patience again.

That's how a lot of people think. It doesn't mean they're opposed to Obama.

Just really disappointed.