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Is Alphabetic Writing a Hoax?

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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-10 10:43 AM
Original message
Is Alphabetic Writing a Hoax?
Perhaps we should speak of collective self-deception rather than a hoax. If alphabetic writing is phony, then people who have a lot of experience with it know deep down that the alphabet doesn't function as advertised. However, sudden exposure of a deeply buried act of self-deception can be traumatic, so we should begin gradually with common sense and circumstantial evidence.

Common sense tells us that the number of letters in our alphabet is slightly more than two and a half times the number of Hindu-Arabic numerals. Obviously that’s not enough to express millions of different ideas. However, if we use a writing system that has thousands of different characters, then it is possible to express thousands of different ideas. This brings us to some circumstantial evidence. Americans who win prizes in math and science contests in many cases are able to read Chinese writing. That would be a strange coincidence were it not for the fact that when people say they are “reading” Chinese writing, they are actually reading, and reading is good exercise for the mind.

In contrast, when a monolingual English-speaking person says "I am reading", it's simply code language meaning "I am resting while holding some alphabetic gibberish in front of my face." Of course, with the modern atrophy of the body and mind, lots of things mean "I am resting." For example, "I am in transit" basically means "I am sitting and waiting to arrive at my destination." For Beethoven, transit meant the physical exertion of walking dozens of miles to attend a concert.

To us, it seems odd that Beethoven is famous only as a musician and not as an athlete. Compared to us, he was an athlete. If Beethoven had been sitting on a couch in his living room and Sarah Palin had appeared on TV, then he would have simply gotten up and turned off the TV. In contrast, we sit and listen unless we can find the remote control somewhere on the couch. However, even Sarah Palin sometimes says something intelligent, such as when she said that she reads "all" the newspapers. Given that alphabetic writing is in fact meaningless gibberish, there is no reason for Sarah Palin to distinguish between different newspapers. They are all the same. If she rests while directing her gaze at one newspaper, then for all practical purposes she "reads" them all.
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-10 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
1. In college I dated a woman who was really good at gelato
Sometimes she went totally silly and acted as if anyone actually believes that the mechanism of linguistic representation by which we represent a thing is equivalent to the thing itself.
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-10 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
2. Familiarize yourself with base-26, exponents and such and it all falls into place
Edited on Sun Oct-31-10 11:00 AM by Kurt_and_Hunter
*>^<•• #!# _-_-() \"/ !!!
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-10 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
3. If only this question were accompanied by a poll?

;)
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-10 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. I feel deprived.
:shrug:
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TroglodyteScholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-10 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
5. You've got to be kidding
Common sense tells us that the number of letters in our alphabet is slightly more than two and a half times the number of Hindu-Arabic numerals. Obviously that’s not enough to express millions of different ideas.


^^^Garbage undeserving of a serious response.
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-10 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Indeed - the OP's point is ridiculous.
The real difference is that Mandarin and related languages that use ideograms like Kanji are pictorially based, while English and lots of other languages have phonetically-based writing systems.

The 26 letters in the alphabet are a rough and messy representation of the phonemes we use when we speak. And we express all the ideas we have just fine with speech, do we not?
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-10 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
6. I vote for metric time.
Gotta go, the game is on at 22.50 mtu.
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leeroysphitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-10 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
7. TL;DR
Edited on Sun Oct-31-10 10:57 AM by leeroysphitz
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-10 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
9. I'd like to see a debate
between you and Glenn Beck.

I think you'd win.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-10 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
10. Sometimes the most fun part of a post like this is
seeing how many people you can suck in.

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DavidDvorkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-10 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
11. WTF?
Sometimes, three letters and a punctuation mark are all you need.
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canetoad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-10 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
12. Then why does every computer have a wingdings font?
:rofl:
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edhopper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-10 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
13. Therefore,
since what you wrote is in alphabetic writing. What you wrote is meaningless gibberish.
I think we can all agree with that.
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-10 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
14. Is this a rejoinder to that rally for sanity?
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-10 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
15. Funny. nt
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-10 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
16. .
:kick:
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-10 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
17. That's 30 seconds I won't get back. /nt
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-10 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
18. It was much harder to change the chanel before the remote control
Edited on Sun Oct-31-10 05:10 PM by lunatica
So people would actually sit and listen to crap rather than get off the couch. I remember it well.
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OxQQme Donating Member (694 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-10 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
19. So, you're saying
that 'ugh' is different than 'Ugh' is different than "UGH!" ?


This is 'hugh' !
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Dead_Parrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-10 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
20. Hmm
01010011 01101111 00101100 00100000 01110111 01101000 01100001 01110100 00100000 01100001 01110010 01100101 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 01110010 00100000 01110100 01101000 01101111 01110101 01100111 01101000 01110100 01110011 00100000 01101111 01101110 00100000 01101101 01101111 01110010 01110011 01100101 00100000 01100011 01101111 01100100 01100101 00111111
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Motown_Johnny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-10 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
21. Beethoven had a TV?
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Nevernose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-10 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
22. For a serious answer
Except for new readers and new words, we read just like the Chinese (or other Asiatic writing systems) ;that is to say, we don't really look at words as collections of letters, but when we read, we view them as pictures.

There's a lot of research into language acquisition (that's part of what Noam Chomsky is famous for, for example). Someday when you have a fvree afternoon. You may want to read up on it -- its really very interesting.
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-10 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
23. Timecube author says you're
crazier than he is.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-10 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
24. Are you serious? Alphabets have far higher redundancy than idiograms.
Alphabets are better for holographic memory storage.

I arusse you taht if an idepargohic laaugnge unewrednt tihs tpye of asube, it wluod be comtelpely unradaeble eevn to the msot proicifent redaer.

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