We could have had a public option and lost big tonight too.

Instead we have a 1/2 assed HC bill and got the shit kicked out of us anyway.

:(

Real results and effectiveness get support.

Because they cannot stand for others getting the same benefits and entitlements that they have enjoyed all of their days. That is what this is all about.

The teabaggers (old white folks), did not want the bi-racial guy in the White House anyway. It's like someone said... Their world view has been a complete failure. They see that their children are divorced and now re-married to some "colored" and their grandchildren are gay. Geesh!

The people who are not of their generation however do not have the spine and gusto of the French, Greeks or other Europeans when it comes to hellraising! Until that fire is lit, you can expect more from the wing nuts. But I'll make it clear, hell no I won't go (to the cotton field for kkkorporate massah')!

The loss would have been more palatable if not for all the corporate giveaways.

K&R

then it must be socialism (per the wing nuts). Like I said, I'll take that Norwegian socialism any freakin' day. As for the health care bill, Barack realized after it was all over that it was quite the mistake to have Rahm Emanual "take care of it".

That was a complete disaster! The two-faced dipstick should have been fired long ago. Word is that he was fired and did not leave of his own accord.

HCR Bill because it didn't go far enough rather than it went to far.

They take what you give them and then they take the rest.

Just maybe held on to more of our '08 gains.

But yeah, I agree completely!

voted for it, both nelson's would not have voted for it, I could go on, but a plan with a public option would NOT have passed

However, if your point is that we should have fought for it even though it could not have won, instead of a half assed bill, then I agree that is a valid argument, that is, fight on principle, not to necessarily win

majority of Dems who would have voted for it, and the idea's popularity, I think you could have worn them down. After all, Kucinich reluctantly voted for the law.

pass a REAL reform bill, would have demonstrated to the people who is really looking out for their interests

The way it was done, it was totally confused and chaotic

We won't know since we didn't try.

you needed ALL of them, plus two republicans.

--that couldn't ahve worked on Lincoln and Nelson?

on HCR if there was a public option. Reid was actually pushing for it.

n.t.

Lincoln, Nelson (NE), Landrieu et al would have never voted for a public option and the whole thing would have died in the senate.

The story you're concocting is a fairy tale and it's dangerous to make political decisions based on fairy tales.

Please stop selling this.

With a hard sell to the American public, maybe we could have pushed those recalcitrants into supporting the bill. But instead we sold the public off at the very beginning and never made a real case for it.

And we could have tried reconciliation, which we ended up doing anyway. 50 votes + Biden should have been enough.

And sure, we could have set sights higher in the beginning and compromised for less.

But that's not what the OP says. It says we could have had the public option.

There is absolutely no evidence in support of that statement and plenty of evidence to the contrary.

And now what? The GOP and its crazy right-wing is back in charge of the House.

The Dems are still more powerful than the GOP--we have the White House and the Senate. But for what purpose? Does the administration know what it wants to fight for? What exactly do they want to accomplish in the next two years? It's like we're in a battle with the better army on our side, but our generals don't realize the fighting has started.

It's very frustrating. Right now the economy pretty much has to recover on its own, because the federal government won't be able to do much to help it.

instead we half assed it, and got the shit kicked out of us.

just sayin

you know, the $1.2T stimulus most economists recommended, instead of the $800B half in tax cuts his friends preferred.

:eyes:

Worst post of the night.

We can kiss the repel of DADT goodbye now too. We could have had that too, and still lost.

It really paid off
:sarcasm:

:sarcasm:

If you are going to get fucking crucified for it no matter what you do, then do it right. Well at least Obama will have a good reason not to accomplish anything now. He really has no choice.

In the WRONG direction. According to Hill insiders, the (private insurance managed) public option was intended to pass as a fig leaf for a bill essentially requiring all Americans to purchase insurance from a private corporation -- the same corporations that just got done thieving the American public -- and insurance has been lobbying both houses of Congress for this version of HCR for over a decade -- Gingrich was a big fan IIRC.

The HCR bill was designed to kill universal health care and enslave us to big insurance firms for the next 200 years. Then they decided they didn't even need the (privately managed) public option for people who don't want to pay a fine and didn't get any Wall St bailout money to pay for the newly inflated mandatory private insurance premiums, so they paraded the bill around naked and insisted on passing a pig in a poke.

They deliberately killed the progressive agenda to rob the Treasury and give the money to the corporations most favorable to Democrats before the well runs dry. Both the Dems and Reps know Peak Oil and critical war debt / upper-class subsidy debt is coming soon that will "require" them to shred the rest of the safety net and the rush will be on to empty the coffers so the urban upper middle class (Dems) and rich (Reps) can feather their nest before second-world status sets in.

rec your reply

I won't be allowing my health records into the free for all

and I won't be told to pad the wallets of big insurance

everyone can fuck right off about that

It didn't have the votes. All the revisionism in the world won't change that.

instead, they get to run against a "neither hot or cold" health care bill that most people don't understand. coup for their team.

at least had something worthwhile and lost with principles intact. :mad:

Did these clowns LEARN the right lesson from last night? Or will this drive the spineless, corporate buttkissing twerps even further from we who actually ARE Democrats.

Edwards and Clinton, during the Primary debate, in 2008,
both said they'd support a single payer, national health system, or am I mistaken?

Didn't they challenge Obama to stand for a single payer, national health system, and he refused?

Why did he refuse? Was he making a political calculation? Was he expressing what he believed?

Should I be surprised he didn't fight for a single payer, national health system?

I was surprised. I thought he was a Progressive Democrat. I hoped he was a Progressive Democrat.

I realize, now, I shouldn't have been surprised.

What will the wimp, I mean President Obama, do over the next two years?
Will he learn to fight? Will he learn to use the bully pulpit to bully the bullies, I meant the Republicans?
Will he learn to use the veto pen. Will he show some backbone? Does he have a spine?

Is it possible President Obama is doing exactly what he wishes to do?
Is it possible he is happy with the way health care turned out?

I like to think not. Call me foolish.

Let us hope President Obama steps aside so a Democratic candidate can run who has some backbone.
I wish Hillary would run. She had as good a chance getting elected in 2008 as President Obama.
I'd vote for her now. I wish I had voted for her back in 2008 instead of voting for President Obama.

or ending DADT

even against the tsunami of corporate money and propaganda.

Geezus.

of those it answers to. Big Pharma and Big Insurance got just what they paid for, while we who only gave our sweat equity before the 2008 election received broken promises and insulting admonishments.

Well, we never got that pony, but hey, Rahm just might rethink that thing of having Blue Dems in place of Real Dems... (Rahm is getting a real earful everywhere he goes in Chicago, as well.)

Yes, we could have.

chases Republicans on his honeymoon, it's no surprise that he got phucked in the ass.