OKLAHOMA: Westboro Church Gets Tires Slashed, Locals Refuse To Perform Repairs

OKLAHOMA: Westboro Church Gets Tires Slashed, Locals Refuse To Perform Repairs

Members of Westboro Baptist Church returned to their minivan to find its tires slashed after their picket of the funeral of a McAlester, Oklahoma soldier. And every shop in town refused to make any repairs.

As their minivan slowly hobbled away on two flat tires, with a McAlester police car following behind, the protesters were unable to find anyone in town who would repair their vehicle, according to police. The minivan finally pulled over several blocks away in a shopping center parking lot, where AAA was called. A flatbed service truck arrived and loaded up the minivan. Assistant Police Chief Darrell Miller said the minivan was taken to Walmart for repairs. Even before the protesters discovered their damaged tires, they faced off with a massive crowd of jeering and taunting counterprotesters at Third Street and Washington Avenue, two blocks from the First Baptist Church, where the soldier's funeral was held. Miller estimated that crowd to number nearly 1,000 people, and they not only drowned out the Westboro protesters with jeers, but with raucous chants of "USA, USA." A few motorcyclists interspersed among the crowd also revved up their engines to muffle the protests.

http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2010/11/oklahoma-westboro-church-gets-tires.html

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :woohoo: :woohoo: :applause: :applause:

Fight em with speech, not problematic legislation!

Not going to comment on the tire thing. I am sure it was an accident :)

Walmart fucks it up again.

:kick:

As much as I dislike WBC, they have the right to free speech, and speech isn't really free unless one can speak with no possibility of repercussions of any kind, not even from private individuals or businesses (especially not businesses!) Just that the speech is legal and the government can't do anything about it, isn't good enough.
The tire-slashers (if caught) AND all the businessmen that refused to treat the WBC members as they would any other customers need to be severely punished, up to and including forced closure of their businesses.
We should be as outraged over the businessmen's behavior here as we would if it had been a Democratic Party van driving home from a Democratic rally. I wouldn't put it past Oklahoma businessmen to act similarly in such a case, anyways.

and maybe anyone who wants to protest the WBCactions should be able to attend their regular services and pray on the problem. Out loud of course. Or at least congregate outside their entrance and disrupt everything and so,and so on. That's a bunch of BS and not what free speech was meant to be. If the so called "free speech" is found to be legal then it's tit for tat. And then somebody comes up with the idea that to stop all the bullshit and put the matter to rest you burn the church down {either one depending on which side you're on]. And then where does it stop? So much for the value of free speech at all costs.

needed their asses kicked years ago like many others...and much more.fuck em.

The businesses had every right to refuse service to the WBC. And quite frankly, if I had owned one of the businesses in question, I would have refused to aid the WBC.

If you've got $500 and some free time, well, hey.

Just the money.

...for any reason ... if a business chooses to do this .... it is his "right"
you can not make me take your money and fix anything ... all I have to say
is I am too busy and I can't fit you in ... maybe in 2 or 3 weeks if you
want to leave it ....

I agree about the tire slashing .. it is a crime and if caught they should
be charged ...

you have a right to speak but you don't have a right to be heard ....
and the goverment can not silance you ...
this wasn't the goverment .... it was other individuals who have
the same right to counter protest as you do to protest ...

K & R

and anyone else who looks or talks funny. This is merica, spreak engrish.

America is a great nation of many nationalities, customs, and ways of life.

I'm very sorry to find someone here who would discriminate or act differently towards someone because of looks or accent.

I mean really.

sarcasm without a little emoticon.

the tone of that sentence. DU still lacks that ability. ;)

A business owner would have to be stupid enough to state that it was for that reason or have an established pattern of refusing people who were part of a protected group for it to be illegal.

OTOH, refusing because you find the WBC group to be pond scum isn't a civil rights violation.

violate law in doing so ... sorri ... I should have been clearer ....

No. Having to deal with consequences is not a limitation to free speech.

Businesses have a right to refuse service, but depending on the reasons, may have to deal with the consequences of bad publicity.

Tire slashing is vandalism and should be dealt with as such. A fine and maybe some community service.

It seems the Westoboro Church members were making a statement which was offensive and controversial to people there and the business people were making a reply. As for the tire slashers - speech sometimes has consequences and if they believe strongly enough in what they're saying they should accept that. I don't like things like that but the WBC has been very heartless toward people in their most tragic moments - What can be worse than losing a child or loved one? I've been to Oklahoma quite a bit and people are actually very nice...They may be politically contrary to everything I believe but I can't say anyone was ever anything other than very polite.

Let's compare your own statements.

"they have the right to free speech, and speech isn't really free unless one can speak with no possibility of repercussions of any kind"
followed by
"all the businessmen that refused to treat the WBC members as they would any other customers need to be severely punished, up to and including forced closure of their businesses."

That is the pinnacle of "fucking idiotic" right there.

"We should be as outraged over the businessmen's behavior here as we would if it had been a Democratic Party van driving home from a Democratic rally."
Actually with the current climate on DU, such behavior would win more cheers than jeers. However following your point, anyone arguing that they should be severely punished and stripped of their businesses would still be as goddamned dumb as you are right now. Especially if the argument is paired with a plea for freedom of speech.

You - and those stupid shits kissing nazi ass in another thread - need to learn that it's not just the assholes who you love so dearly that have the right to speech. You also need to bone up on what rights the right to free speech actually entails; here's a hint, you aren't protected from the repercussions of the stupid shit you say.

equally.

no quarantee in free speech you wont be drowned out.

silly and made up position

Business refusing to service someone is not a violation of the customer's free speech.

Slashing tires is a crime, yes; refusing to fix said tires is not.

What a fucking load of crap you spew - close down the business because they refused service? It wasn't done on racial or other protected discriminatory grounds.

I'm sorry, but I think you're wasting your time coming to DU to try to "convert" us.

Owner: Lets see... I can fit you in sometime around February...

Fred Fuckhead Phelps : But theres no one here... Why cant you fix it now?

Owner : Inventories...

______

Tire slashers should pay a fine if caught if it's a misdemeanor...

every business that refuses to deal with the hatemongers. They did the right thing by refusing to aid these vile scum.

flag burning. Close businesses? Corporations also have a right to free speech now days, so I guess refusing to fix their tires would be their form of free speech.

If they're someone else's tires, it's property damage, a misdemeanor.

Please leave your car where I can access it freely, OK?

give us ALL a fucking break. And as for the state smear at the end. Way to turn the positive into a negative with crafty bullshit lies.

How many homophobes did YOU shout down this weekend?

Running the horrible people out of town IS the american way. They do have the right to free speech and we have the right to hate their fucking guts and judge them by their words.

to free speech by refusing them service, not so much? Got it.

You have the right to be an asshole. I have the right to tell you that you are an asshole and the right not to deal with your bullshit in any manner.

Your idea of punishing someone for not helping these assholes is just insane. Severely punished for not helping a bunch of assholes that have children carry signs that says 'God Hates Fags'? Forced closure of their business - WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU? Seriously, I wonder about the intelligence of people sometimes.

Free speech flows both ways, my friend. Just because the government cannot arrest these assholes, does not mean I have to turn a blind eye to this crap.


Forced closing of businesses....sheesh.

I REALLY just hope that you are trolling...

refuse. This is a beautiful story of how to deal with bigoted assholes when the government is largely toothless. Great job to all those in Oklahoma who participated! Let it be a lesson for how to deal with these fuckers in every town!

What makes you think did?

DU has the right to refuse to let them.

Same with the repair businesses. Civics class would be helpful for you in this regard.

"and speech isn't really free unless one can speak with no possibility of repercussions of any kind, not even from private individuals or businesses"

The GOVERNMENT can make no laws abridging freedom of speech. The PEOPLE are free to react any LAWFUL way they see fit.

You have the right to say whatever you want. I have the right to refuse any association with you. That's the way freedom works.

The people responding to WBC are exercising their own free speech rights. Why should their rights be infringed, while WBC's rights are protected?

...they should punish them... I would recommend a gentle slap on the wrist, myself.

As for the businesses who declined to fix the slashed tires, they should be rewarded with an increase in business from all of the sane citizens in their city. Remember, many retail businesses have signs that say they reserve the right to refuse service to anyone. Now I don't know about you, but I think that the WBC qualifies as someone who deserves to be refused service.

And before you start in about civil rights and the like, yes it is true, the right to refuse service does not mean you can refuse to serve someone because they are black, or Catholic, or what have you. However, it seems to me that a business has the right to refuse service to WBC on the grounds that they publicly engage in hate speech. At that point it is not about who they are, but what they do. They have a right to their free speech; they do not have a right to be free of all consequences for engaging in hate speech.

"punish the businesses"? This is not about religion, it's not about race, it's not about free speech. SOMEONE has to draw a line SOMEPLACE. Businesses can refuse service to anyone not wearing a shirt or shoes. Why can't they refuse service to a group of people whose sole purpose is to punish already grief-stricken families of soldiers who have been killed? If a business decides they don't want to inject themselves into the mess WBC has created for themselves, I stand with them.

What kind of argument is that? By refusing to work on the minivan, business owners were exercising (1) their rights as private business owners (they have no obligation to do work for anyone) and (2) they exercised their right to free speech by silently voicing their disapproval by refusing to work on the van. I have absolutely NO problem with that and I'm surprised that anyone does. The tire-slashing is a different issue entirely but your business issue is total bullshit.

then WBC, those OK businesses and the private individuals that protested against WBC can say or do anything they want to do. Here, the tire slashing was against the law. Refusing to do business with WBC was not, nor was a gathering of protestors on the other side of the issue.

There is no guarantee anywhere that I know of that says one is guaranteed the right to speak his/her mind without any repercussions. Where did that idea come from? Free speech means you get to express yourself (so long as no laws are broken in the process), and expression comes in many forms. For both sides. What one side sees as a "repercussion" is the other side's way of expressing their opinion. What law do you think the businesses broke for which they should be "severely punished"?

The ability to speak freely in our society is by its nature very messy, since there are usually more than a few opinions out there and many many ways to get one's point of view across - which includes not doing business with people with whose actions or words you disagree. We've made exceptions in a few areas (civil rights/businesses), but there is no exception I know of which makes anything that those OK businesses did illegal.

WBC's speech is protected only from government interference (1st amendment, which only addresses gov vs. the individual, not an individual vs. another individuls free speech rights), and they have rights OTHER than free speech that address the property damage to their rig.

What "right" does WBC specifically that would allow them to force a private business to give them service in this situation

This is one time my state got it right!

I'm sorry, I just can't get outraged by what those businesses did. In my view WBC is the enemy, and if the ground were to open up tomorrow and swallow the bastards, I wouldn't care.

That's a little drastic isn't it, calling for punishment the forced closure of those businesses.

I don't think the Democratic Party has automotive fleet, which makes this a moot point. Besides, why would you compare a Democratic Rally with what the WBC did, it isn't even close to being the same thing!

Were these people (I use the term loosely) in Canada, their hate speech would land them in jail. And so it should be in this country. Any expression or actions that target a minority with the intent to provoke animus or violence is hate speech, which is indefensible.

I applaud the businesses and individuals who stood up to the bigotry and hatred these "people" spew.

if so, can I walk in dressed as a nazi yelling "death to the Jews" and expect service? free speech and all.

no one ever said free speech didn't have repercussions. only that those repercussions couldn't come from the government.

to refuse service to anyone?

They do have every right to say what they want to say, and people have every right to say what they want to in opposition. Yes, the slashing of tires was definitely over the line, but you also reap what you sow, and they've been sowing the seeds of bad karma for a long time. As far as the businesses refusing to help them, would you welcome someone you found distasteful into your business? Would you welcome a known child molester, rapist, mass murderer, or someone like that?
While it may seem discriminatory in a lot of cases, reserving the right to refuse service to anyone is also a right that people have, and if I were a repair shop owner, I would politely decline to help them as well. Forcing a business to close because they prefer not to help people who sow the seeds of hate and intolerance is way overreacting to this situation.

NT

The businessmen who refused to provide aid to WBC should be punished for what exactly?
All nusinesses reserve the right to refuse service to people and as long as their refusal is not breaking the law (refusing service to people based on color, etc) then they are making a decision that is in the best interest of their business.

The businessmen have a right to refuse service to such disreputable people. I wouldn't want them on my property either.

The locals have the right to boycott businesses who refuse service to people the locals like.

You know those signs in businesses that say things along the lines of "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone". That's not illegal.

"speech isn't really free unless one can speak with no possibility of repercussions of any kind, not even from private individuals"

For starters, what about slander?

If you were to stand on a public street corner shouting truly vulgar and obscene insults to anyone within earshot, you would likely be arrested for creating a disturbance....or something.

What Fred and his followers do is obscene, vulgar, insulting and anti-social.

They should be thankful they aren't met with baseball bats, which is what would happen if the cops weren't there to protect them.

Free speech is not to be infringed BY THE GOVERNMENT. However, free citizens are empowered to express their scorn for malignant individuals and collections of individuals. Obloquy is an essential control mechanism in a civil society.

It's not a mere matter of opinion that WBC is despicable and the Democratic Party is not. The Democratic party operates well within the norms of organizational behavior, and WBC does not.

It's part of the evil that WBC spawns that vandalism of their tires occurred. Society is degraded even further, as are the vandals. There's no way to justify the act.

But once it's done, it's very hard to summon up any tears.

these crazy mfkers have been doing this for years. I have been waiting for them to be stomped forever..

:applause:

The good ole boys in Crawford had slashed the tires of Cindy Sheehan's supporters?

Would your joy in hearing about tire slashing be the same?

Given the despicable acts these fanatics have performed, they're damn lucky that this is the worst retaliation they've suffered.

You are either being a troll or simply naive and unintelligent.

The tire slashing was a criminal act. I am not cheering that - I (and most here) am cheering the businesses that refused to help these cretins.

However, I would not shed a single tear if the entire WBC perished in a fiery crash. Not one single tear. For any of them.

The prospects guard the bikes. Haven't you ever seen "Sons of Anarchy"? lol

God was watching over their van.

He/She probably doesn't much care for Mr. Phelps, either.

Slashers should pay a fine for their misdemeanor...

If the local tire shop wants to refuse service then that is his right as a shop owner.

...then she would have deserved it.

There would have been howls long and loud. Which they didn't want. Which is why they didn't do it.

And what makes you think the good ole boys in Crawford weren't on the side of the gold star mother?

Sid

Big thumbs up to the businesses that didn't want to deal with Westboro scum.

God must have neglected to instruct them on some of these finer points.

nobody has kicked the shit out of these idiots by now...not that I would advocate that, just that it wouldn't surprise me if it happened. They are lucky that their tires are all that were slashed.

Every adult male member of the "church" is a lawyer.

but I wouldn't shed any tears over it, either.

my only son is a Marine. If these asshats came to his funeral I may not care too much about any penalty.

OK... so it's OK to refuse service to a group of hateful bigots.
Got it.
Cheered and encouraged.
Got it.


I own a restaurant in Kentucky.
I don't want n*gg*rs and f*gg*ts smelling up my establishment, and offending my good Christian white people customers. I am allowed to do this, correct?

According to (much of) DU, this would be fine...

I guess that some people revel in their 'I am more progressive than you' crap.

But thank you for playing.

"But thank you for playing."

In other words, you just want to make a shallow dismissal and then wallow in your own superiority.

Got it...

...wallow in my own superiority.

However, your initial post was so egregiously wrong and uneducated that I did not see a need to respond with much other than snark.

If you posted honestly and did not see the difference - then I was correct in my snark.

If you can pick out a particular person for a particular reason that is not racist, sexist, homophobic, etc., and say "THAT person I will not serve", then you're okay.


It's the difference between not serving (insert ethnic group here) people and not serving the (insert ethnic group here) person that ran out on his bill last month.



"I don't serve Christians" versus "I'm not serving these six people that, incidently, are Christian".

...to show that they were discriminated against for their religion.
And they probably will, and they'll probably win.

Of course, the "religion" they are practicing is sick and twisted, but isn't that what "rights" are all about?

I'm sure Fred and his gaggle of lawyers are prepping the case as we speak.

"We were practicing our first amendment rights as part of freely practicing our religion, which includes the notion as per the bible that god hates fags. A crime was committed against us, and nobody would help us because of our religion..."

Basically, in Fred's mind, he was discriminated against because of his religion, and my point was that DU rah-rah's that as long is it fits into the DU "side" of things.

And you can bet your sweet patootie that this is exactly the kind of thing that WBC goes looking for...

:rofl:

Public business can refuse anyone for any reason EXCEPT based on race, gender or religion.

You can refuse service to someone because hey are an asshole, or if you just don't like them.

Thank you...

of course. unless reasonable accommodations cannot be made. I've worked as a bouncer, I refused service to people all the time, because I didn't like the vibe they gave off, because they were jerks, because I didn't like their hats. whatever. it was, in fact, my JOB to discriminate based often entirely on my own personal opinion of people. perfectly legal.

In some cases, business owners can refuse service if a person is not wearing a shirt and shoes or formal clothes or if they are underage. They can also refuse service if you have pets with you and those pets are not service pets.

There are TONS of reasons businesses can refuse service.

If you refuse service to someone based on his or her race, you are in violation of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Someone who owns a restaurant should be aware of the law.

In any case, your analogy is flawed. So you see no difference between someone BEING African American, or gay, and someone choosing to arrive at a military funeral to scream abuse at a grieving family?

"According to (much of) DU this would be fine...

Again, no.

this is a matter of people not wanting to service someone they don't like due to that person's ACTIONS. And their actions are deplorable even if it is their right. It is the right of that business to decide whether they want to do business base upon that person's behavior towards others.

Please do not conflate bigotry with this, you distort its meaning and further misinfo.

Skin color and sexual orientation are generally not the result of choices.

What about religion?

Some religions don't permit that particular choice.

Discrimination based on religion is explicitly prohibited by federal law, BTW. But being an asshole is not considered a religion.

...is explicitly prohibited by federal law..."

Exactly!
And I'll wager that before the week is out, WBC has lawsuits against those tire places that wouldn't sell them tires, saying that they were discriminated against based on their religion.

That's been my entire, awkwardly made point here.

:hi:

But the judge who takes the case might not know that.

"Your honor, we were discriminated against because of our religion."

"No, your honor. We refused them service because they are assholes."

"This court finds that you were not discriminated on the basis of religion. Further this court finds that you are indeed assholes. Dismissed."

since having a car, I think it's pretty damned funny.

Inconvenient, sure--but it's the city's way of telling those folks to go fuck themselves.

As gratifying as it would be to inconvenience the WBC crazies, I'd also desire for them to be on the road out of my town as fast as possible.

I would have taken their money.



Lemme see, two used tires at six hundred dollars apiece, another four hundred for mounting and balancing...yep, seems about right.



Oh, you don't like my prices?

Buh-bye.

But the funny thing was there were about 10-15 of them and it looked like about 200 people on the other side of the road in an anti-protest.

They were just in Omaha a few days ago.

are so wise ans spirited as the OK townspeople were--better than "Mythbusters!"

Maybe I'll drive to Oklahoma and give my business to one of those shops in McAlester. Wish it were feasible.

Everywhere I went to get the damage fixed they said, "We don't serve long hair in here."

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

:nopity:

You have a right to protest US soldiers' funerals with "God Hates Fags" signs and I have a right to say "FUCK YOU!!!" when you come around to my shop wanting me to repair the vandalism that rendered your vehicle inoperable.

You reap what you sow...

:cry:

I'd do pleased to indulge in both. As for negative publicity directed at the mechanics who refused to help, what a non-issue. They'd have my business and you know they'd have yours.

bags need more of this kind of treatment.

God also hates AC/DC and cigs (fags in the UK)..

falls under the protection of free speech. This was not a rally but a funeral. Am really glad the wonderful people of that town decided enough was enough and that no fights broke out. However I am worried that the next time could be different. Why aren't the police able to protect the families grieving from these kinds of attacks during their personal time of burial. Seems like infringement to me.

"your freedom to swing your fists stops at the tip of my nose, and that one person’s liberty must not be empowered to disturb another person’s peace.

http://lonsberry.com/writings.cfm?story=2975&go=4

$10,000 per tire (new)
or
$5000.00 per tire (used)

$500 Lug nut removal fee (per lug)

$1000 tire carrying fee

$5000 tire mounting and balancing fee

$100 plastic valve stem caps (per cap)

Those pesky Westboro folks can sure cause a good ole Sooner to lose their focus on the REAL bad guys!

Good on ya, McAlester!

:toast:

Thanks for this story, WillParkinson. K&R.

The Phelps are almost entirely lawyers, and they will sue these places and probably win. This is how the Phelps' make there money for their pickets.

those punks from Westboro Baptist Church drove over 250 miles (one way) to make
the family and friends of that poor dead soldier feel worse on the day of his funeral ....
although it is breaking the law to slash tires if that was my brother or friend being
buried that day I could have very easily slashed some tires.

WBC tries to "fuck w/ that tiger in the bushes" and if they got bit I have little sympathy
for them.

SOB's changed their tires.

Boycott Wal-mart. Always the low road.

at last.

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :fistbump: :fistbump: :fistbump: :fistbump: :fistbump: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: