HOLY SHIT! Scathing charges being laid out on Ratigan - UPDATED w/video

I'm sorry but you just have to see it.

MSNBC now

UPDATE: Here's the video: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3096434/#39836703


Bill Black: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-k-black

This is about MILLIONS of incidences of mortgage fraud and Bill Black is calling for a completely independent, SCIENTIFIC examination of what has occured in the banking industry regarding the fraud. He also pointed out that there's not been a single prosecution vs. over 1000 prosecutions during the Saving & Loan debacle. This guy is an expert at this stuff.

He called for the firing of Holder, Geithner, and Bernanke and for putting in people who are going to uphold the rule of law.

Will update with video when it becomes available. I'll also be adding info to this post.

:Shrug:

that the government plans to review the mortgages and paper that it took as collateral for some of the money it gave the banks because it appears that there was serious fraud in a small percentage but significant number of foreclosures and derivatives related to the mortgages. Ratigan and Black reject the idea that the Fed or any government agency run by someone who was involved in some respect with the deal between the government and the banks and mortgage companies that left the government holding so many of these bad mortgages. Ratigan and Black think that Bernanke, Geithner and Holder should be fired, and independent people should review the mortgages and paper given as collateral for the money that was given to the banks and mortgage companies. Ratigan and Black suggest that the government officials who were involved in the negotiations to take the mortgages and paper that is not good have a conflict of interest in assessing the value of those mortgages and paper or the extent of the problem with the mortgages because the government officials want to cover up their own stupidity.

We already know some of the things said in this clip. There was a lot of fraud in the writing and selling of the mortgages. Dylan (I think it was Ratigan) Ratigan noted that the level of sophistication in the fraud in the mortgage documents, for example the fact that false statements about income, credit reports, etc. just qualified the borrowers indicated that the fraud was on the side of the lenders, not on the side of the borrowers. That is because a borrower would not know the ratios of debt to assets, of income to debt, or the details on necessary credit ratings to be able to commit the fraud that was evident from the mortgage documents.

Anyway, I can't tell you everything in this clip, but those were the things that interested me the most.

As usual, Dylan Ratigan really gives you a new perspective and great, accurate information. As with the rest of MSNBC, he is a first class reporter and newsman. And Black cannot be beat.

for the defrauded homeowners? Still we are trying to save a failing banking system. When are they going to think about saving the people?

Failing because of one thing....deregulation.

tracked by Wikileaks.

The thing that jumped out at me was the fact that since the mortgage titles were not put in trust in the REMIC meant the investors could not examine the documents. The pension funds and mutual funds have started lawsuits to "claw back" the funds which I believe have the banks more frightened than mortgage fraud.

There was no stupidity on the banks' part. This was deliberately set up to clean out the pension and mutual funds. Thank God they never got their hands on Social Security.

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Fire the top people and address the real problems... It can be swift and stabbing painful OR slow and debilitating.

Now I can be interested and concerned.

...in talking about the lies, dishonesty and corruption in mortgage banking securities. :rofl:

If necessary by a citizens committee with a guilotine. Vive la USA.

:shrug:

:hug:

Go Giants!

:)

I and my spouse were rooting for both teams to make it to the World Series and they did!

The Rangers because they've never been to the WS and the Giants because they haven't won a World Series in some time and we like the "misfits"!

the final strike was just sweet!

I think it'll be a good series and, in the spirit of good sportsmanship, I wish your Giants all the best in their future defeat.

out?! Yippee! I don't keep up w/ sports, but glad to see Giants back in....I was in SF with the Earthquake Game. I still have my t-shirt...'The Battle of the Bay' against Oakland A's. Egads, I'm old....this was in 1989. We got swept, but I got to go to one of the games....it was the last one.

I hope the Rangers do!

Incredible deception on the part of the Pentagon - the good ol' U.S.A. is in deep shit.

right before 9/11. Nobody looked for it.

Halliburton and others for war services - but hadn't heard that money went missing before 9-11.

Any clues who exactly it went to?

if you have your :tinfoilhat: some think it might have been a reason to LIHOP or MIHOP....plus all of the SEC cases against the rich white boyz went poof as well.

War is a racket....the rich boyz sell weapons to both sides...everyone rich gets richer and the poor and the civilians are cannon fodder.

I do hope Black gets some action on his. Everyone knows these banks are insolvent....carry the assets on the books at an original value....not to the market.

they STILL give these banksters outrageou$ bonu$e$....while the people starve.

in the past...they'll see their comeuppance. Only a matter of time.

I will be watching for the video and will post it when MSNBC puts it up.

Wow. Just fucking Wow!

And there's people that literally HATE Ratigan on this site. I just don't get it.

up, down and sideways. Very impressive.

Who is he and what powers does he have?

Who is he to accuse those three of not upholding the law? What laws did they not uphold? When they were not even in their current positions when this mortgage meltdown was being started?

Of course it won't occur because Bill Black calls for it! WTF is wrong with you?

He has no more power than you or I do! That's not the fucking point! The point is, he knows what he's talking about. I POSTED HIS FUCKING BIO IN THE OP FFS! The point is he's on TV talking some straight fucking non-propaganda shit!

Thanks for your un-rec.

:thumbsup:

Talking heads blab on all day - doesn't mean shit.

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and winner of the 2001 Nobel Prize in economics agrees with Black.


http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/investing/joseph-stiglitz-corporate-crooks-to-jail/19684353/

Legal penalties for financial fraud in the U.S. have become "just a cost of doing business," Stiglitz said. "It's like a parking fine. Sometimes you make a decision to park knowing that you might get a fine because going around the corner to the parking lot takes you too much time."

"We fine them, and what is the big lesson?" said Stiglitz. "Behave badly, and the government might take 5% or 10% of what you got in your ill-gotten gains, but you're still sitting home pretty with your several hundred million dollars that you have left over after paying fines that look very large by ordinary standards, but look small compared to the amount that you've been able to cash in."

Taken together, Stigliz said, this system of widespread fraud, lax regulation and non-deterrent enforcement, created a system of skewed incentives that rewarded criminality, gambling and other bad behavior, and left American workers, investors and homeowners holding the bill.

Meanwhile, the astonishingly disproportionate influence of the big banks and corporations on the American political system has allowed powerful executives to exert their will on the U.S. government at the expense of the people, Stiglitz said.



See full article from DailyFinance: http://srph.it/aRwI4I

and you'd be A fucking Okay with it, if they are rich, connected, or in the hero worship zone.

They could probably even be Republican and get a pass. They are who they are and have the jobs they have, after all.

I'd be a disillusioned motherfucker if I believed these morons were really deserved their positions and reached them by merit.

Bill Black is an Associate Professor of Economics and Law at the University of Missouri – Kansas City (UMKC). He was the Executive Director of the Institute for Fraud Prevention from 2005-2007. He has taught previously at the LBJ School of Public Affairs at the University of Texas at Austin and at Santa Clara University, where he was also the distinguished scholar in residence for insurance law and a visiting scholar at the Markkula Center for Applied Ethics.

He was litigation director of the Federal Home Loan Bank Board, deputy director of the FSLIC, SVP and General Counsel of the Federal Home Loan Bank of San Francisco, and Senior Deputy Chief Counsel, Office of Thrift Supervision. He was deputy director of the National Commission on Financial Institution Reform, Recovery and Enforcement. His regulatory career is profiled in Chapter 2 of Professor Riccucci's book Unsung Heroes (Georgetown U. Press: 1995), Chapter 4 (“The Consummate Professional: Creating Leadership”) of Professor Bowman, et al’s book The Professional Edge (M.E. Sharpe 2004), and Joseph M. Tonon’s article: “The Costs of Speaking Truth to Power: How Professionalism Facilitates Credible Communication” Journal of Public Administration Research and Theory 2008 18(2):275-295. <snip>

<snip> He teaches White-Collar Crime, Public Finance, Antitrust, Law & Economics (all joint, multidisciplinary classes for economics and law students), and Latin American Development (co-taught with Professor Grieco, UMKC – History). <snip>


http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/black.htm

they failed to immediately review the actions of their predecessors. They have been in place for two years and have not adequately punished the fraud.

I was neither an lender nor a borrower but was able in one case with which I was very familiar to see the fraud and how it was perpetrated.

The fines Mozilla of Countrywide paid are a joke.

One point Dylan makes is that the banks and investment companies are showing big trading gains and taking big bonuses. They are doing that because they have changed the accounting rules and made deals with the government so that they (the banks and investment companies) do not hold the worthless, fraudulent paper that was sold and resold multiple times. The banks and investment companies are taking their bonuses based on balance sheets that only reflect the upside and do not reflect the losses they should be acknowledging for their bad investments in the faulty mortgages. That is a sort of accounting fraud. Look at all the money we are making. Oh, those losses? Those belong to the government, don't have to count them.

The government is not investigating this adequately and is not demanding justice for the American people in this fraud.

It is also fraud for a mortgage company to knowingly prepare papers for a borrower to sign that do not honestly reflect the borrower's true income, members of the household and outstanding other debts as well as an honest valuation for the property. In some cases, the lenders elicited fraudulent information from the borrower. The borrower did not know that he or she was committing fraud. Some of these borrowers did not even speak great English.

For example, some borrowers were financially illiterate and yet seemed to know that they needed to put on their loan applications that distant relatives were living with them and would help pay for the house. Most uneducated borrowers would not think to do that unless the mortgage officer asked them to think of people they could name. This is just one way in which the mortgage companies or their agents committed fraud.

The Obama administration has treated this fraud as a merely civil violation of regulations when the victims of the fraud actually included the homeowners, and the fraud may have been criminal in some cases.

only the beginning.

Ask any commercial real estate lawyer who was practicing during the 80's to compare how this crises has been handled to the response back then.

but got to see clearly what had gone on in the mess.

It was similar to this one. The small S&Ls were just trying to keep afloat in a tide of overvaluation and loose money that was loosed by much bigger economic interests.

that what matters is that the mainstream media is finally picking up on and acknowleging the fraud.

It's about MSM recognizing and acknowledging FRAUD.

Now it won't be a small group of leftist people aware and aghast and disgusted and outraged.

For most people, it won't even register in their frontal cortex, unless it is accompanied by the power to the TV going out.

What do you want, a depression worse than that in the '20's, people dying the street good enough?

Crazy!

unprecedented, massive scale. Top to bottom, inside out the entire real estate and financial sectors were, and still are, complicit in the wholesale looting of our nation's equity reserve.

No one will prosecute because everyone involved is guilty. Would "the government" ever open an investigation wherein virtually entire administrations are likely to be found guilty of crimes?
:kick: & R

People like myself have nothing whatsoever to do with mortagage loans other than give people names of professionals when asked.

for three times what they sold for 5 years ago indicated any problems at all. Families with two sub-average incomes "qualifying" for $400K mortgages was always the norm. Listing properties at 9AM and selling them for 20% over asking price by 2PM was just fine, no hints there either.

This is exactly what we're talking about, everybody took their cut, kept their mouth shut, and moved on to the next fee/commission. From the sales people to the appraisers, the title companies and the mortgage brokers, you all took your pittance and hoped nobody would notice until after you could get out.

As far as cut goes, our percentages or compensation has been going down. All compensation is stated on the HUD form by law. I am bound by a Code of Ethics. I cheat no one.

You should be very keen on seeing investigations. Those who perpetrated the fraud should be identified and people like you who were simply following the rules should not be painted with the same brush as those who perpetrated the fraud.

Yes, there was a lot of actual fraud by some, but not all mortgage companies and mortgage salesmen.

This is not just a matter of inflated appraisals.

I thought that Dylan Ratigan made a good point about the fact that the kinds of fraudulent misrepresentations made on the mortgage applications were too sophisticated to have been the brainchild of the mortgage applicant. The applicant had to meet certain ratios between income and prospective debt, had to have certain credit ratings, etc., and only the mortgage broker or sales person would have known how to tweak the data to help an unqualified buyer look qualified.

This was not just about exaggerated appraisals in a rapidly rising market. That may have occurred too. But the market could not have risen so high, had it not been for the many mortgage applications that were fraudulent sometimes without the buyer's understanding that they were not filled out honestly.

But it is a case of being a good german. Very few germans were involved in baking Jews (etc) like biscuits. But many of them should have known or should have been able to figure it out.

The fact that they didn't shouldn't lead them to a clear conscience. The signals were all there and the best people to figure it out were the professionals involved. But their either didn't, didn't bother, or were actually the crooks themselves. Sure your little part of the scam was innocent as far as that goes, but didn't you think to yourself at some point, "man, this is pretty weird and wild shit happening." Or did you just cash the checks and whistle while you baked, so to speak?

Ask a german about nazi's and the shame that came out of that country after WW2 lead to reforms and amendments on their constitution that made it almost impossible for them to act as the aggressors ever again. The german people, in collective shame of being "good" germans made sure of that. Compared to post nazi Germany the US has it's collective head stuck ... in the sand.

This is just a perspective. I don't think anyone here holds you personally responsible for the mess, but you are responsible for not sounding the alarm, or trying to steer folks in the right direction or something. WE ALL ARE.

Read about the same issues in depth without the hysteria. It's all been said, and much better and more balanced.

This hype is about ratings for him and Huffington.

The Wikileaks docs listed a number lower of civilian deaths that was already known.

of the corporate-owned media.

It's not just corporate owned, it is corporate through and through. From the scripts the news models are required to read, to the hiding of important information and criticism of the war, etc. To the promotion of greed, power, and "the american way".

and then make up your own mind.....Liberals do it always. Its the idiot right that forgot how to
think for themselves. I've know my Dad's politics for a long time. He always made good sense.
FOX came along and ruined him for all time. It was a very innocuous thing at first....then they began their reprogramming more forthright. Now its as blatant as can be, and their followers are FOX
zombies incapable of independent thought. Lost for all time.... :grr:

my dad was a seet guy-- and a committed John Bircher. Know how that goes.

Welcome to DU, black

Balanced by what - the crooks' side? This isn't balanced because the lying Countrywide perspective isn't shown in a fair light? Come on now, I think you must be at the wrong website. This site is for Democrats/progressives not Repug apologists.

Ratigan has been clobbering the Tea Party and GOP and corporate elite in ways no other journalist has. Is he perfect? No. Who is? He's about as outspoken against the right wing goons as someone who works in major network media can be. You know darned well if he totally went left wing he'd be gone. Do you think Bernie Sanders, Alan Grayson, Dennis Kucinich or the late Paul Wellstone would last 10 seconds on such a network? He knows there's only so far he can go. But I think he, Ed Shultz, and others on MSNBC are the best in prime-time TV network news media today. I get most of my news here, on RawStory, Truthout, etc.. But I know so many don't. At least this network, for the most part (if you can overlook the others) errs on the side of truth mostly.

:hi:

K&R

Sorry you got your ass handed to you... ridiculousness like this makes me stay away from here a lot these days. A simple "please feed the cube rats" would have worked just dandy, but no... ugh.

This is an important story and we should all be concerned. First they took all our money, now they want the real estate too. Shameful.

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Been there myself, no doubt.

This is a very important story, very important. You stated it correctly; no pardon necessary when speaking the truth under these ridiculous conditions.

I'm growing my iggy again... ugh.

"and they're everywhere.."


Yeah... it always seem to be "them." Rarely "us." Never "I."

:kick:

unfortunately

protect these criminals and do nothing for the people.

That's what some of us thought we were doing in 2008. Unfortunately, events have shown that wasn't the case.

As Roubini noted, the reason that there hasn't been a systematic investigation is because then we'd find out who the culprits were.

Frank Rich talks about the political consequences of the "get out of jail free cards" in his recent piece here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/24/opinion/24rich.html?_r=1&ref=frankrich

Some of us have been warning about it for over 20 months- and, well here we are.

"...and, well here we are."

Our country literally went to hell in a hand basket under Bush. Obama inherited a mess of epic proportion, not just with a failing economy. There are so many facets to the corruption. One of my biggest complaints about Obama is his unwillingness to confront the past administrations complicity and in some cases criminal behavior. I think his reasoning was that the country was already divided, and that it would look partisan, and ultimately not be good for the country. When he took office, he was forced into crisis management mode, and now as we peel back more layers, the stench only worsens. Couple that with a divided nation and opposition party that is more invested in him failing than the country succeeding. And with the election only a week away, the country is poised to hand power back to the Party that is least likely to confront the corporate titans who are really screwing them in every way imaginable. I don't know what the answer is, but I'm so disgusted with it all.

I feel. This is a huge machine that will be very difficult to stop because it seems no one is interested in doing so. As Betty Davis stated, "hold on, it's going to be a bumpy ride". This country has so many imbedded corruption problems, I'm really beginning to wonder if we will survive them.

I have seen online opinions that state that if the government can't get control back from the corporations then the people need to "clean house" by getting rid of the corporate crook permanently and then doing the same to their political toadies.

That seems a little extreme, but then again they argue that these are extreme times.

For out part I think that we need to support reasonable candidates whereever we might find them and encourage / help them to run. I would suggest doing a donation to the wellstone institute, a non profit that is dedicated to teaching progressives how to fight and win elections etc. They are truly a great organization.

for manufacturing fraudulent foreclosure documents:



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-k-black/foreclose-on-the-foreclos_b_772434.html?page=2

be a VERY informative person who seems to be really TRYING to FINALLY shine light on what's REALLY happening to this country

I try to watch him as much as I can and I would suggest that people start paying attention to how he's trying to expose the F WORD.... FRAUD!!

Telling it like he thinks it should be told and giving it all he's got! I really appreciate what he's trying to do and so WISH there were more like him!

Go DYLAN!

this is just more theater of the absurd.

We are sliding head long into fascism. Do you honestly think those who do the corporate bidding will actually prosecute?

EOM

is something that all Americans should be shouting from the rooftops. Think about it. If you lose your home you have lost the center of your community and sense of belonging. It could be anyone of us in a moments notice. But the worst of it is that not only did the taxpayers bail them out,we really have nothing to show for it. So we get fucked in three major ways.
1. We lost our homes.
2. The American tax payers bailed out a corrupt system, with worthless assets.
3. We now hold the toxic assets and Americans are still on the hook for the over-priced balances on
their homes. And they are still foreclosing. And lets not forget if your 401k's and retirement
packages are tied into mortgage securities, then they are really worthless.


These are the people ( the top 2%) who are trying to sabotage this election. These are the people trying to buy the election. These are the people who do not want to go to jail. These are the people who have been stealing for decades. They are the ones holding up the economy. They are doing all these things so that they can keep doing silent systematic theft. Most of this is inherited legacy theft. So many don't view it as theft. Its called the Free Market. But not for the average American. You must pay with your jobs,homes,taxes,and yes blood of your children (two wars). I fear that unless the American people go to the voting booth and elect the most educated for the office instead of ideology,then we have a chance of avoiding uprising.

Any non-voter who reads this thread, and doesn't get fired up (in a different way) to vote, apparently is dead in the water as far as I'm concerned. We, average American citizens are constantly getting "effed" on a daily basis. Basically, I would call this a new type of slavery/bondage that we all are witnessing and participating in.

Geithner, et al are in up to their eyeballs.

This administration has been as much a part of the ongoing fraud as the administration it started under.

Our guys are part of the problem rather than the solution. In these matters the not a dimes worth of difference quote is on the money.

Not enough difference between 0% and .0000000000000000001% chance of prosecution. Some but statistically null. Our leaders aren't draining the swamp they are pouring in muck and have about as many bodies buried their as the other criminals.

White hats aren't worn in this flick by the leadership of either party and that is a stone cold fact that must be honestly addressed.

weapon we have in the fight to save our country. And yes, some of our guys are part of the problem, but some aren't. We'll see who the good guys are in the days to come. Also, I think it's important that we let our representatives know that this is an issue that needs their immediate attention.

attempt to slip through a notorization free ride for the banksters does not leave any good guys in congress, unless someone was absent that day.

Who do we vote for?

IMHO we vote for the local politician who is willing to fight for the right things. We aren't electing the prez, we are electing local reps.So fid a local rep who you like and trust and vote for them. It's the best you can do.

which a lot of times are the main elections that gets overlooked by many voters. Also, thanks for the information regarding the Wellstone Institute. I'll look into this organization.

Most people in this society have gotten to love things more than people. You name me one person who wants to be without food,shelter,clothing,and possibly a little recreation. No one. We all want the same thing. Some of us just want it on a grander scale.Where your dream home cost 50,000,someone else's cost 5,000,000. Its just a matter of what you dream. But your dream should not be someone else's nightmare. No Corporation,No Big Pharma,No Big Oil, No Repugs,or No Dems should put their feet on the necks of their fellow man to achieve their dream. It is horrible that we have become a society that will allow their fellow man to be blown to bits on an unsafe oil rig or in a mine shaft with dangerous gases. And no one is held accountable. Just lets do business as usual. I don't know,we have been so busy trying to change the outcome of elections,what good will it do if humanity is the thing we really lose??????

There is a hell of a lot more dirt that needs to come out before this country can really fix this foreclosure crisis.

k&r

Holder just let him go, brought only civil charges and simply made him pay a fine that is only a small percentage of the amount Mozilla earned from his fraud.

That is shameful. Holder, Geithner, Bernanke -- they will argue that they are holding our economy together, that without their running interference, the banks would fall apart and with the banks, our economy.

Nonsense. They are encouraging criminals. Here is what they should have done:

1. Arrest the mortgage lenders that perpetrated the fraud.
2. Arrest the bankers whose schemes led to the economic crisis for fraud also because they sold securities that were based on fraud and made false representations to investors about the collateral for those securities as well as their value. Arrest the individuals who did these things even if they were doing them for corporations. The corporate veil can be torn in cases of criminal conduct.
3. Arrest anyone sitting on the board of directors of any financial institution who as an individual was involved in perpetrating fraud at some level.
4. Encourage the remaining members of the boards of those institutions to pick new management for the banks, mortgages and financial institutions.

That's not very coherent and written quickly with little thought, but it is a starting place for Holder and the Justice Department.

What prevents Holder form doing this? Corruption. Remember how Obama was going to change the way we do business in Washington? Well, here is his chance.

everyone has to much to lose if there is a real investigation and prosecution of anyone indicted.


our country no longer respects justice.