Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

I'd like to share something with you regarding the times we live in.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 12:25 PM
Original message
I'd like to share something with you regarding the times we live in.
I tell myself all the time, "Things have never been this bad before."

I am then forced to remind myself, "Things could get worse." They often do.

And then I came across this passage this morning, which was written many years ago.

===

Now, what? While the new wave flowered, Lenny Bruce was hounded to death by the cops. For "obscenity." Thirty thousand people (according to Paul Krassner) are serving time in the jails of this vast democracy on marijuana charges, and the world we have to live in is controlled by a stupid thug from Texas. A vicious liar, with the ugliest family in Christendom...mean Okies feeling honored by the cheap indulgence of a George Hamilton, a stinking animal ridiculed even in Hollywood. And California, "the most progressive state," elects a governor straight out of a George Grosz painting, a political freak in every sense of the word except California politics...Ronnie Reagan, the White Hope of the West.

Jesus, no wonder Lionel had a stroke. What a nightmare it must have been for him to see the honest rebellion that came out of World War Two taken over by a witless phony like Warhol...The Expanding Plastic Inevitable, Lights, Noise, Love the Bomb! And then to see a bedrock madman like Ginsberg copping out with tolerance poems and the same sort of swill that normally comes from the Vatican. Kerouac hiding out with his "mere" on Long Island or maybe St. Petersburg...Kennedy with his head blown off and Nixon back from the dead, running wild in the power vacuum of Johnson's hopeless bullshit...and of course Reagan, the new dean of Berkeley. Progress Marches On, courtesy, as always, of General Electric...with sporadic assists from Ford, GM, ATT, Lockheed and Hoover's FBI.

- "The Ultimate Free Lancer," by Dr. Hunter S. Thompson, November 1967

===

That was written forty-three years ago, possibly to the day. I was struck by how much of that two-paragraph passage sounds so eerily familiar. A "stupid thug from Texas" cuts too close to the bone, especially given George's recent return to the public prints.

The passage helped to remind me: yes, it's bad now. It's been bad before, too. In so many ways, there's nothing new going on right now.

This fight has been going on for a long, long time. The names change, but the ugliness has remained fully intact.

I knew this, but I guess I needed a reminder.

Thanks, Doc.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Drale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. The old Chinese curse has come true
"May you live in interesting times."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
2. K&R...thanks for the reminder, Will
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blue neen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
3. I've recently been reading "Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail".
The similarities to today are amazing. It's so eerie, that sometimes it's difficult to read...like we haved learned nothing. Then again, it seems that some of the same thugs are still involved.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. I have a book of NYT front pages that keeps things in perspective
It's a big coffee table book, covering many decades. Lord almighty some terrible, terrible things have happened that we have mostly forgotten. Congressmen killed on the floor of the House! It would be a horror at any time, and yet most Americans have never heard about it. And so on.

Thanks for the quote. That kind of stuff would make a useful compilation book. American history, seen through the filter of what we now think about the quoted and what we think about what they are saying. IOW, what we currently think about Hunter S. Thompson AND what we currently think about Lyndon Johnson color what we think about Thompson's assessment of LBJ. Veddy interesting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
5. Will, on a side note, get a load of this. Brad Pitt's real name is William Bradley Pitt
thought you'de get a kick out of that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Oh, I know.
The douche never returns my calls.

;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
7. Well, well, well...
"We've been through this before..."

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Really, Will?!

Reagan's reign of terror and fiscal irresponsibility brought a new and heretofore unforeseen level of economic disaster into our lives. Reagan's two terms of 'administration' resulted in a tidal wave of government spending (remember, please, these were OUR tax dollars) that eclipsed all the prior presidents' spending, combined! This unfettered hedonism has continued--virtually unabated, despite Clinton's feeble efforts--for the two decades since the Corporate Megalomaniacs installed their vaunted St. Ronnie. Meanwhile, the vast 'unwashed masses' continue to resist the cognitive dissonance of admitting that our economic behaviors are a threat to our entire planet.

Our nation can blame the hedonists at the top of the Ponzi pyramid for the ongoing disintegration of our global economy, but we've (almost) all been drinking the "I can be rich, too!" koolaid. The outcome of our hubris remains to be seen, but we've NEVER experienced anything like this, Will.

We have met the enemy, and he is us. Walt Kelly
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Agree. We saw something close to what we see now in the era preceding the Great Depression.
The difference is there is no longer a strong left with any power to push back.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
8. i've been reading
a peoples history of the united states. it affords perspective and helps me not to panic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Perhaps,
you might consider LaFeber's "The American Age" or Thaddeus Russells's "A Renegade History of the United States." While much might be said for Zinn's optimistic tapestry, more could be granted to an honest, balanced screed. We've yet to experience that.

“Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it.” Edmund Burke


(Also, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. Most of us have been exposed to a rather sanitized and biased 'history' of this nation, and few of us have had the opportunity to learn otherwise. AND, my friends from other countries have independently reported to me that America is perceived by many in their countries as the Big Bully in the Global Sandbox--with most Americans perceived as greedy, thoughtless, narcissistic WATBs almost to a one.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
placton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. that is such a great book -
I am gonna re-read it this winter
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bigmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
9. Reading just a little about the Palmer raids helped me through the Bush years.
Things have been worse.

Question - when was a Congressman killed on the floor of the House? Or are you referring to the beating of Sumner?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CRH Donating Member (671 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
10. The words are similiar but, ...
never have we been closer to the total demise of the new deal. During those 43 years the republican's effectiveness of destroying all regulation of economy, degrading social civil rights, as well as the use of excessive deficits to dismantle social safety nets and social security, has compromised like never before, the hope for future generations. With present deficits and the national debt, never before has the future been so smothered.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
11. Things have been much, much worse.
They haven't brought out the big guns yet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlancheSplanchnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
12. I feel overwhelmed by the calamity of the times too, very much so -- and yet
it dawned on me recently that we are aware of so much more of what's going on. That's thanks to the good old webtubes, where we can know about every piece of perfidy occurring, everywhere, instantly.

Being so surrounded by information, swimming in the latest outrage of the moment, aware of legislators' every move from moment to moment, of course it is easy to feel like there has never been any situation as bad as this.

Creeps, jerks and evil people have always been around, but news and awareness of their activities was much more circumscribed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Joe Fields Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
15. Why do you think Thompson shot himself?


Not because things are bad now, but they could always be worse. But rather because he knew that things are much worse now, and there is no fucking way they will ever get better!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. hmm...
I struggle with envisioning my Kevorkian moment...

I've come to the conclusion that I will only exercise that option if I'm in unbearable pain (which could happen at any time, since I don't have insurance, and I have "multiple presenting problems"). I guess I'll have to make it to Oregon, somehow.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
placton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
16. and there was the time when the Plague
killed 1/3 to 1/2 of Europe, so we got that goin' for us!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
18. ttt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
the redcoat Donating Member (510 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
19. It depresses me to think of all the people
who, 40 years ago, dreamed of progress that was not so far off, energized by the equality movements.

Today, with the possibility of universal healthcare, legalized marijuana, and gays fighting to be treated as equals, it saddens me to think the people back then might have seen the same prospects, and been just as hopeful as we are now, and yet look where we are 40 years later.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
20. Maybe the drugs were better then ...
but my distinct impression is that it's much worse now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
21. Will...You are becoming an "Old Soul" ......morphing as
I've known you....and keeping a "torch flame" for those who "remember other times."

It's "YOUR TURN" to be the "LEADERS".....and KEEP ON KEEPING ON. You and Your AGE are the LINK to the PAST AND FUTURE! I'm so glad to see you take your place with honor.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. (((HUG)))
:hug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
johnnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
22. I always get a kick out of the doom and gloom
It amazes me how short some people's memories are. Sadly it works well with so many people that as long as doom and gloom is pushed down their throats it makes it easy to keep people in line.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. And,
what, by your standards, is 'the doom and gloom'?

I had friends call me a 'doom and gloomer' when I began voicing concerns about thrifts in the early 80s. I did extensive research and left that industry because of my concerns. When I left, I told my accusatory friends that I wasn't thinking 'doom and gloom,' but that my research led me to conclude that something major was about to happen. Six months later, the S&Ls went belly up, and my accusers were calling me, wishing they'd left when I did.

Those of us who've made the effort to be knowledgeable about history and politics can make informed statements about what we've learned--and, consequently, informed decisions about what we'll be doing--without being 'doom and gloomers.'

As importantly, those among us who are 'doom and glooming' about what's coming down the pike need all the love and support we can extend to them. Depression is our nation's epidemic du jour, yet almost no one mentions THAT particular elephant under the rug.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #26
36. To many people these days, Doom and Gloom is the thought that they may need to reinvest...
There is a sad, myopic attitude in America these days where most everyone feels that they can just exploit whatever resource they can without ever reinvesting some energy back into it, whatever it may be.

Whether it is credit cards, education, the home, political order, food production or whatever. Many in America have been led to belieive that they can extract all they want without eventually performing rudimentary maintenance, which is a fact of life. This applies not only to infrastructure, but to the health of the individual and by extension, the country as a whole.

Doom for many is the knowledge that they may have to paint their home before it rots to pieces, so instead of dealing with it, they ignore it until it is too late and have to deal with a problem for 4 times the cost.

Also, there has been a concerted effort to diminish the role of History in our educational system, simply because history is so dangerous for the charlatans to keep repeating the same old shit as generations shift.

People can call us Doom and Gloomers, but the reality is that we have seen first hand the techniques used to control entire populations and have come to terms with the fact that they really don't care about the well being of the country, but more about the well being of their control mechanisms. Most people get a headache when they actually try to wrap their thought patterns around this notion, so they woukld rather go ostrich and continue to exist in the "comfort zone" without even thinking about the alternatives.

We can change the world if we just decide to do so. All we have to do is become unpredictable and unresponsive to the fear and manipulation imposed by the current social structures, and become less compliant to a system that is edging closer and closer to corporate fascism.

Too many people are slaves to fiat money, and when people can have careers yanked out from under them on a whim from a Corporation, then we can never have any justice, honesty or truth. This is the mechanism that controls the government today, and since Americans are so infatuated with success as being defined as a good job, this method of control will continue to subvert ethics.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
24. I'm not sure that makes it less depressing.
In case that's what you're thinking.

I've been reading the hyper depressing graphic novel The Nightly News by Jonathan Hickman. Starts out asserting how weak protesters are to actually change anything. Goes on to a violent revenge fantasy.

But anyway, it got me thinking about how things ever do get changed. How civil rights were changed, how gay rights have changed, etc, etc. How did those things come about? Are those methods even effective anymore? And the fact that the changes have never really been complete - what does that mean. And why the hell are we in two wars nobody wants, but are apathetic about nonetheless?


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
27. Will "Gonzo" Pitt...
:-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Joe Fields Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
28. No, Will, it's not just that it's been bad before,
and that there is nothing new going on here. There is a lot new going on, and the amp has been turned up to eleven. This country is like a snowball rolling down a hill, getting larger and larger, picking up everything that gets in its path, destroying all and gaining speed.

I don't believe in Pollyanna.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Journeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
29. "Eadem, sed aliter." History’s motto. . . .
The same things differently.

- Schopenhauer
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 03:35 AM
Response to Original message
30. As Jon Stewart said, "We live in bad times, not end times"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 05:51 AM
Response to Original message
31. Hunter's always good for a nice shocking dose of reality
whether you liked it or not - brutal truth - the way it should be. Well, that which he felt safe saying - which REALLY makes ya wonder....

"If I'd written all the truth I knew for the past ten years, about 600 people - including me - would be rotting in prison cells from Rio to Seattle today. Absolute truth is a very rare and dangerous commodity in the context of professional journalism. "
Hunter S. Thompson

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 07:12 AM
Response to Original message
32. Several years ago a president from Texas
took office under unusual circumstances. He then proceeded to start a war predicated on lies..........
Some things never change.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
disillusioned73 Donating Member (963 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
33. Good stuff...
makes one wonder what far right newly elected Govenor will come to power in 10+ years and once again bring the country to it's knees economically 25+ years later...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
34. There will always be gravity.
I used to look for an answer. Now I'm just looking to find a way to live with what is part of the mess we call life.

Somewhere along the line one of the genes mutated, or something.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
35. Remember, just this year, we in California made full circle
from Reagan back to Jerry Brown. Most of the West Coast and Hawaii went bluer than ever in this election. These are signs of a shift.

If you look at this list of California governors, you will realize what a big shift it is from right to left.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Governors_of_California

If I have counted correctly, since 1883, that is 127 years, we have had 89 years of Republican governors, 32 years of Democratic governors and 6 years of a Republican/Progressive governor.

So, the election of a Democrat -- a very liberal Democrat who is well known to Californians, is a big, big thing.

Note that California elected Republican governors every cycle between 1903 and 1939 in spite of the Great Depression.

Yet, now, in our utter desperation with the inability of our government to respond flexibly to a new economic reality and our frustration with the oil industry and those who would destroy our fragile environment just to con us into giving them our money, California voted Democratic.

This is a big thing. Here in California, we feel and see global warming.

My spring flowers are coming up. To some extent that is normal. But I remember a time when my crocus came up in January and February. My crocus are up now and the flower buds, while not open, are getting close to opening. This is very, very early. That is not the only change we see.

Our desert is sensitive to climate change. It is frightening. California voted Democratic and rejected attempts by big oil to slow our switch to renewable energy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dreamnightwind Donating Member (863 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
37. They knew it then, we know it now
For me your post illustrates how necessary our fight against these forces is. The travesties don't stop, they continue and get worse. The longer they have their hands on this country, the more difficult it will be to wrest it back from them, and the more damaged will be the country (and the world) if we ever get it back.

Those that could see what was going on, like Hunter S., were correct. What is happening today is verification. It won't end until we prosecute the criminals who lead us unnecessarily into war after war, who jail harmless citizens needlessly, who serve empire over country, who favor superstition and authoritarianism over enlightenment.

This feeling that things are out of control and that the wrong forces are running things is unfortunately accurate. They knew it then, we know it now. Thanks for reminding us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
38. Well there are some differences.
It is a kinder gentler kind of ugliness now.
For instance, it is no longer necessary to blow the head off a president....they just capture him in a bubble and manipulate him to do what they want.
And then there is the constant entertainment that keeps most of us so busy being entertained we don't really know how we are being screwed.
And there is the fear machine keeping us from even wanting to go out in that hostile world out their...better to stay in that familiar place that is safe....and the want machine making us want that new I pad or a Big Mac....better not say anything you could loose that job and then where would you get your Big Mac?
To late to R but a kick will have to do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dreamnightwind Donating Member (863 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Don't forget the drones
Edited on Wed Nov-17-10 11:30 PM by dreamnightwind
Good post.

I think unmanned remote control death planes is a kinder and gentler way to rid the state of its enemies. No mess, no saying you're sorry, no personal risk at all. What could be better? Progress. :sarcasm: though god knows the tag should not be needed
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-10 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
40. One word. Foreclosures. It's worse now, economically...Politically....
I have to keep reminding people around here that
GEORGE WALLACE won a DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY here in
1972.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GOPBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-10 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
41. There have been plenty of worse times.
The great depression was a worse time; that ended just in time for WWII, which was also a worse time. WWI was a worse time. Actually every single day from the dawn of our Republic until 1932 was worse: no SS, no unemployment, no minimum wage, few labor laws, few environmental laws. We didn't get Medicare and Medicaid until the mid-1960s. This is just to trace the history of this country.

Thinking more globally, and taking the date of your letter, I'll claim that in no time or place prior to the year of this letter, 1967, were things as good as they are now. Compared to any other time period, we have a higher life expectancy, far more prosperity (even during our down times, such as now), far more (and cheaper) food, lower infant mortality rate, and I could go on and on and on. By any measure, life has been getting steadily better for humans since the first homo sapien sapiens roamed Africa.

The only caveat here is that, in the rest of the developed world, life is generally better than it is here in the United States. This is true, but it shouldn't cloud the fact that even here, things have been much worse than this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat May 04th 2024, 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC