Cenk Uygur: How'd That Bipartisanship Thing Work Out For You?

Edited to add this much longer missive from HuffPo's Stu Kreisman which deserves to be read alongside Cenk's article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stu-kreisman/a-letter-from-a-progressi_b_777095.html">A Letter From a Progressive to President Obama

we were told to 'stfu' and that our ideas were 'retarded'. I guess Rahm got out of town before the disaster he helped create. But that won't get him off the hook. He and Axelrod and the rest of the 'third way' DLCers who took over this party, have once again, led the party to defeat.

No, not the party, the American people. They delivered us once again into the hands of the worst Republican party ever. This crowd makes Tom Delay and Newt Gingrich look reasonable.

I hope no one ever again says to me 'we don't have the votes'. Or 'we have to do things slowly' or any of the other excuses we got each time we expressed disgust at what was being done with the majority we worked so hard to get.

We couldn't restore the Rule of Law and go after War Criminals, we were told, 'that is being politically naive'. Because if we did, Rightwingers might think the president was being 'too partisan' and we might alienate people.

I am so sick of cowards and corporatists.

Just watch what Republicans do with THEIR majority in the House. They will get the votes, some from Democrats, when they need them.


'

I wanted to be Rec #200, and was late and had to settle for 202!



Cenk is spot on - the GOP succeeded with their watering down the policies as much as they could, or outright causing a blockage. Obama got it handed to him... very saddening. We had huge majorities, and the "Dems" who didn't tow the line shoulda been kicked off their committees and put in the basement! What the HELL!!! I am sickened all we did in 2008 was not taken advantage as well as it should have. I appreciate how the president spoke today, but wow, we got thumped...

At least until after the 2012 election.

That was the main platform promise I was hoping to see being pushed through after the 2008 landslide. Meanwhile, the ice caps continue shrinking, sea levels rise and these storms continue increasing in quantity, size and intensity. These matters should constantly be headline news and discussed at length on the MSM but they aren't.

The longevity of our habitat should be everyone's top priority. Everything else will pale into insignificance if we lose it.

have air to breathe? Climate change is the greatest threat to ALL life on earth, and the Dems act like it's a non issue. They seem to think that it will be "someone else's" problem in the distant future, but unless they're already 65 or 70 years old, they're dead wrong. The changes are already happening now, and speeding up. It's time that our politicians grew the fuck up and started to notice what REALLY matters!

They won't matter at all.

Present day civilisation will seem like a house built on sand if this immediate global emergency isn't tackled urgently.

As my grandmother used to say, you can't eat gold.

or whatever the proper business terminology is.... anyway, corporations exist to expliot raw materials for profit. Once one material source is depleted, it's time to move on to the next.

Corporate profit makers sure don't want regulation on that, and global consumers don't want any slowdoen in the satisfaction of their needs. AND, voluntary reduction in demand just doesn't happen. Human nature waits for crisis, the last resort, being backed into a corner, before looking for alternatives.


Cushy toilet paper for masses and masses of human asses is more important than responsibility toward the environment.


:(


:cry:

The greates portion of the Democrats "blood bath" was in the ranks of the Blue Dogs...They will not be there to cut the throats of Democrats and I think that is a good thing..

and it was definitely something that needed to be done. So, I guess we owe the Repubs a thank you. We can now find some real Dems to win back those seats in 2012.

My only regret is that Ben Nelson was not up for re-election this time around!

On MSNBC last night, Lawrence was blaming the progressives for primarying her, saying that the primary fight "wounded" her and made her unelectable. How about blaming Obama and Clinton for supporting Ms. Unelectable, preventing the progressives from replacing her with someone who could have beaten a Republican?

The entire election fiasco can be laid at his feet.

He malingered and procrastinated and hesitated and fumbled on the health care bill -- and gave the Tea-Baggers the upswing in the organization of their movement.

With his handling of the health care bill in the Senate, Max Baucus almost single-handedly lost this mid-term election.

Max Baucus is a lesson in what not to do when you are in charge of a committee in Congress.

Unfortunately, Max Baucus remains in his seat and position in the Senate. Who knows what damage he will do to us during this session of Congress?

:mad: :grr:

Good riddance to bad rubbish. Your divisiveness and siding with Republicans will NOT be missed!

The health care bill became a disaster from the first hearings. That Baucus chaired.

He deliberately excluded pro-public option groups and even had some arrested when they showed up anyways. Remember that?

From that point on, he signalled that he would be listening to the insurance industry hacks only.

It rapidly devolved from there into a full-blown fight in which Dems capitulated on nearly every point - and got the attention of emboldened "grass root" conservatives, who turned out to be paid agitators.

The town hall meetings were the REAL birth of the Teabaggers. By the time that idiot on the floor of the Stock Exchange made his incoherent rant about "Tea parties", the funding mechanism was in place.

Yep, I agree. Baucus.

He's well earned the title of
Max Bupkus

They prove that being honest about who you are is how you can win over the corporate money.

Meg Whitman made an absolute fool of herself spending all that money to win an election.

As did the Texas oil trillionaires like the Koch brothers.

Money lost in California.

Honesty won.

Thank you, California. You are showing the way for the entire Democratic Party.

We changed from 2010 back to the pre1950s. I am old enough to remember it was not good. The do nothing congress let poor damn near starve. My family was one of them.

Especially since the people who profess it never attempted to try in the first place.

trying to prevent what happened yesterday. Bastards. :eyes:

You're right, this was so bungled by the White House it's sickening. Well said, Sabrina. :)

and serve the American people over corporate interests. They chose to coddle the right and tossed out the 51 votes needed for bill passage in favor of 60 because "we can't allow them to filibuster!" :crazy: Dumbfuckistan would rather vote for someone who is strong and wrong than right and weak. Do they get that yet? No, they never will. Look for team Obama to push the party FURTHER to the right. They crave GOP love, corporate cash, and they take the Left entirely for granted (because where else will we go)?

It's astonishing, but they do. I haven't figured it out yet, but a long time ago, before Obama, I used to watch Dems try to be nice to Repubs, only to be slapped in the face over and over again, and it always reminded me of an abusive relationship where the abused person constantly seeks approval from the abuser which they can never get except temporarily, until they escape and begin to realize that they can make it on their own.

I don't think that is going to change. I agree that the Dems will take the wrong message from this and move even further to the right.

The signs are already there. Obama is still hoping for 'cooperation' despite the fact that they have stated openly that they intend to spend two years making sure he doesn't win another term.

Thanks to the 40 year media campaign, many Dems secretly see Repukes as the real "tough guy, get it done" party and are very eager to reach out for their approval, unconsciously viewing themselves exactly the way the media has portrayed us - as wimps who need to count on Repukes to step in and save us when the going gets rough.

Every victim who views himself as weak and powerless is very eager for their bully's approval - but it will of course never come. The bully will just kick harder and laugh louder.

Dems in Washington are not immune to this - and may in fact be some of the worst cases.

Sorry to use the R-word, but that was Rahm's idea...

How's that reachy appeasey thing working for ya?

Cowards.

K&R

If you haven't I will see if I can find the links I had a week ago.

Voters backing away from him, voters leaning into him and denouncing him. And this from Democratic voters!

in Chicago. I would like to see the links if you have them :-)

for the 2012 Nomination. He will never learn to fight back. He just doesn't have it in his DNA, and we'll just lose bigger next time. This incoherent, mushy "bipartisanship" is a heap of steaming bullshit that only serves to get us defeated time and time again. It doesn't take a fucking brain scientist to figure it out.

you said it well!

understand only one thing --- being kicked hard in the balls, and being kicked first. Taking the high road, being noble, having a moral compass, stretching out the hand of bipartisan friendship, trying to cooperate & be collegial, being reasonable --- does nothing.

I am sick of cowards and corporatists too. There should not be any place for them in the Democratic party.

- precisely.

What a shocker coming from the guy who voted for Reagan and Bush.

How'd that trashing the President and his administration for two years work out for you?

:eyes:

For the record, I am a supporter of President Obama and will continue to be one if he actually realizes that the Republican's literally hate him and that all they have ever worked towards since November 08 is to do everything they can to make him a one term President. I shudder to think what will happen if he doesn't fight against that with everything he's got, starting from now until the next election.

'Nuff said.

That's just the first thing he said in that article.

And, jumping to his conclusion, if President Obama doesn't start fighting back, you think the next two years aren't going to be brutal?

Along with the so-called and sell proclaimed "professional leftists" out there?

I don't think you'll find me jumping to any of Cenk's conclusions.

You were given a chance to back it up but failed to do so.

Your help with keeping this thread kicked is appreciated, though...

Thanks.

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I don't need someone who voted for both Reagan and Bush to tell me what I should do when it comes to politics.

My points of view used to be the mainstream Democratic platform. As the Republicans moved to the far right, they moved the Democratic Party with them. I have remained true to the tenets of the Democratic Party of my youth. (I was considered a moderate then.)

No. I will not move to the right. That would be wrong.

The right-wing economic philosophy does not work. It did not work in the 19th century. We had spurts of growth back then, and a few very manipulative men like Commodore Vanderbilt and J.D. Rockefeller became extraordinarily wealthy. But the spurts of growth repeatedly ended in devastating economic crashes that threw ordinary people into hunger and despair.

Again, in the 1920s, we had a spurt of growth, a sudden burst of technological progress. But, because the wealth became, as in the 19th century, concentrated in the hands of a few and because wanna' be wealthy folks started gambling for quick bucks instead of investing steadily for solid profits, again the disparity between rich and poor caused the Great Depression. (As the rich hoarded a larger and larger portion of the money and property and the poor had to make do with a smaller and smaller share, demand waned and that is what caused the Great Depression.)

Starting with Ronald Reagan (your hero), the disparity in wealth began to grow again as Americans became persuaded by the corporate media that somehow a top-heavy, investment driven economy would create more wealth.

The crash of 2008 proved the Reagan/conservative economic theory was a failed concept.

But the Republicans never learned their lesson. The Republicans just repeat a familiar mantra. It comforts them and they do not question it or much of anything else. And Obama does not and did not know a thing about economics or even economic history. So, here we are -- in a mess that is now likely to get a lot worse.

Those of us who understand that economic balance -- a capitalist economy that through regulation insures that wealth and purchasing power do not become too concentrated in an elite few -- is the key to steady growth as well as to social harmony have lost out for the moment. But we will prevail because we are right. I think that Cenk agrees with me on this.

Thanks for your time, JTFrog. I'm long-winded and did not edit this well but I hope you read it because then you will at least know where I stand. Those of us who criticize Obama do so because we do not see politics as a team sport but as a matter that is crucial to the wellbeing of our country and its citizens.

This Republican win will bring a lot of suffering to Americans and maybe even the world. Moderation in all things is good. But today's Republican Party, what with the likes of Rand Paul and his thugs, is extremist, not moderate.

base, was a politically dangerous thing to do. He was dead right, I agreed with him completely. AND, I said it back then and I am saying it now:

Rahm Emmanuel, Axelrod, Robert Gibbs and the rest of the gang from the DLC who were installed in the WH as soon as the election was over, caused this defeat. It was NOT Cenk or anyone on a blog trying to send a message to the WH waring them that they were going to lose Independents and teachers and environmentalists and on and on as this administration attacked its own base over and over again.

To do this to the country, to help put these lunatics on the right in power is something I may never be able to forgive them for. It took eight, long, tragic years for us to get rid of them, and this gang of DLCers, as they did in the 'nineties, once again restored Republicans to power. Republicans must love the DLC.

There were excellent people this president could have chosen for his cabinet, eg. Democrats. Instead he chose Rand capitalists, Goldman Sachs alumni and kept Bush's appointees there and in the Justice Dept.

The sad fact we had to face was that Obama for some reason, cares more about Republicans than democrats. This is the 'new democrat', they admire Republican presidents, like Reagan eg. And we were fooled.

But you go ahead and blame a blogger, this president is responsible for nothing. It's all the fault of the 'professional left'.

I knew it wouldn't be long before the usual suspects would attempt to do that. And I blame them too because they defended every wrong decision, twisting themselves into pretzels to try to 'explain' each wrong decision, each insult to the base.

Like I said, I know who is to blame and they won't get off the hook as far as I'm concerned.

Try to justify it all you want, but the discontent fueled by folks like Cenk and their worshipers will take it's place in history.

The Democratic Leadership lost this election. You are the one trying to justify a total failure on the part of the party.

We, eg, wanted to primary the Blue Dogs, Rahm, brilliant strategist that he is :sarcasm: called that a retarded idea. They poured money into those Republicans wearing a 'D' label that for three consecutive elections, the base held their noses and voted for. Always with the promise that we will get 'better Dems'. Until it finally dawned on people, Blue Dogs were what the DLC wanted and they were not going to allow them to be challenged and if they were, they were not going to help their opponents no matter how good they were.

I just read here that half the Blue Dogs were wiped out tonight. That is where we lost the most. Rahm and his Blue Dogs. I guess Independents (apparently Independents who voted Democratic in 2008 by the same % were lost in this election). I guess they didn't want to hold their noses and vote. May as well vote for a real Repub. rather than a Repub pretending to be Democrat.

The DLC led the party to defeat, as they have done before. However, now that I know half the losses were Blue Dogs, I understand completely why it happened. They are no loss, it's time to clean house and it looks like Republicans did the job Rahm refused to do.

Cenk had zero influence on that. Why are DLCers and Republicans so unwilling to take responsibility for their actions? Why when they clearly fail, do they always try to blame someone else? It really is a pattern. I guess that's why they never learn from their mistakes.

And main stream media and big corporate donations had nothing whatsoever to do with it?

Milllions poured in by corporations for attack adds had nothing to do with the wins? 24/7 obama bashing from both sides had nothing to do with it?

If you think people came out and voted for the right cause Obama was too far to the right you are deluiding yourself.

far to the right Obama went, the right would still call him a socialist. I wish he had realized that also.

What I think is that progressives and independents who worked hard to give Democrats a majority, even holding their noses and voting for Blue Dogs who never represented them to begin with, decided that the 'lesser of two evils' is not a good strategy having seen the results.

It's interesting that half of the losses in the House were Blue Dogs which only goes to show, that if progressives and indies don't help out, people would rather vote for the real thing as someone famous once said.

Half lost because they were too close to center implies the other half lost because they were to far left. What that says to me is that the public bought into the idea that the Dem's were proposing too much radical change and they need to be stopped.

I don't see how you can make any sort of rational argument when folks like Grayson and Feingold lost that it was because they weren't left enough.

Our problem is and ever shall be messaging. You only need to look at the daily infighting on this board to realize that even here on DU people have bought into the idea that the Dem's were up to no good and needed to be replaced cause they just weren't good enough. Of course to get to that mindset you have to completely ignore the 8 years under bush and what the pukes have really done since Obama was elected. Thew only way that can happen is if the media and even the Dem's themselves completely ignore the GOP and focus only on the dem side of the equation.

Grayson was targeted with more corporate money than any other candidate. He is also in a very Republican district and almost made history by elected there in the first place.

23 Blue Dogs lost because they no longer have people supporting the 'lesser evil'.

I hope the rest of them suffer the same fate. They have been nothing but obstructionists, as bad as any Republican, and I know that at this point, if I lived in their dists I could no longer support them just for the numbers. It didn't work, it got us nowhere on progressive issues.

If you want to keep pushing the same old 'lesser evil' policies, go ahead, but I think you've lost a good deal of support for that failed strategy at this point.

"...Democrats lost because party leaders never truly fought for popular progressive reforms like the public option and breaking up the big banks, leaving voters uninspired to come to the polls and vote Democratic. What the average voter saw of Democrats was weak, watered-down change -- and weak Democratic leaders who cut deals with the very Wall Street banks and insurance companies they are supposed to be fighting..."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/03/progressives-fault-econom_n_778365.html

But here we are, arguing whether it's true or not. The Chewy Nougat Centrists will never, ever get it.

That to the teabagger mentality, anything left of Ayn Rand is socialism, period.

That's not something you can try to compromise with, unless you're willing to go right of Reagan just as a start.

Paying a portion of your income (just like income tax) for coverage, with no deductibles, no co-pays, free for the poor and unemployed. What if he had let the TBTF crumble and had never hired Turbo Tax Timmy, Larry Summers and had never re-hired Bernacke? Right now many new and lots of established but smaller banks would be picking up the pieces, lending to small business again, we've be on the road to recovery instead of still on the way to depression. What if we were out of of Iraq and Afghanistan? What if instead of tax cuts he put the whole of the stimulus into infrastructure with direct hiring programs like the CCC? What if started a massive program to end our dependence on oil for fuel?

What if he didn't get any of those but fought his ass off trying and made sure EVERY DAMN DAY that America knew the problem was the republicans and the blue dogs?


There's more, lots more. Face it Mr. Obama is a dud. He speaks well, maybe even means well, he looked like he had ALL the right stuff, but he is a colossal dud.

to get ... a lot ... richer ... than they were before they ... started...

Sometimes it looks like their MO is something like... promise a lot of good things... get voted in... look for more money... get it... then... it's a tough job... compromise... get more money for those compromises... get voted out... hey! welcome to the rich class! ... hey! Life is good, out of the 'lesser' class, that is.... :(

them from using their elected offices for profit?

We need outside intervention! :-(

The base of either the Democrats or Republicans is totally unable to determine an election. It is determined by the Independents. The Obama administration provided the Republicans with an uncontested stage to spew their lies. I am not in the least surprised that Obama was so naive as to actually believe that he could gain the support of his enemies through bipartisanship. Just read his two books. It is a major theme. Could it be that being a minority has something to do with his desire to please everyone. Let's all get along. Compared to FDR he is a wimp. FDR welcomed the wealthy assholes hatred. It was what inspired him. Just admit it. This administration is a total failure and has by their timidity consigned every progressive piece of legislation to the dustbin. The next two years could very well result in the complete destruction of the middle class and a return to the conditions of vertual servitude for the working class that existed before the New Deal.

Damn right. President Obama sat on his hands while Harry Reid himmed and hawwed in the Senate and wasted an entire year on health care -- and all we got in the end was a massive giveaway to the insurance companies and a prohibition on negotiating prices with Big Pharma. Good job Sen. Reid! I'm soooo glad you were re-elected!

I pray that your last sentence does not come true but I see nothing stopping it. The Dems sure as hell did nothing to walk back any of the evil done by the previous administration.

"The Dems sure as hell did nothing to walk back any of the evil done by the previous administration."

Thats what many of us were expecting

the country wanted change..we didnt get it or anything close to it..including ending the phony war on terror...what will take its place in history is that millions of people had their hopes pinned on that hopey/changey thing...we got a smile..a beautiful big smile..

If it wasnt enough change they wouldnt have run right back to their old masters. It was once again an over represented older population who was sold on the idea that the scary black man was coming to take their health care/ guns/ social security.....

The public was sold a bill that it was too much scary socialist change and thats what was reflected in the polls not this fantasy you have that it wasnt enough. No person in their right mind would vote for what they wanted to get away from to try to help bring about the change they wanted.

Facing facts is the first step to regaining control but I don't have much hope of that as those who pushed the strategy that lost us this election, still cling to that strategy and point fingers anywhere but at the real causes.

and it is why this party is not winning.

If Obama had just fought for some things the left wanted, then they would not have abandoned him. This was squarely his fault. Here's how it goes: we fought to him elected, he did NOT fight for us.

1) Gitmo still open (Bagram expanding)
2) Took the public option off the table before he even started
3) Dragged his feet on DADT (check out this article http://thinkprogress.org/2009/07/30/hastings-dadt-white-house/) and appealing the court decision
4) Indefinite detention
5) Warrantless wiretapping
6) Arguing immunity FOR JOHN ASHCROFT
7) Hiring Tim Geithner, Robert Rubin, Larry Summers, Robert Gates
8) Stimulus package...too damn and too many tax cuts (too much "bipartisanship)

These are not issues where he fought and lost, these are issues where he didn't even fight. Did some good things come out of the first two years? Absolutely. Did some things happen that the GOP would never touch (and, in fact, didn't touch? Yes...see Lilly Ledbetter act). However, when you don't even fight, there is no case to be made that "we just need more people on 'our side'." Had Obama just tried for a public option; had he just tried harder on DADT (issuing a stop-loss to halt discharges while actually pushing for repeal himself); ending indefinite detention; actually stopping warrantless wiretapping or letting standing up for the rule of law where John Ashcroft is concerned, he could have made the case that he just needed more people "on our side." In the end, pointing out the foibles of the other guys (and make no mistake, they are awful), does not energize people. What energizes people is making the case why the should vote for you. Like it or not, Americans want that strong leader pointing in a direction. Obama, though capable, did not show that. I voted. Almost didn't (mostly because I don't trust the "new" optical scan machines in NY and because at the end of the day, the views Obama holds on issues that are important to me (indefinite detention, punishment of banks, warrantless wiretapping, etc.) Obama is Bush-lite...and not so light in many ways.

One last thing: this notion that a person, because of past beliefs, is not worth it now, is ridiculous. I was a GOPer...never again. I was a right-winger...never the hell again. Hell, I once wanted to work in finance...never, EVER again. To dismiss someone outright because of past views (think Robert Byrd) is something I would expect out of the lockstep right, not the left. I, for one, welcome conversion, and would not discount someone's current views based upon what they believed years ago.

Obama's administration and the Democratic party hold complete...COMPLETE!...responsibility for what happened yesterday. Had O and the Dems lived up to their campaign promises, had they not arrogantly alienated so many people--the very people who got him elected in the first place--with insulting pejoratives such as "enemies", "retards", "professional left"...

Had O and the Dems tried...REALLY TRIED...to bring our troops home and use all those trillions of dollars wasted on an illegal war for fixing the economy at home

Had O and the Dems not given sanctuary and cover to war criminals, Bush/Cheney...

Had O and the Dems not continued Bush' policies on torture and warrantless wiretapping...

Had O and the Dems not stacked their admin with holdovers from Bush's administration and put Blue Dogs (i.e., the DLC) in charge of his office...

Had 0 and the Dems passed a TRUE healthcare reform bill, one that truly benefits the American people and not the insurance companies...

Had O not given Wall Street and Goldman Sachs our looted treasury on a silver platter...

Had 0 not appealed DADT and DOMA ...

Good god, the list goes on and on and on and on.

The "discontent" was fueled entirely by O and the Dems. The POLITICIANS are responsible for yesterday's election outcome. Period.

Nice try to deflect blame but...epic fail.

I couldn't agree with you more!

The rank and file Faux News mouthbreathers might not, but rest assured the ones in Washington do. Anyone with a brain can see that the DLC is just right wing "Democrats" trying to ride a Republican wave.

This part of his base is the future of the party, and was not courted and it cost them.

Research at the following link illustrates the voting pattern of the 18 - 29 age group. It is an eye opener. The success of Obama at the polls in 2008 was possible because the increase in participation of this group. The mid term 2010 setback was because this group did not vote, and can anyone blame them.

The wars and foreign policy are basically the same with only a change of venue, health care now requires them to buy insurance for something they don't need much of at their age, higher education costs have continued to rise above their means, their idealistic visions of constitutional liberties have not been restored to pre patriot act days, spiraling debt guarantees their own social nets will not be there for them in the future, etc.

From their perspective, their participation has only led to more of the same. Exactly what has changed, except less jobs? It is very hard for this age group to see any progress.

It is obvious from the statistics this age group is more liberal and votes left of center by a large margin, Yet, this age group was largely ignored by the press, the party, and the actions of the legislation passed. So they didn't show up and the red tide reclaimed much of the power they had lent to the system.

This is perhaps the greatest political blunder of the party, it didn't connect with a major element of its new found power, and its future.

In mid term 2006, the 18 -29 age group voted for the democratic candidate, 58% to 34%. In 2008 they voted 2 to 1 for Obama over McCain.

If much of this age group splinters into third party dreams, the democrats have little hope for congressional or executive branch recovery in 2012.

The numbers don't lie.

http://www.civicyouth.org/quick-facts/youth-voting/

but they might have if someone had been talking to them. It seems they got to WH and then forgot about those who put them there. People understood that it was the Bush admin. that caused the collapse of the economy and knew it couldn't be fixed overnight. But bailing out the criminals, doing little or nothing for the working class and all the other issues you raised which show little improvement, combined yes, could definitely cause a lot of disillusionment in those voters.

They weren't mobilized because I don't think they want the people involved, except to vote them into power. After that, they have better and more important people to talk to than the little people. That is the impression people are getting.

Republican and every compromise bill.

It worked for John Boehner. It can work for us. Thank you very much.

Repeating his simple-minded narratives about Obama is easier than listening and considering that he might be wrong.

I wonder what it would have been like for Obama to have an echo chamber on the left that cheered on his progressive statements and actions. Could it have worked for us like it worked for conservatives with Fox and talk radio? I guess we'll never know.

Could you name some so I can write it down?

Their way, in victory or in loss, or the highway.

To listen to.

"whiners" and "retards." This administration has managed to take all that goodwill in 2008 and turn it to shit. Now THAT'S talent!

Let's not look back.

the base's ideas "retarded" (such an enlightened term, btw) and whiners. And keep trying to "reach across the aisle" too. And make sure to keep people like Howard Dean relegated to outer Siberia and keep actively working against progressives in the primaries just so your candidates can lose their asses in the general. And by all means, never EVER learn ANYTHING from your failures. Just keep doing what you're doing, it's worked so well up to now. :eyes:

idea? You might have been able to say that if the Blue Dogs had retained their seats. Clearly people would rather have a real Repub. than a Repub in Dem clothing. And the base and independents drew a line in the sand as far as holding their noses and one, more time, voting for people who do not represent them. That idea has been worn out. It doesn't work, not for the people. They, the defeated Blue Dogs will do fine of course, they served their Corporate Masters well and will be richly rewarded. But voting for the lesser evil got us just that, evil on a slightly lesser scale. No more voting for evil, lesser or otherwise.

It's time now to try voting for what is right, not to score a win for the team who, when they win, keep all the goodies for themselves and worse, actually prevent the voters from enjoying the fruits of their labor.

I think it will be a long, long time before anyone ever again agrees to vote for Repubican with a 'D' after their name. I am interested to see the results when people are finally voting 'For' something rather than 'Against' something.

We tried it their way, not it's our turn.

Let's think this through. What is President Obama's number one priority? Getting himself re-elected to a 2nd term.

Now that we have those "evil Repods" in control of the House, are we really going to primary the Pres. out in 2012? If you ask me, that is the number one priority that WE should have for 2012.

Howard Dean in 2012. Let's get a REAL Democrat in office for a change!

Be still my beating heart!

etc, you have got to believe they got exactly what they wanted. That or they are incompetent and Obama has got to be replaced, the sooner the better by resignation or by primary.

Losses abound....too

who didn't turn out. As if there is some "excuse" to not vote, just because you aren't thrilled with the choice you have. As usual, this looks at the problem completely backwards -- the reason for low turnout is because of the people that didn't turn out (not anyone else).

A better question is, you sat back at home and didn't vote. How'd that work out for you?

As usual, people will learn the harsh consequences of their own apathy, and they will be back at the polls in droves sooner or later. It would have been nice if they came to the polls now, but sometimes hard and painful lessons have to be learned before people act rationally.

They are not mushy centrists who insult their constituents. They do not announce that they oppose the equality of millions due to vague religious practices, for example. They did not employ hate preachers to hate on my community, they did not call us names, they did not praise the Republicans as honest brokers.
The President kept calling the Republicans honest, then they's say he is a liar, and he'd call them honest brokers again. To be blunt, that was stupid. He seemed to be agreeing with them about him. He did not defend us, nor himself.
He's opposed to my family's basic human rights. As is Time Kaine.
Not all Democrats lost last night. Take a look at that and learn a lesson.

they above all should want to vote against the republicans. BUT when they were interviewed on TV they said they were staying away from the polls to teach the Democrats a lesson. Now that was stupidity. Even tho the Democrats in office could have fought harder for all things Democrat for the people, not voting meant, and it did, that the republicans would win. And the republicans winning will show people like the 99ers a lesson. It will show them that there is no chance in hell for their unemployment benefits to continue to get extended. It will show them that there is no chance in hell for jobs to be created. It will show them that jobs that are left in this country will still be outsourced, til the only jobs left are service jobs, which can't be outsourced. But if the republicans could, they would go also.

So by staying away from the polls what did the 99ers by not voting, TEACH US A LESSON, Hally lou jah....the gave the country back to the republicans.

I'm not sure that is correct.

I don't think that was the case.

Shouldn't our politicians actually have to DO the things that we want in order to keep their jobs? What has the congress done for the 99ers? Called them lazy. Called them whiners. Gave them rhetoric and glad-handing and harrumph, harrumph. But not one thin time to help them feed their families. Not one dime to help them avoid losing their homes. Not one dime for the 99ers.

It really sucks that the congressional Democrats lost this time around. But don't blame it on the people. Don't blame it on faithful Democratic voters who have been slapped down, called every dirty name in the book, and completely ignored by this administration and the congress. Maybe they're playing 11 dimensional chess but from down here in the dirt it looks like they didn't give a crap about the "little people" losing their homes, losing jobs, losing hope.

What goes around, comes around. Congress had an opportunity to bring back the WPA. But they didn't. They had a chance to expand the Job Corps to get the young people back to work at least. But they didn't. They had a chance to end the fraudulent practices on Wall Street. But they didn't. They had a chance to give Americans guaranteed health care (that a majority of Americans said they wanted, when the question was properly posed to them). But they didn't.

The bank bailout and the auto bailouts are the only thing that sticks in the minds of us little people scratching in the dirt for a spare morsel or two. Thanks for nothing.

instead of 99 weeks.

"But don't blame it on the people."

Why? Isn't it the fault of the people who didn't vote? Literally by definition? Why should we purposefully blind ourselves to the obvious truth?

If the 99ers thought that a Republican Congress would better serve their interests, then we'll just have to see how that works out for them. Anyone who didn't vote for Democrats is about to be taught a hard and painful lesson over the next several months and years.

None that I can see.

Look I see your point. Vote or your voice won't count on ANY issue and just because one issue didn't go your way you shouldn't stay home on election day. It's a good point. It's logical. All I'm saying is that when these millions of people are looking at the bills piling up and the eviction notices stapled to the door of their home I'm not sure they have any responsibility to think long term, to be dispassionate and vote for the same people that said no to them, ignored their urgent needs.

The congress loves pay to play. So now it's time to pay.

One of them is the extension of unemployment benefits beyond 26 weeks, which because of the House results, will likely be dead.

But even beyond unemployment benefits, there are plenty of other issues. If they really think that Republicans would better serve them on these other issues, they have the absolute right to enable Republicans, but they shouldn't come back and complain later when Republicans enact policy against their interests on these other issues that Democrats wouldn't have enacted.

is certainly worse than a party that doesn't.

Furthermore, they likely won't be homeless forever. Eventually, other issues will come back to the forefront. But by then, it will be too late to reverse the damage they caused, because 95%+ of incumbents generally win over and over in non-wave elections.

and START pushing Democrats in office to ACT LIKE FUCKING DEMOCRATS. The blame is squarely on THEIR shoulders, not on those of the millions who voted them into office two years ago then got kicked to the curb. Take some responsibility for a Change.

enable Republican candidates? That's backwards.

The apathetic liberals who stayed home and allowed Republicans to take over will be the ones who learn hard and painful lessons of the consequences of their actions. This is reality -- not an "attack."

The 99ers HAVE ALREADY LEARNED THEIR HARD LESSONS. The hard lessons they learned is that the Democratic congress has no backbone, was too frightened to enact something to help them put food on the table. When the Democratic congress critters were too focused on saving their own jobs to help struggling Americans you know there is a lesson for the rest of us in that as well.

Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs applies here. I'm sure that a lot of 99ers really care about Cap and Trade. But when their kids are going hungry and the Sheriff comes to evict them from the only home they've ever known what do you think their real priorities are right now?

The Democratic congress had ample opportunity to be proactive with the jobs problem. They had ample opportunity to bring back the WPA. But they didn't. They chose to have faith in the business community and the rich that all we needed to do was throw money at them, then the jobs would appear. Then when no jobs appeared in the first month, they did nothing. Then when no jobs appeared in the 2nd month, they did nothing. Ditto the 3rd month. Carry that out for the past 2 years. Sitting on their hands, rocking back and forth, mumbling that the free market and Capitalism would surely start working again. And it never did.

When month after month they were given clear evidence that businesses had no intention of creating jobs. American businesses have been sitting all this time on a pile of cash $2 Trillion Dollars high. That is enough to pay 20 million americans a salary of $50,000 annually, which would have put consumer demand into high gear (and since 70% of our economy is consumer driven it would make a lot of sense). But the administration sat on the sidelines and watched businesses continue to hoard their cash month after month with no jobs creation. And they did nothing.

When month after month they were given clear evidence that the Republicans had no intention of saying anything but "NO" on any legislation they propose that would actually move this country forward, would actually create large numbers of jobs. They did get someone on the Republican side did give Obama a different answer once when he said, "Hell NO you can't!" Hey now that's progress... And they did nothing.

Now people like you are castigating the hard working Americans who did their jobs and did them well but lost them because some poor bastard (or 10 year old child) in China will work for 50 cents a day? The MSM spouts the same old lie that the American worker has to "become competitive." How in hell are you going to be able to compete with 50 cents an hour labor? Will you volunteer to work for that? Tell me how that works out for you. And, in light of all this that the administration knew damn well was going on: they did nothing!

shocked with what's coming.

Just because it is bad now doesn't mean it can't get unimaginably worse. I'm not sure why this is so hard for you to understand. Similar people were saying there was no difference between Gore and Bush, it couldn't get any worse, etc etc etc. Bush's actions focused these peoples' minds like nothing else, and they all ran to the polls to vote for Kerry in 2004.

Maybe you don't understand that now, but you will eventually. No question.

That is a symptom of the problem in the Corporate States of America...

Everyone I know voted. I can only speak for my area but here goes:

CA-20: Blue Dog lost to a Real Republican.
CA-19: The Democrats ran NO campaign. None nada. Didn't even raise money for it. Why? Kane and his 6-state strategy. The Republicans retained the seat.

California Senate seat: Kept Boxer
California Governor: Flipped from R to D.

Your tactics are always the same, aren't they? Throw out a false premise and then work yourself up into a froth defending said false premise, then throwing out straw-men shrapnel, hoping something might stick.

For those of you who haven't yet read the Op's linked article, I urge you to read it. It's a lengthy read but well worth it.

vote. Yes some are just lazy, and others will tell you there is no difference in the parties. They are both corrupt to the core.

didn't win over the Independents, after all.

You can keep attacking the voters for noticing that your shit stinks just as bad as Republican shit. I don't think that strategy will win them over in '12, either.

The fault lies with the politicians, who employed a losing strategy. It's almost a tautology, but you apparently disagree with it.

If a burger joint goes out of business because they're putting motor oil on the burgers, do you blame the customers for not eating there?

We know that Independents who voted for Dems in 2008, approx. 19% of the vote, by almost the exact same %, did not vote for Dems this time. We also know that while Dems did vote for Dems, they did not put in any effort to help Blue Dogs eg, to get elected, nor did they donate to the Party the way they used to.

But I have seen nothing saying that the turnout was unusually low for Dems.

Who was it (famous quote) that said you will NEVER EVER beat republicans by trying to be more like them?!

I'm paraphrasing, but it goes something like "When give a choice between a Republican and a Democrat who acts like a Republican, Americans will pick the Republican every time."

That is the issue: the economy.
This is a serious recession. Congress and the WH should have figured that out and got to work.

The weakness of the Democratic caucus in the House should have been realized.

There was a majority of only 29. 29. The Senate is worse.

What happened? Dithering and forays into irrelevant matters.

When I saw this health care fiasco unfolding -and ignoring the economy -- I saw incompetent politics.

Once in a generation opportunity squandered, to appease corporate power and money.

That may very well be the sole purpose of the DLC.

With peple like you for an "ally" Obama does not need enemies -- he has you - all that he needs.


It is the ecomony stupid Got it cenk?

that Obama and Boehner could compromise and agree on? I got nothin'.

Imagine where would we be today if the Democrats had prosecuted the Bush cabal? It would have changed the whole complexion of this election.

to their waterboys/gals.while they should have been spending that money on their defense teams..dialogue should have been different as we restored decency and law to the equation..instead the rhetoric was amped on overdrive as we once again looked 'forward'

The poobahs in the Dem party and the most ardent supporters of the Dem party remind me of this dynamic found in abusive relationships.

No matter the case the poobahs will never accept responsibility for their abusive acts, they always have a rationale, and no matter the case it seems the supporters always return to the abusive relationship.

It's quite eerie.

Yes, it's quite disturbing. Like a victim of domestic violence, the abused Dem party are all too willing to find *good reasons* why they should have been beaten by Repubs, and fervently need to believe their abusers will *change* and stop beating them.

Even now I can hear them sobbing, "They love us, they really do! They just had a hard day/difficulty with the boss/money troubles and couldn't help themselves, they just snapped, but they'll never do it again! Really and truly! I know they've changed!"

Uh huh, riiiiiight.

The problem/solution is with the VOTER! Overly simplistic, yes. But, our message just wasn't effective in enough races this time. The facts are on our side but it appears that too many voters were in a state of "tell me more lies so I can forget about the truth".

He is right on this issue. Keep telling truth to power!

they had 8 years and destroyed everything they touched, why be nice to the murderer?

Your saying that if Obama/Dems just listened to you then everything would have been much better. The fact is that the Dems lost seats that they did not even loss in the 1994 election. Democrats lost gubernatorial races, state house and senate races, and other state wide races. Iowa voted out all 3 of the judges that ruled in favor of gay marriage. My state voted for a criminal for governor who bought the race(Rick "Lex Luthor" Scott). To blame all of this is on bipartisanship seems like a gross over simplification.

-Laelth

How did that glass half empty thing work out for you?

Cenk hasn't had much good to say about this admin since it started despite the list of things they did get done for america. You cant bash your own party for two years and then expect people to turn out for them. Stupidity ....Well we will see how that refusal to put the blame where it really lies with the republicans works out for us.

Dem's certainly didn't get as many sweeping changes as I would have liked but they had a complete blockage from the other side to deal with and the only way to retain the progress was to capitulate to the more conservative Dem's to keep them in line. Thats the truth not this bullshit Cenbks spewing and had he fought as hard to tell of the success this admin has had instead of ignoring it and only hammering them for perceived or even real shortcomings this election may have been different. Instead we have had a refusal in general by the majority of the main stream media including cenk to hold the puke accountable for their refusal to cooperate on anything in favor of 24/7 bitching about what we didn't get.

FU Cenk and FU Ed and FU main stream media for continuing to spew. I blame your non stop whiny bullshit for enabling the Pukes to walk away with a win because you couldn't be bothered to do anything but bitch for two years.

Cenk is correct on his assumption: bipartisanship WILL. NOT. WORK. There's a reason I have consequences in my classroom: with no consequences comes rotten, selfish behavior and chaos. Stop fucking apologizing for being a Democrat and slap them across the face! Let the cards fall where they may, dammit!

There can be no "bipartisanship" between fire and water. Fire does one thing, and water does another. That's the way the world works, which should have been obvious in kindergarten, but apparently is not at all clear to our leaders.

Unless, of course, one believes that maybe they are all in cahoots - which strikes me as less implausible than one might think.

I hope Obama learns very fast and doesn't get the putrid idea od trying to triangulate.

...look to be a rough ride. Judging by the president's past behavior, I don't have a lot of hope he'll start fighting back (or take a solid, liberal stance on much).

:scared:

Oh crap, he wasn't born here. Damn.

three words: Fifty State Strategy.

Cenk!

they shit all over America last night.

You can't have consensus with someone who has no conscience!

"Tax cuts always create jobs. always. Always. always."

that was a flyer sent out in my neck of the woods.

Unless those were the Bush tax cuts, during which the US lost millions of jobs as they were moved overseas.

The republicans we know by name can not be reasoned with. They see compromise as weakness!! They need to be cowed into submission, and then re-trained that the concessions they get, are because of the benevolence of Dems.

http://www.nytimes.com/cq/2006/11/08/cq_1916.html

Some choice quotes:

"Pelosi also said Democrats, despite complaining about years of unfair treatment by the majority GOP, 'are not about getting even' with Republicans."

"She said the GOP, which frequently excluded Democrats from conference committee hearings and often blocked attempts to introduce amendments, would not suffer similar treatment."

"She also extended an olive branch to Bush on the war in Iraq, saying she plans to work with him on a new plan but will not support the current strategy and supports beginning redeployment of troops by the end of the year."

"Pelosi also said she supports the idea of a bipartisan summit on the war."

Like the WH, Pelosi also had no problem ignoring the base of the party. They all want the approval of Wall St. It's like a contest between both parties. Who can get the Wall St. wish list checked off the most efficiently. Dems got them their Health Care Bill, Bush got them their wars, Dems are working on getting them their dream of attacking SS etc. etc.

I really don't think they are even aware of ordinary people. Except they feel irritated that we just don't see how you have to take care of the rich first, or why we are not satisfied with crumbs.

A right -winger posted on one of the blogs... "Hey Obama we got the keys back!" my response was: you only have the keys to the garage , Obama STILL has the keys to the house.

The Kool Aid flows, and the idjit chickens will vote for Col. Sanders.

eom

for Democratic Party Chair.

He could stop masquearding as a journalist and official be what he is; a politician. One I would support too.

has an actual "centrist" agenda that is more important to them than actually winning elections.

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We had them over the barrel coming into this administration when we were hearing them being called out of touch with reality and references to being in the wilderness. Then, our respectable leaders cowered and pleaded while having a majority.

I wish they had taken a page from W.'s book.

Bipartisanship with them was not only doomed to fail for the country, it also gave them more relevance than they deserved after what they got away with in the last 8.

Jon Stewart put it best in his talk with the President; What happened to the audacity and why are there so many remnants of the W. administration still there? He was being nice or he could also have asked why so many goldmanites still have so much influence.

I'm sure Obama was keeping his promise to Hillary when he went became the flag bearer for health care reform and he is correct, it is monumental. Its just bad timing and softness on the dem's part. Too bad, they are now running on the promise to reverse that bill.

Right now, Obama's approval rating is identical to both Clinton and Reagan's at the end of their second years. And much like Clinton and Reagan, Obama was elected during a severe economic downturn, and suffered heavy losses in the midterms elections because of that. And guess what? The economy recovered after both midterms, and both won second terms by a landslide. The more I look at Obama's position, the more convinced I am he will be reelected. He's an intelligent guy, and I think he is perfectly capable of getting a second term. Just look at what he has done for his first two years as president. He's made more progress on healthcare reform than any other president in history. He bailed out both GM and Chrysler, therefore saving hundreds of thousands of jobs from being axed. He saved the economy, which is now growing again (albeit modestly) rather than contracting at a record-breaking 6.4 percent when he took office. He made us go from losing about 800,000 payrolls a month to having healthy private sector growth for nine (soon to be ten) months in a row. And finally, he has created more private jobs so far this year than George Bush did during his entire eight-year period as president. If Obama can do exactly as he as has done for the past two years, then things will be better than ever in 2012. Despite that he has disappointed us in some aspects, I KNOW he can get reelected, and I will continue to be optimistic about 2012. I think in the next presidential election, he'll absolutely DESTROY his Republican opponent (Not unlike how Reagan won in 1984), whoever it may be, and with that, the Tea Party will collapse, the deficit will be greatly reduced, and America will be headed towards it's greatest economic expansion ever, greater even than the one that was seen during the Clinton years. Now, I could be wrong. The Republicans could very well win in 2012 (Hopefully that won't happen, because if it does, the economy may never recover). But our goal is possible! We just need to continue to have faith, be optimistic, tell everyone we know to vote in the next presidential election, and if we do it right, the Democrats will once again have the upper hand, and America will be back on the path to prosperity.

Welcome to DU, KeyserSoze87! It's great to have you with us! :toast:

This website is awesome!

:bounce:

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118026116?refCatId=14

:evilgrin:

:dunce:

For all the reasons I listed above.

Just sayin...

:shrug:

There's no sense making excuses for a president experiencing midterm blues. It is historical to the point of being predictable.

Americans generally disfavor one party holding both branches of elected government for an extended period of time, and practically every president in recent history who held a majority in congress during his midterm lost that majority in a midterm election.

What happened yesterday is not beyond the pale of normative American politics. It wasn't that Obama wasn't liberal enough or that we didn't fight hard enough to push legislation through congress, but that moderate-conservative independent voters in traditionally conservative states and districts went back to voting for the Republicans, most likely because they feel Obama is too liberal, or too tough on business.

Whatever.

Traditionally Democratic states and districts held onto their Democratic candidates, and traditionally swing/moderate regions didn't see the "mandates" of the red states.


Take it in stride because we all know what happened to the GOP between 1995 and 1996. They won a congressional majority and became so arrogant as to block virtually every piece of legislation Bill Clinton put on the table. What did they get out of it? A disgusted cadre of independent-moderate voters and another four years of William Jefferson Clinton.

Life goes on. This shit ain't over. The GOP hasn't won. So cheer the fuck up already and get back to plugging away like we always do.

I worked like hell to elect him, but a year from now if it's business as usual - look for a true progressive to challenge him in 2012.

:thumbsup:

"We had a Republican strategist on our show tonight and with incredibly honesty he admitted that the idea of "bipartisanship" is something that only benefits Republicans because they never really engage in it and they get the Democrats to do what they want (you can watch it here at the 6:39-7:48 mark). How stupid do you have to be to keep falling into that trap?

I guess as stupid as Mark Penn, who of course predictably calls for Obama to do just that -- again -- for the next two years. But Penn isn't stupid (the Democrats aren't stupid either, they're just supposed to be the patsies that lose to the Republicans in this big corporate game that's being played on us). "

the democrats are not stupid they are patsies, they do not want liberals in power, they hail to corporations, the left and the right are different only in that the democrats are republican lite, but the democrats DO NOT work for the little people, at least not most democrats in dc