Gorbachev: Victory 'Impossible' In Afghanistan

Source: NPR

If you were President Obama and were trying to figure out how in the world to get out of Afghanistan, you might want to ask the one living person who has had to answer that question:

He withdrew Soviet troops from the country after a 10 year occupation. He spoke with the BBC about his thoughts on the current situation.

"Victory is impossible in Afghanistan. Obama is right to pull the troops out. No matter how difficult it will be," Mr Gorbachev said

Also, interestingly he thinks the current problems in Afghanistan have their roots in American policy after the Soviets withdrew.

Read more: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2010/10/28/130889638/gorbachev-victory-impossible-in-afghanistan

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That's right, we need Mikhail Gorbachev to tell the USA that we cannot win in Afghanistan. What exactly is there to win is my question - more death is what I see to be the answer and nothing more.

and get the hell out.

There is nothing to win and a lot more to lose. Right now I have a somewhat distant cousin serving over there which was not his plan. He was promised a career as a forest ranger to enlist. Needless to say the forest ranger thing isn't happening for him and probably never will. He is now on his second tour. :mad:

Damn liars! Damn them all!

:kick:

gorbachev may be a very decent man but he was a disaster for the soviet union, wasn't he?

if you want to be a success, model yourself on success not on failure

gorbachev's achievement seems to have led directly to the loss of their empire, freedom and riches for a few billionaires, and a loss of 7 years life expectancy for the working man -- he is not a man i would listen to until he freely admits how bad he screwed up life for real people and real russians

pitohui

He inherried the Afghan war of the 1980s.. You might not rembember, but USSR got into the mess in 1979, and Gorbatshev got into the office in 1984, but had not full control before 1985, mostly becouse he had to fight hard to get control from the more "conservative" arm of the Soviet union communist party

And by the way, when the reforms of Gorbatsjev really got into actions, the evidence for more than 30-40, maybe 50 year of mismanagment of USSR was showing in full, Many of the illnesses who became of both the empire and the russian state, with mutch problems for the russian pepole.

ANd he have admited a lot of his faults, as leader of USSR, and compared to the leadership before him, and after him, he tried to reform Russia, and do the right thing.. But as the 1980s was coming to closing, everything was going down the drain. First Eastern Europe was tearing itself apart, The Berlin wall was been tearing down (you migh rembember what happend in East Germany in the fall of 1989, if not try to look it up, it was amazing) And then Soviet union also fall apart, from economical, political and social problems, and on the eve of first cristmas day, 1991, the Flag of USSR was lowered for the last time, and the flag of the Russian Federation was there in place... A poorer, a chaotic nation, thats true... But not everything was Michael Gorbatsjevs fault.. As Borin Jeltsin did his part, to enrich the few, and make the rest so mutch poorer when he was in power.. If Gorbatsjev is responsible for the end of the USSR, then Jeltsin is responsible for the next decade, where corruption, and stealing of billions of state money was the norm. Billions who ended up in western banks, and qiet a few russian billionaires have used that money, to buy luxery homes here in the West... Not to say plunder and stealing money that should have going to the russian government, and the russian public. If Russia from the get goes, have had a real sivil administration, them might the life expectancy for the working man had not fallen 7 years.. And if the healt care system who was in place in USSR, had been there after the breake up, then might, just might allot of the horrible ilnesses and so on who have ravaged Russia all since, would have been under control and in check...

Try next time to really get into the facts about Russia, to claim Gorbatsjev is in fault, when you not even take into position what happend AFTER Gorbatsjev was out of office, and Jeltsin was helping himself, and his friends to the bank, to take what they wanted, then, you might have a real case..

Gorbatsjev was doing many wrong things, thats true. But compared to the chatastrofe mr Jelstin was, at least Gorbatsjev tried to reform, and to do something with the trainwreck the USSR was in the 1980s.. If Gorbatsjev had get into office, maybe a decade before he got into office, then maybe many things could have been made difference.. He might not know the full deep of what the problems of USSR was, it was a ruin when he got into power, and the bottom was deep and steep down there... But at least the end of the USSR was not coming with a big BANG, but rather with a fizzle...

Diclotican

WTF makes America think we'll be any different?

He didn't "lose" "his" empire. He made a decision between acknowledging reality and building a higher wall.

I'm rendered almost speechless by your tortured excuse for "logic"...

If he's a "very decent man", why the hell wouldn't you listen to him??? :grr:

The Soviet Union collapsed for the same reasons that the USAmerikan Empire will collapse. They collapsed under their own weight thanks to adherence to an infinite growth paradigm and excessive military spending...

And they tried to compete with the biggest set of rapacious capitalist assholes on the planet...

Gorbachov knew what was happening and tried to cushion the blow but was just too late...

And before you pull out that other piece of BS, the Soviet Union was state capitalism; NOT Socialism... Just like China...

K&R

It does not pay for the Christian
to hustle the Aryan Brown
for the Christian riles
and the Aryan smiles
and he weareth the Christian down

and the end of the fight is a tombstone white
and the name of the late deceased
and an epithet drear
a fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.

- Rudyard Kipling

candidates aren't brightly showcased.

With all the blood-thirsty tea partiers & the incumbent zombies that already give unlimited taxdollars to the military.. I'm not sure this Nation has a chance to regain its sanity.

And the women come out to cut up your remains.
Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains.
And go to your God like a soldier.

Same author.

They are patient. Like the Vietnamese.

And we hope to "win" against someone like that?

Pfft. How arrogant.

The Soviets entered Afghanistan on December 24, 1979. They completed their withdrawal from Afghanistan on February 15, 1989--a mere 3,341 days later.

The U.S. entered Afghanistan on October 7, 2001. On November 30, 2010 the U.S. will have been in Afghanistan for as long as were the Soviets.

CountAllVotes

At least he KNOW what happend, if you try to force your ideas on a nation who do not want to be part of it... Even tho it was a legite ask from the then government of Afghanistan, that first got the russians into the fry pan.. But from there, to the chaotic war and the withdraw from Afghanistan in 1988 is another history, a history of terrible cost in soldiers.. The afghan warriors was not know to be "human" when it came to russian soldiers captured in war, and the russians was not excactly nice themself...

And the irony is that at one time, the same persons who are now fighting USA in Afghanistan, was looked up on as good friends and allies of US and the west..

The best had been, if NATO and USA had leaved Afghanistan, once and for all.. It was a castratrofe when Russia involved itself to Afghanistan, it wil be a catastrope soon if NATO/USA are not leaving it, as you need to use so mutch violence and force to crush the "insurgenses":. Last time a forreign nation was doing that, was when Alexander the Great was in the area, and he was using metodes that would not be accepted in this age of time...

Diclotican

Good to see you btw!! :hi:

:dem:

CountAllVotes

;) Good to see you too:hi:



Diclotican

Better to keep the killing going until "peace with honor" can be attained however hollow and pathetic it will be.

could tell you that. It's called The Graveyard Of Empires for a reason.

It is nice to see someone admit that part of the problem there was created by us to begin with.

Even the administration recognizes that it would be impossible not only to "win," but to "defeat" the Taliban. The top brass in the military, however, continue to make public statements about both "winning" and "defeating" the Taliban. It's past time for the administration to recognize that the military brass wants to extend the violence in Afghanistan, no matter what the cost to Afghanistan or the United States. Time to end the war.

:dem:

I bet Obama will win the War!

Please tell me you're kidding...

And forgot your :sarcasm:

we know we can't "win" in Afghanistan.
Or we already won, then went and won in Iraq..

We won't win, and we won't admit defeat. We will stay the course until someone comes along and goes, "Man up. Admit defeat. and move on." perhaps in another 20 years?

:hi:

I guess some are more difficult to maintain.