How do we start making gains in the deep red South?

We have to stop ceding this region to the Republicans. They kick our ass in the vast majority of House, Senate, Governor and state level races in pretty much every state in the old Confederacy. The outlook is only going to worsen as the region is set to pick up several Congressional seats in the upcoming reapportionment - seats coming at the expense of Democratic strongholds in the north and seats that will be reapportioned by Republican state governments.

So what do we do? How do we start connecting with voters in the South? Appealing to reason, intellect, common sense, pragmatism, human decency or issues simply do not work in this region given the big election wins of Rubio, Paul, Vitter, Isakson and the like. Are there any ideas out there? Do we start courting the youth and minority vote and make this a 20 year goal? Do we start focusing on the major metropolitan centers and then work outward? Do we co-opt some wedge issue to start changing minds? I honestly don't know and I would welcome any suggestions or ideas.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

:thumbsup:

of course.

but I know there are still people who hate the north because of the civil war. One of my professors told me that he interviewed a bunch of southern people who hate the north because during the civil war sherman burned down there great great great granddads barns, its that shallow and stupid.

because most of the people like that are in the rural areas.

close friend's last name is Sherman, by the way, and she lives in very rural South Georgia. She has never had any trouble whatsoever, and neither has any member of her family. I doubt most people even know who Sherman is around here. And if they do, they don't care.

Do you find that the Civil War gets brought up more on DU than it does in your daily conversations with your fellow Southern neighbors, co-workers and friends?

I never hear ANYONE mentioning it unless there is some discussion regarding the rights of states going on - and that happens, maybe, once every so-many years.

But, here - I keep getting told that we vote Republican because we're racist and we're racist because of the Civil War.

No - the fact is that we're not as well-educated as a people (no funding for schools) and our media just plain sucks. I know - I used to be a reporter, but left about a year before the infiltration of the Conservative Publishers began, en masse.

who have never even been to the South sound nothing like my experiences living here almost my whole life. Nobody ever brings up the Civil War, or Sherman or Yankees (unless they're talking about the baseball team). It's just crazy to see people from other parts of the country who seriously believe we are racist Sherman-hating nuts down here. LOL It's beyond ridiculous.

You're right about the media and the educational system in the South. In the richer areas, the education is great, but there are a lot of poor schools without adequate funding. I think that is part of the problem. There are also other more complex issues that have unfortunately caused people here to go republican against their own best interests, but that happens in areas beyond the South as well.

One major issue is religion. People tend to be more religious here, and the republican party has them believing that democrats are Godless. It's simply not true, of course, but that's one issue among several others.

Confederate flags flying from porches AND pickup trucks. Lots of SCV members & activity. To demonstrate the racism that lingers, in 2008, my county voted democratic for all statewide & local races, plus for Senator Kay Hagan, with ONE exception. They went overwhelmingly for McCain/Dippity-Doo for President. This is not an aberration here.

What's saving NC right now is the influx of young, educated professionals, most of whom work in medicine and pharmaceutical R&D, and staff the universities. Without them, we'd be going the way of FL, SC, VA, et al.

Here in Richmond County, there are a lot like those you describe, but in the last 20 years, I have seen more and more liberal attitudes as well.

because they know it will piss you off.

Many times, the Confederate flag is used as an act of defiance by people who are not necessarily racists, but who don't like northerners who look down on them.

I found that out first time I went south in 1957.

someone with one, it didn't seem to have any racist symbolism behind it. It's also called a "rebel flag," and it can be used to denote rebellion of authority--sort of a young hell-raising male type of attitude, or as a sign of defiance, as you mentioned. Some people also think of it as a symbol of state pride. But there certainly aren't crazy Southerners standing on street corners waving confederate flags and yelling about their hatred of Sherman around here. :D I've never seen that even once!

Stop disrupting poorly.

We are not all that way. Democrats in the south get shit on by both the Republicans and the national Democratic Party, because we have to constantly hear the stereotypes directed at us...by our OWN party. State Democratic Party members have to put up with all that shit simply because of hateful backassward people we cannot control. Yeah, I said it. We cannot control those assholes who are still hung up over the civil war. Think we haven't tried?


You can start by not assuming we are all rebel flag waving rednecks and realizing that we aren't totally red. Many of us down here are blue. We are just outnumbered by idiots PLUS we have to hear shit like this from the national Democratic Party.

People living in the South come from agrarian roots and have a more rural mindset than northerners. They were brought up to believe in self-reliance, first and foremost, treating it with religious reverence. It makes them easy marks for Republicans. The way to change it is to cast off the smug intellectual superiority which simply exudes from progressives when they speak about the region. You can't ever get people to stop regarding you as "them" when you turn around and do the same thing behind their backs. Despite the way they vote, they're not stupid regarding the way liberals react to them. Talk TO them, not down to them. It's actually quite simple, Clinton knew how to do it, and it swung normally red states to him.

lived in Virginia, SC, NC and now FL (as well as a year-long stint in NH). The reasons I think southerners don't like the northerners is because a number of them sell their homes up north and then plunk down a wad of cash in the south, buy up a number of farms, etc. and drive up real estate prices. Northerners brought changes in attitudes which made Southerners feel uncomfortable--not just towards races but also how men and women interact with one another. Northerners also tend to speak their mind (be blunt) but also shy away from interfering (not my business!) and typically don't wear religion on their sleeve or judge others who do things differently. That pretty much goes against the grain of many, many Southerners. I can say it honestly that many Southerners wear their religion on their sleeves and are judgmental of those who don't, like to tell you what to do and get into your business without being invited. Of course we're not all that way but many of them are. I have also heard complaints about "big city attitudes" which can often merge with their disdain for northerners (or anyone different from them for that matter).

The South has become far more integrated with the rest of the US because of changing employment situations and the advent of the airplane, and I think it has definitely helped make life here more bearable. Still, my favorite people are those who are kind and offer to help only when necessary, otherwise I'd prefer to be left alone. That's why our time in NH and the upper MA area was a dream for me--I would love to move back there because it just suits me better as a person.

Wow. Did he wear a pith helmet and bring trinkets to trade with the natives? Did he interview these people as some kind of anthropological project involving the difference between the universally enlightened and civilized people of the north (like him, and you) and "yer typical ignorant, shoeless, hay-chewing, toothless rednecks" in the south? Did he have to actually go to the dangerous and creepy south to do these interviews, or did he pick out some "southern looking" people on campus for his interviews? You can spot them pretty easily, by the way. They walk slow, slur their words, and smell bad.

(You, and your "professor," really need some hubris detox.)

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

His name is Nathan Vaughn.

this is the end of Empire and as a region it is different from OTHER regions. I only wait for the final dissolution of the country, And I am not kidding.

the way the repukes have.

I'm in TN and the stupid is strong here.

It's not entirely hopeless. We do have a good Dem state rep here.

?

At least here in my NC county, the Yankee transplants are THE PROBLEM! We were a nice blue county until the Northern floodgates opened and a bunch of damn Yankee's with money in their pockets and time on their hands decided to retire here. Now my county is as red as a baboon's ass. They're both carpetbaggers AND teabaggers - quite the lovely combination.

As I stated in my voting thread, my district in WAKE fucking county (Raleigh) has 9700 repubs, 7900 dems and 8800 indies.

This district is a new development and is filled with transplants. My street has Bostonians across the street, Chicago next to them, upstate NY next to me, and a state trooper across the street.

Every last one of them is a republican and went lock step with these jokers. None of them are hicks from the countryside. The fuckers from the north are ruining this county.

Nearly all Northern transplants living here in Hot Springs Village, AR are Repugs! My next door neighbors are seasonal residents from Chicago & are Republicans.

all retired and have nothing else to do buy scream about taxes and attend Republicon Party functions.

aren't a lot of Black college grads moving to NC?

At least not before me. Read my above post. These are 30-somethings from the north.

much less at stake here compared to the natives.

I think we would have better minimized our (inevitable) losses by having a stronger DNC/party leadership in areas where the President low approval ratings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6w2M50_Xdk&feature=player_embedded

He lives on the West Coast, I am in the South.

First off, the Dem platform still calls for a ban on "assault weapons" and closing the poorly-named "gun show loophole". Since the former is an arbitrary term and the latter doesn't exist, it doesn't look well to people knowledgeable. And this still gives a lot of ammo to the pro-gun politicians.

And much was made of the RWers stockpiling guns and ammo after Obama won. Ammo was scarce and prices shot through the roof and remained there for well over a year. So it's still an issue. And thanks to a couple of decades of Democratic Party gun-control efforts, it's an issue that will linger for years.

It's an issue that, unlike political or economic philosophy, is solid and real and sitting in a closet or basement. Gun control laws affect gun owners directly and in real and tangible ways.

with real news.

it would involve the CDC coming to the rescue ...

and, of course, the surviving southern Repugs would still be ranting at the Gov, despite the fact that they wouldn't be alive without govt. intervention ...

Rhodes Scholar, West Point-grad who says, "Warshington."

Southern men would have followed him.

We can run conservatives, which will work in the short term (see: 2006, 2008), but which gives us DINOs with dangerously precarious seats (see: 2010).

The other option is that we can make more liberals. The way you do that is to pass good legislation and then defend it to the death. We did half of the first and none of the second.

The best way to make more Liberals is to start -- for lack of a better phrase -- fostering more dependency on the Government. One reason that states like New York and California are reliably Democratic is because of the high percentage of public employees that live there. A CRAPLOAD of people in New York and California are on the government payroll... and most of them (like moi, for example) are proudly unionized! So it is pretty fucking axiomatic: Once you get people depending on you they are going to vote for you EVERY GODDAMN TIME because a vote against you will run contrary to their own (and, by extension, their family's) best interests.

Just take a look at Western Europe if you don't believe me. Most of the countries in the EU are heavily socialized compared to the U.S because most of their citizens have a major dependency on national government -- for jobs, health care, security in their old age, etc., and -- as in France right now -- those citizens will fight you tooth and nail when you threaten to take those entitlements away (wouldn't you?)

So I don't know what the Dems are going to do in 2012 and 2016 but if I were in charge, I'd get started on fostering more dependency, ASAP. It could be the only way.

voting Republican for Senator? Or North Dakota, Indiana, Iowa, Ohio, etc.?

You are supposed to mention that you are a southerner and then mumble an apology for everything bad that has ever happened in the south from the civil war to being on the wrong side of civil rights, then agree that we are all rebel flag waving bumpkins with no brains. Then you are supposed to pretend that you are the only Democrat in your entire state. Lord knows you should never acknowledge they have red states too and you CERTAINLY should never point out to them that all these red states in the south have lots of Democrats and quite a few blue counties who fight like hell without any help from the national Democratic Party (except when Dean was in charge).

You are just supposed to say Yeee Hawww and agree with every stereotype they perpetrate about us. They like it that way. It keeps them from having to ever see us as intelligent human beings or acknowledge that there are Democrats in the south.

:thumbsup:

F--- that noise! The map was red ALL over, so they can't blame the South.
I like the way one poster put it as "the country" has gone dumb. The whole
country, the "United" States has dumbed down and gone backwards.

:hug:

I also saw all those red states all over the map.

My city of Houston voted for the Democrat running for Governor, also Dallas, and Austin.

Also the counties in the south of Texas.

It flipped the South from Democratic to Republican by the nefarious use of racism. Kevin is a much better man now. And he has authored some very good books which are worth a look see. In one he traces the post Civil War movement of people and how that has affected the political climate in different regions of the country.

He is quite knowledgeable in this area.

I'm not kidding, someone should , several someones.

and bias are abundant in ALL states, it isn't just regional.
Again, just look at the U.S. map of election results to see
it's RED all over. We cannot segregate the South as the scape goat.

Ignorance, suspicion and prejudice are some of our worst traits. They have been exploited and heightened by targeted media manipulation. I think it is also called propaganda, and it has caused paranoia in the susceptible. The Civil War and the build up to it with the consequent rabble rousing, overt racism, and call to arms created a mindset that seems to be curiously resilient. The South never really accepted defeat. I understand that. Celts don't easily forget. The anglo saxon sense of superiority doesn't like to accept defeat. The South has both. It also has very fair, understanding, and ethical people. We need to tap into that. They are all the very same, basically decent people.

Ignorance, poverty, and hopelessness are our true enemies. As a country we have shown we are better than this. We have helped win major world wars, we have, perhaps grudgingly, welcomed or incorporated diverse peoples into our culture. We must smarten up and do a better job. Prejudice and hate, both are in our human nature as are tolerance, respect and love. We must rise above the fear chain jerks and say Enough!

And as for that libertarian streak we, as a people, seem to have that does not go away, I say, smarten up, government is not your enemy, it protects your freedom. Your best shot is with us the ermmm... I dare say, with us, the liberals. We believe in liberty not corporate governance.

And the Civil War, it was an economic thing. The prejudice was exacerbated and partly manufactured. Cotton was king... Now it's oil and other corporate interests. Same old, same old. Too sad, yet so predictable. I say break the fear chains.

I dunno.

:shrug:

?

snort

I have no clue how to fight that. You can't say anything about "faith." :eyes:

either one that inhibit poor impulse control/anger issues or ones that promote positive emotional states such as ecstasy.

therefore it won't happen.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I moved to Georgia because of my job - worst mistake of my life. I'm not a quitter, but man, I've had it with these people. There is no reasoning with southern people.

Tonight is a bad night for me to talk about this, and I'm sorry to my fellow Georgia Democrats for generalizing.

not worth it

After all, "these people" are everywhere. From New England to the Mid-West to the Pacific Coast.

You could probably reason with me, but I'm a former Georgian now residing in TN and it's tough. The PTB won't fund populist democrats, just the new DLC version and people don't see much of a difference between the two. Oh, well.

I'm sorry you've had such a negative experience though, I suppose I'm just fucking used to it.:hi:

I'm a Southern "people."

Geesch.

I said I am sorry about generalizing - that's not something I do often, but last night I was in a foul mood! Today is not much better, but at least I have my wits about me.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

That would destroy the flora and fauna that make the south beautiful. We need a more targeted solution to only affect right wingers down here....something that will make them driveling idiots that don't vote as opposed to the driveling idiots that do vote that they are now.

OH... and most of us aren't ready for Howard Dean, yet.

Seriously.

BABY STEPS!

they leech off of the blue states, and the time has come for them to pull up by their boot straps. Cut them off TOMORROW.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

...how about stop pretending to be smarter than Southerners? Liberals who talk down to Southerners only make themselves look stupid. If you spent any time there, you'd know the stereotypes of Southerners are about as valid as stereotypes commonly associated with big city liberals.

And welcome to DU! :hi:

And welcome to DU. :hi:

high speed Internet, because "I don't know nuthing 'bout that"

Really, really.

Her excuse for not learning about broadband internet was that she had never learned about broadband internet.

Oh! Well that's different then, I guess.

She also has a small black cow she name "Niglet" and thinks Obama is the Anti-Christ because it says so in the bible.

She doesn't know where it says that, and yelled at me to read the bible if I didn't believe her.


She inherited millions when her late husband passed away, and still works 40 hours a week as a janitor at a local manufacturing plant.

She' 72, lives in Florida, has skin like beef jerky, and wears dresses made for teen-age girls.

She is socially retarded, and ignorant beyond all measure.

It certainly sounds like it. :thumbsdown:

Are you really going there? Should I bring up upstate New Yorkers? Eastern Washingtonians? Certain Californians?

Ignorance is not a trait exclusive to southerners, as you have plainly shown us all.

Help them recover.

The South is gone, gone, gone. Has been since 1964.

Sorry, but Quixotic battles aren't my gig. Johnson knew this would happen when he signed the civil rights bill, and he said so.

Funny, when I was born in 1970, both my Tennessee senators were Democrats and remained so until 1994. Hell, then, in 1996, my state voted for Clinton.

What do you mean gone since 1964? That Southern strategy thing didn't work - talk radio did.

Sad to say it that way but you know what I mean.

though somehow one doubts that Democrats will learn this lesson.

People love to vote for those who call them stupid :eyes:

And if you (and this is a broad 'you,' addressed to all the DUers and progressives in general who think it's a hoot to South/rural bash) don't think that the PERVASIVE rhetoric from liberals mocking gun-totin' toothless inbred redneck hillbillies with rusty pickup trucks doesn't create a significant amount of resentment, then we'll never win the South again.

Although, to answer your question seriously, one major thing that the Democratic party could do RIGHT NOW to at least stanch the flow of votes in the rural parts of the country is formally renounce silly gun control posturing, such as the meaningless prattle about "assault weapons" and threats to ban handguns. Guns have always been a part of American life and always will be, and it's absolutely moronic to just HAND the right wing millions of votes on a silver platter because special interest groups in the Democratic party would rather ban guns than deal with poverty and education (the root cause of most gun violence in this country).

And by "playing dirty," I don't mean the occasional one-liner, or ominous attack ad, or digging up a little dirt from the opponent's college years...

Politics in the south are a different animal...conservatives understand this, and that is how they have become so entrenched over the decades. In my observation, a common liberal candidate pitfall in conservative/rural districts is underestimating how many voters make their decision based on an emotional impulse rather than an intellectual one (and NO, I am NOT calling my fellow southerners dumb). The politics of fear, hate, anti-establishment and scapegoating of certain 'kinds' of people will go farther than any other campaign strategy you can name, especially in a down economy...

Run candidates that look like the Marlboro Man, can ride a horse, and shoot guns.
Avoid the wedge issues....simply refuse to talk about them.
Study the campaigns of Huey Long.
Run on a platform of Economic Justice for Working Americans.
Don't talk about ANYTHING else.


It would be a BIG help IF this candidate could point to POLICY where the Democratic Party actually accomplished Economic Justice for Working Americans.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

SC liberals in their abandoned homes.

or progressive shows.

Quite frankly, outside of Atlanta and, maybe, Memphis, we have NO alternative media down here. MSNBC is on few basic cable feeds and our newspapers have seemingly all been taken over by conservative publishers who came from the business (advertising) side instead of the news side.

We MUST get our message out somehow. I know there are rich Democrats who can buy radio stations!!

:shrug:

Just look at the exit polls in Southern states.

Stop trying to use legislation to dictate how they live.
Stop pretending you know better than they do of what is best for them.
Stop ridiculing their religion.
Stop refusing to acknowledge their different way of life.
Basically, just respecting their individual rights and freedoms would go a long ways.

I'm not even joking. I'm a native East Texan, and ain't nothing going to change those racist, fundie minds. Nothing. They have to be outnumbered and nationally (and internationally) shamed. At the moment, they are proud to be racist fundies.

Either the voting system in America is SO compromised that we only operate under the illusion of our vote counting or being counted correctly, OR this country is full of some really dumb asses.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

But when the Republican Party in Alabama 'eats' one of its own in the GOP race for governor because he said he believed in Evolution in a speech near Huntville.........

well, back to at least the question.... "Appealing to reason, intellect, common sense, pragmatism"...

And I've voted Democratic since 1980 in ALL races in ALL the states I've lived in.

*Appealing to reason, intellect, common sense, pragmatism, human decency or issues simply do not work in this region given the big election wins of Rubio, Paul, Vitter, Isakson and the like.*

I live in the south and voted Straight ticket thank you very much.

Attitudes like this are half the reason we can't make gains in the south

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

from the inside out. Right now they are not healthy enough to successfully sponsor good dem candidates and actually win in most areas of the state. I really think they hate themselves and have no desire to help change this state and there isn't anyone that I know of in leadership who has what it takes to change the situation down here.

*Living on an island of blue in a sea of red* :(

outlaw abortion and homosexuality

Refuse to allow non-English speaking citizenship.

Kick out everyone that doesn't have citizenship.

Move a few factories out of Mexico back into the South.

Welfare and aid only go to low-income whites.

And let Nick Saban run for Senate as a democrat.

-OR-

Cut the federal budget moving cost and expenses back to the states
Don't allow the states to raise taxes
Don't allow countie and cities to raise taxes
Declare war on Iran
Start the draft back
..
..
..
and see how the states swing.

Middle of the road, pseudo-Republicanism has not worked. Not worked. And not worked again.

What's that definition of insanity ???
It's broke, time to fix it.

They're not all unwashed and uneducated inbreds, like some at DU would have you believe.

Talk TO them, not AT them.

Brush the chip off of the collective shoulder that most Dems seem to have when it comes to the South.

DU'ers love to denigrate people from the South with links to sites like peopleofwalmart.com and I think that's merely the tip of the iceberg in the context of how Dems feel about the South in general. Apparently, people from the South are the only ones who almost, to hear DU'ers tell it, ALWAYS leave home for Walmart after commiting the most egregious fashion fouls.

It's a strange feeling I get here sometimes when I see people talk about places like Oklahoma, where most of my family lives. They're RABIDLY Pro-Union and nearly ALL of them are "good democrats" going back to my first memories of them in the 60's.

There's this notion here that we're just intellectually miles above them that needs to go away.

Then and only then will the South broaden their horizons... once the Left has dismounted its high horse and looked them in the eye as equals.

Energize the youth, especially in urban areas
Get candidates who can play nasty - election in the South tend to be more......aggressive
Read George Lakoff and take his principles to heart
Oh, and economic populism. It works.