Time to forgive Vick is here

(edited for copyright purposes-proud patriot Moderator Democratic Underground)

I'm just not sure what people want Michael Vick to do.

Quit football? Return to prison? Drown himself in the same lake where he and his crew used to drown dogs? Would he be forgiven then?

Now that Vick is having an eye-bugging season for the Philadelphia Eagles -- 11 touchdowns, zero interceptions, four starts, four wins, one "Monday Night Football" jersey sent to the Pro Football Hall of Fame -- it seems only to have torqued off dog lovers worse.

"If it were up to me, they would have locked him up and thrown away the key," blogged Sumo Pop recently.

As if 18 months in Leavenworth, and six more in a halfway house, aren't punishment enough.

"Michael Vick should give half of his … salary to animal rights groups," Liz McGowin wrote on PETA.org.

As if losing $100 million and three years in the prime of his career wasn't steep enough.

"Michael Vick is a Sociopathic Dog-Torturing, Dog-Maiming, Dog-Drowning, Dog-Electrocuting Pile of S---," somebody posted on Vick's Twitter page Thursday. Vick's Twitter page was running about half against him this week -- until it was frozen for "suspicious activity."

As if being judged and humiliated in front of the world isn't shame enough.

The man is contrite. He is humbled. He is chastened. He has already given 24 speeches for the Humane Society. He has dismissed his old friends, has even run from them when they show up. What else is he supposed to do? Move into a dog kennel himself?
<snip>


http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=5824801

the poor dogs murdered at his bloody hands never well

Hasn't Charles Manson suffered enough?

;-)

:popcorn:

He has his health, wealth and a job.

It won't make a tinkers damn in this world
If I forgive him or not.

Why should anybody care whether you or I "forgive" Michael Vick and why is so important to them that we do?

don't care about this issue enough to consider forgiving worth my time

and he doesn't need anybody to, but plenty apparently do. He's not gonna get everybody feeling sorry for him. ain't gonna happen. He's gonna have to settle for what he's got, poor devil.

...as all animal abusers and/or collectors do.

And I just can't forgive him for this:




Yes... that's one of his dogs.

Yep, but dont forget.

Sub-human, despicable, all the words you can find, I believe.
I also believe in REDEMPTION.

And anyone who doesn't needs to take a long look at the principles of the democratic movement.

did that dog recover?

It's amazing how many of them have been rehabilitated and are now leading their lives in loving homes.

you see in his/her face are medical corrective measures. I would, hopefully, assume, they had assessed this poor baby and determined he/she could be repaired and saved.

:kick: & U

The sick motherfucker deserves the same fate he sentenced all those animals to.

;-)

from time to time.
:puke:

But yeah, that would be a step in the right direction.

;)

And I say fuck Michael Vick! He's still a piece of shit!

1)Quit football?

2) Return to prison?

3)Drown himself in the same lake where he and his crew used to drown dogs?

I'll take door number 3, Bob.

Especially after seeing the pic posted above.

Fuck you Vick - you inhumane piece of shit.

What the fascination is with grown men playing children's games is beyond me. Millions of dollars to catch a ball..

Frankly, if Vick had been an ordinary man, working an ordinary job, and had been caught doing what he was doing, he would still be in jail. But the power of being a football star kept him out of the worst of it. Sure, he lost tens of millions. Guess what, due to the power of being a football star, he is going to make tens of millions more.

If it were you or I who got tagged with such a crime, we wouldn't, in all likelihood, be able to get our old job back. In fact, given the nature of the job market, we would be lucky to get any job at all. Instead, this man is celebrated by millions, all is forgiven, and in reality, he hasn't taken that much of a hit, either personally or professionally.

This is simply one more example of our two tiered justice system in this country. One form of justice for the rich and/or famous, and another, much more severe form of justice for the rest of us.

He was the first person in US history to be charged with what he was charged with for dog fighting and animal cruelty and it was all because of his status.

A Cottonwood, Alabama man has been sentenced to 102 years in prison after a jury found him guilty of dog fighting related charges.

Snukals yesterday ordered Robinson, 33, to spend 10 years behind bars for his convictions on three felonies and one misdemeanor related to a dogfighting operation at his South Richmond home.

Today, four of the Missouri men arrested received their sentences.

Teddy Kiriakidis, 50, and Ronald Creach, 34, who pleaded guilty to conspiracy, were sentenced to 18 months in federal prison. Michael Morgan, 38, and Robert Hackman, 56, who pleaded guilty to conspiracy and selling animals for fighting, were sentenced to one year in prison.

EAST ST. LOUIS, Ill. (AP) -- Seven southwestern Illinois men who were among more than two dozen suspects swept up last summer in the country's largest dogfighting crackdown have been ordered to spend at least a year in federal prison.

These four examples took all of two minutes to find and post...

Sentencing for crimes depends significantly on priors. If Vick had had priors for example for what he did, he would have gotten a much more serious penalty.

This reminds me of the people who post misleading stats about people "jailed for smoking pot" and fail to mention the 4 prior felony convictions, etc. The sentence that Vick got, CONSIDERING his relatively "clean record" was within the normal range

you can deal with BS, as is your wont

You started with a flat out lie and, when that was pointed out, tried to cover with your supposition.

So, while you're basking in your 'reality' you might want to look at the correlations between $, celebrity, and the dispensing of "justice".

Please cite what "lie" I posted.

I expect an apology. That would be nice...

Somebody named SweetieD posted that. I don't appreciate being called a liar, but apparently your beef is with somebody else. Fwiw, I agree with you that that statement is INCORRECT. It is not a "lie" unless the poster who posted it KNEW it was incorrect. Otherwise, it's an error or a false statement. Lie implies the person KNEW of the falsehood. We all ALL believe some stuff that isn't true. I agree with you that even if Vick was a nobody he almost certainly would have received actual prison time, so I agree with you that that poster was incorrect. Regardles...

I'll take that as an apology :)

else's bogus argument doesn't legitimize yours.

Michael Vick remains an unrepentant piece of shit that should still be in prison.

I worked for the Humane Society back in the mid-eighties and know of over a dozen cases personally where the criminals did serious time for dog fighting, ten years plus.

Not to mention the fact that they let Vick slide on gambling and drug charges, something that they would never, ever let an ordinary perp do.

It should have been more but there are very few successfully prosecuted animal cruelty cases with any real jail-time and fines. Trust me, I know. I used to work for the organization with an acronym for a name. This was a huge breakthrough for animal cruelty. That said, dude served his time. He should be given the same opportunities any ex-offender is given to live their lives right. He just so happens to be good at something that puts him in the limelight and pays a shit ton of money. Maybe I'm too liberal for the likes in this thread but I say if the guy isn't killing/abusing any more dogs, then something good is coming from all this. Even better is the fact that dog fighting will forever be linked to Vick and publicity surrounding him, which means that deplorable action will almost always been spoken about and in the limelight too.

:eyes:

He's a sack of shit and he should always be reminded of that. No sympathy.

gives a dog's ass about whether or not I forgive him, or anyone else for that matter. He's got his millions; my forgiveness is irrelevant to him.

I just don't normally pay attention to it. If you want to forgive him, feel free. I'll pass.

As soon as he gives half of his pay to animal shelters, for however long he continues to play professional sports.

When he pays for and does a PSA calling for harsher punishment for animal abusers, and the end to puppy mills.

He spends his time off the field at local animal shelters in the Philadelphia area.



And even then, I would have to think about it.

Fuck you too, you overpaid, self-important piece of shit!

of hell.

done. I don't understand how people can harbor anger to him forever.

View my picture in my post at No. 9 and you'll understand why so many still harbor anger toward him.

are convicted and do your time, I hope you still feel the same way. I hope you expect no one to ever forgive you. I hope you expect to be a pariah for the rest of your life. I hope that no one ever gives you the benefit of the doubt and allows you to have another chance.

However, the recidivism rate for animal abusers/hoarders is 100 percent. If he wasn't being watched 24/7, he'd be doing it again.

But until he does, he has paid the price society demanded. What more is there to do?


And the recidivism rate is 100%? Can you source that?

with different motives which have different implications for rehabilitation, recovery and future danger to society.

If I kill someone in self-defense, it's not the same as killing someone for money and neither is the same as killing someone because I get off on it.

Certain crimes say something about the state of your soul. Raping kids is one. Torturing dogs is another. That kind of fundamental rottenness at the core of your being is not the kind of thing that generally goes away after sitting in a cell for a few years. And it's not like prisons can point to a fantastic track record of developing empathy in inmates.

If Vick was a paedophile and served a few years and paid his fine and did some volunteer work, would you be happy to give him the benefit of the doubt around your kids since he'd "paid his debt to society"?

I'm fairly confident that I am not the kind of person who would ever torture an animal. But if by some chance I did, I would understand if other people took it as a warning about the kind of person that I fundamentally am even if I had already made efforts to make amends.

And honestly, do you think Vick gives a shit if people hate him? He's making his "fuck you" money. $20 says we'll be hearing more from him on the criminal justice front in the future.

You may be right, but what more is there to do. He did pay the price society demanded of him, right or wrong.

Not everyone can (or should) be fully integrated into society. If you've shown yourself to be the kind of person who is cruel, lacks empathy and/or enjoys causing pain then maybe you need to accept that you will never be fully trusted or accepted in general society again.

He paid the legal price of sitting in a cell for a few years and paying a fine. But I don't think it's unreasonable to expect him to continue to pay a social price on top of that.

That horrifies me! It truly horrifies me!

Did you see what he did to his dog? WTF??

fwiw. I acknowledge that he has done his time, and I wish him the best of luck in the future. As a convicted felon, he cannot exercise certain rights but other than that, he can. If he ever reoffends, I hope he gets an EXTREMELY stiff sentence.

And I don't believe such people should be part of society. They shouldn't be given the opportunity to "reoffend."

If they can't be a part of society? Life in prison? Banishment to a penal colony?

What is your list of crimes that are so heinous, that the offender should permanently lose his/her freedom? Do they stay in prison forever? DO they ever get a chance at redemption?

Plenty of people do horrible things to animals in the name of sport. Fishing?

How many people asked for the "horrors" ad to be taken off the main page here on DU.

Vick seems to have turned things around. It seems to be the progressive thing to realize he did his time.

And before anyone hops on my back, I've been an ethical vegetarian for animal rights and environmental reasons for over 20 years. I get how bad mistreatment of animals is. I just don't see this as being worse than the majority of hunters and fishers out there that kill animals for sport. Sorry.

the same as allowing dogs to be repeatedly tortured/fought, and then putting jumper cables on their ears, hooking them up to a battery and throwing them in a swimming pool to die.

michael vick repeatedly engaged in torture, and enjoyed it, had fun doing it and watching it. he is a sick fuck. he has "paid his debt to society" but the price was not high enough. and he can NEVER, EVER erase what he did to those dogs and their suffering.

How about bow hunting? It can take a deer an hour to die and be found in that "sport"?
How about fishing? Do you have a problem with ripping a hook out of a fish and tossing the fish, in pain, into a live well for hours?
How about lobster? Do you think it is painless for the lobster to be tossed live into a boiling pot of water?

I am not arguing that what Vick did was wonderful. I am saying that, as a society, we draw a line to conveniently place ourselves outside the line and others across it. Vick tortured animals. So do hunters and fishermen. So do those that eat lobster, veal, foie gras, and a great number of other animal products.

I still don't like him personally, I didn't want him, I was aghast when the Birds signed him but goddamn he is playing some of the best QB I've ever seen. I can cheer for the jersey without cheering for the name on the back. I'll bet a lot of Steeler fans can appreciate the situation.

Yup.

--a Steeler fan

All I ever saw from him was that he was sorry he got caught. There is a difference.

Until then, he's an animal abuser, and always will be. And when you speak of bullying, there is no bigger bully in my book than someone who abuses a poor, helpless, already-beaten-down animal.

I'm free to hate the man for his actions for as long as I please. I openly judge him for the torture he inflicted on animals who couldn't defend themselves. I don't care how many "oops, I got caught so here's my pro-dog speech now!" moments he PR person pencils in. I don't care about the money he lost.

I certainly won't give him credit for the new laws that were passed regarding dog fighting. Things are better after a guy who can play with a ball was caught torturing animals because new laws have passed? Seriously? Well things got better when child labor laws were created too, but that doesn't mean I should go ahead and applaud the assholes who enslaved and exploited kids.

The system realized it needed new laws because Vick was so goddamn cruel. That's nothing to be proud of. I see nothing to forgive.

As for me, I don't give a shit what LeBron James, Michael Jordan or Tom Brady think about any subject.

Vick maimed, tortured and electrocuted dogs for his own entertainment. Any of those dogs would have given their life for Vick in protection. After all, he was their master. What's more, he's never actually shown a bit of remorse for his actions. He's sorry he got caught. And such a humanitarian! Why, 30 new laws were enacted because people were so sickened by reading and seeing the photos of his handiwork.

I wonder if his apologists would be quite as supportive if he was a ditch digger or worked at a minimum-wage job, instead of spending his days on a football field. It's comical that the author of the article conveniently forgets to mention that Vick initially approached PETA as a spokesperson; they asked him to undergo psychological testing, which he refused.

In the meantime, gosh, isn't it time we forgave OJ Simpson, too? All he did was kill two people. It's been a long time. Shouldn't he be entitled to enjoy his life, too?

He did an evil thing and he is a scumbag for what he did. But, he served his time and I think that he should be able to get on with his life, consistent with the life other convicted felons live (can't carry a gun, etc.)

From all external indications, he's never had one minute of counseling for his actions. It's been proven there's a short trip and a definite link from abusing animals to abusing humans, and Vick has children.

Oh, he's "getting on with his life", all right. He's pissed off that he doesn't get the lucrative endor$ements other NFL players get, and well, that's just too damn bad. He's free to make a living in another venue that's not quite so public. Maybe he should have thought about that before he tortured 43 dogs. Anyone who owns a dog should NEVER allow this man to forget his crimes.

43 dogs survived his torture. 4 were deemed to be damaged beyond hope and put down. Who knows how many he and his friends electrocuted, drowned, how many died "fighting," how many dogs, cats and other animals died as training "bait."

and I can draw a distinction between his "paying his debt" which is his duty to our society imposed by the legal system, and paying his moral debt. The latter may never be satisfied. That's purely from the eye of the beholder. The former has been satisfied. I hope he leads a productive life.

Anyone that cruel doesn't deserve consideration, let alone forgiveness. The asshat didn't even care enough to apologize... he's just moving on... fuck that noise.

I won't let someone that fucking senseless and cruel kiss my ass.

I hope the cruel ass motherfucker rots in hell for his cruelty, after the long life of poverty and being ostracized as he deserves.

i'm sorry, but that's an awesome line!!

"...in the neck!"

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

As I've said. There is nothing more vicious than miserable old hippies.

Sorry, but you and your hero-worshipping ilk don't get to tell me how to think or feel. Just go back to watching the sociopath play with the ball, ok?

I really don't give a shit what Vick's fans "think".

... or the eyes of all the dogs I help rescue/foster and the other ones who have to be put down because being used in fighting or as bait has either made them unadoptable or because of injuries.

NEVER.

May he burn in hell for eternity.

The NFL by letting him play is saying basically that they don't care what kind of scum you are if you make them money.

The ultimate irony would be if Philly won the SB with Vick leading them. Then the NFL gets to celebrate a torturer for the next 8 months until the next season.

As far as Vick himself, I have no forgiveness for anyone who has achieved that level of cruelty. I honestly wish people who did such things would kill themselves and spare the rest of us their evil presences. If he wants to seek redemption let him do so, but don't think for a moment I'm going to believe in a redemption that comes from success on a pro football field.

What he did was evil--no room for forgiveness for that kind of crime.

I don't care if he spends the rest of his life cleaning shit out of shelter kennels as a public gesture of contrition, he's still a sick fuck.

is utterly, completely, and inherently unable to feel contrition or change in any significant or measurable way. He is filth. He is scum. He is a complete waste of valuable fucking oxygen.

Fuck Michael Vick.

I don't care if he's talented at football - people who profit from the suffering of other living beings are sick.

I'll have to pass.

sports asshole who butchered dogs.

Rick Reilly and the rest of the Michael Vick apologists can go fuck themselves. Thanks for asking, though. I'll continue to root for any defensive line playing against him, and I'll laugh myself to sleep the night he gets taken off the field on a stretcher.

I'd say the same to anyone cheering on the "reformed" rapists and players convicted of other violent crimes. Maybe some of them at least regret what they did and who they hurt. Vick couldn't give a shit about those dogs. Fuck him.

:applause:

I have four rescues, myself. None were fighting dogs, but we suspect - and have almost near medical certainty - that one of them was sexual abused by a human male. :puke:

He's very aggressive toward my husband when I'm laying down on the couch or the bed. And that's the only time. Like he's protective of me only then. Any thoughts for positive behavior changes?

Without having met the dog, I can only suggest the usual fixes. Be the pack leader (both of you). If he's aggressive towards your husband, you both need to correct him. Not physically, but verbally. Remember that you have to do it WHEN the dog does it. He has to equate the punishment with his action. You also have to be consistent, as you would be with a child. Aggression brought on by such horrible events are tough to fix, believe me. But, it can be done.

Thanks for rescuing so many, and toughing it out with a hard case!

It's probably just going to take time. He was abused. This is just a relatively new thing - something that happened when I had to sleep on the couch while recovering from a surgery (I had to stay propped up). I rescued him, so I assume he thinks he was rescuing me.

And, I'm able to rescue so many because of my veterinarian. I grew up with her husband and they let me pay on time for some of the very expensive treatment we've had to spend on correcting some of this little guy's physical issues (she's the one who thinks he was sexually abused.)

I wish I had some words of wisdom to help your abused pup. Since I don't, I just want to applaud you for your rescues. :applause:

His people are demanding we "forgive" him (as if he gives a fuck) so he can commence earning endorsement $$$.

And the asses of many, many nonprogressives who love their dogs.

So if a guy can sing great, he gets a free pass too?
How about a guy who's a great doctor?
How about an Indy 500 winner?

would it be okay for them to torture/kill helpless animals too?

some things cannot be UNdone...or forgiven..

I haven't, and I don't see anyone else.
The story rielly wrote doesn't.

I really do think that there is such a thing as redemption.

He was put in prison. Punished in the way our society punishes.

If you can grasp an idea, then you shouldn't be able to comment on the issue.

I'd like to see some concrete evidence that he's changed. He has a right to earn a living in his chosen profession. I have a right not to be a fan.

I hope some player who loves his dogs snaps his spine.

...

The answer, you scum, is because you did something utterly heartless and unforgivable, and you need to spend the rest of your life paying for it. I'd love to put you in the ring to be ripped up by the dogs you used to torture, but that would be unfair to the dogs.


Edit to add: I'm replying to Vick's question, not the OP writer!

I'm hoping for a career ending injury.

Not PC, but I don't give a fuck!

Biker's Old Lady

I don't need to forgive, I don't need to like him, I don't need to do anything.

When he killed those dogs, my obligation to do or think anything positive or helpful of him ended.

:thumbsdown:

As another poster said, if he ever starts showing true remorse for what he did to those dogs, then maybe I'll forgive him.

But for now, he can fuck off.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-plaschke-20101117,0,5163298.column?page=1

While Michael Vick was screaming toward the sky, a black pit bull named Mel was standing quietly by a door.

On this night, like many other nights, Mel was waiting for his owners to take him outside, but he couldn't alert them with a bark. He doesn't bark. He won't bark. The bark has been beaten out of him.

While Michael Vick was running for glory, Mel was cowering toward a wall.

Every time the 4-year-old dog meets a stranger, he goes into convulsions. He staggers back into a wall for protection. He lowers his face and tries to hide. New faces are not new friends, but old terrors.

While Michael Vick was officially outracing his past Monday night, one of the dogs he abused cannot.

"Some people wonder, are we ever going to let Michael Vick get beyond all this?" said Richard Hunter, who owns Mel. "I tell them, let's let Mel decide that. When he stops shaking, maybe then we can talk."


*************

Picture of Mel at link, and description of him being used as a bait dog.

:grr:

I'm not.

Fuck him and may he be ripped slowly to shreds by hungry pit bulls.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-plaschke-20101117,0,5163298.column

While Michael Vick was screaming toward the sky, a black pit bull named Mel was standing quietly by a door.

On this night, like many other nights, Mel was waiting for his owners to take him outside, but he couldn't alert them with a bark. He doesn't bark. He won't bark. The bark has been beaten out of him.

While Michael Vick was running for glory, Mel was cowering toward a wall.

Every time the 4-year-old dog meets a stranger, he goes into convulsions. He staggers back into a wall for protection. He lowers his face and tries to hide. New faces are not new friends, but old terrors.

...more...

sounds like he could give a shit about what he did...his murderous thuggery should haunt him for the rest of the days...and if it does, ONLY THEN does he deserve forgiveness.

He seems sincere in his apologies. Donovan McNabb vouches for him.

I can't quite bring myself to be a fan, but I'm okay with his success this season.

Whether you agree or disagree, Vick paid the price society demanded of him. That is a fact. His debt is paid in full.

What is there to forgive?

the guy is a murderous thugs, says he's sorry, and everything is just fine and dandy? FUCK THAT!

and your point is valid, HOWEVER, he DID pay the price society demanded of him.

What more is to be done?

And I see your point, and I do not disagree with you, but he DID pay the price society demanded of him.

What more can be done?

for the rest of his miserable so-called "working" life.

He can pay Best Friends and the other organization that took in his dogs for the work they did and continue to do for the dogs that survived his hell, and other dogs they rescue from similar hells. Also can pay the brave, incredibly loving people who adopted the dogs that were deemed adoptable. They took on a huge task -- read the article by the adopter who does not forgive him. They went through extensive screening, training -- including having a pro live in their house for an extended period of time -- to ensure those dogs got appropriate care that would continue their healing. They should be reimbursed as well, for every added expense.

Again, for the rest of his life.

And he can spend his time off volunteering in shelters cleaning up dog poop and cat litter pans, scrubbing floors and doing the shittiest of the shit work.

Only then will I personally consider him atoning for his despicable acts.

Or he can spend an eternity burning in hell for all I care.

Are there any other crimes where you think the offender should pay for their crime for the rest of their life?

Crimes where the victims pay for the rest of their lives. And note that I said *voluntarily.*

These are crimes of morality. I'm talking about atonement, not sentencing.

He is a psychopath and/or sociopath. He didn't just torture dogs. He tortured them for pleasure. Do you understand the difference in these crimes?

Do you understand the difference in the mind of somebody who commits these crimes? He totally lacks empathy. Short of torturing *him* to where he just might *get* the sufferin that he inflicted on another sentient being, he should pay for the rest of his life.

But he won't. For the very reason that I stated above. He is a psychopath or sociopath. He lacks *empathy.* Maybe a problem with his brain wiring, who knows. But unless and until he indicates that he understands what he did, there is a very good chance he will do it again. Maybe this time to children.

Would *that* make a difference to you?

Your points are are valid, and you may be right, but our society does not work the way you seem to want it to. That is the fact of the matter.

Whether you agree or not, Vick paid the price demanded of him. Until our system of justice changes, that is the way it is. You want to add punitive damages to his sentence, based on emotion. Our system does not allow for emotion to be a factor (usually), and for good reason. It keeps sentencing fair and even handed based on the crime, not our feelings about the crime.

Look, don't get me wrong. What he did is reprehensible and cannot be forgotten, but we have to move on now. He paid the price and we have other problems to deal with.

some of us will continue to write about his victims, who will suffer for a lifetime.

I spend my time and energy where I see fit. Before you tell me it's time for me to move on, I suggest you take read the thread entitled "Vick's dogs." Then you can tell me to move on, but you know what. I'll *still* put my time and energy where I see fit.

More power to you.

Thanks for your forgiving perspective. You and Renew should converse some more on the value of forgiving torturers.

I never even mentioned the word forgiveness.

I stated that he did pay the price society demanded of him. What more is there to do?

Legal debts and social debts are two entirely separate things. That GWB hasn't been charged with war crimes doesn't mean he ain't a war criminal.

and I certainly don't begrudge him the opp to play in the NFL or do whatever else he wants, consistent with the fact that as a convicted felon he is somewhat limited.

Somewhat limited? The guy is making zillions...I want him to live in penury for the rest of his sorry disgusting life.
fuck him 9 ways to Sunday.

like voting and./or carrying a firearm. I will clarify - he's paid his criminal debt. Whether he has paid his moral debt is entirely within the eye of the beholder.

should result in the person committing them to never be able to make money in the future? Is it just dog killing? Pedophiles? Rape? Assault? Stalking?

Just seems like a VERY unprogressive attitude to demand that once the payment society has deemed he should make has been paid that we want the rest of his life to be spent in extreme poverty.

The ride where we go clean up after some POS dogfighter who got his jollies off on torturing dogs. Come along and bandage wounds, stop the bleeding, show them attention and love, and the really, really best part, having to make the tough call about which dogs live, and which dogs are too far gone to live.

Come take that ride with me sometime, and tell me the man has paid his debt. He may have paid his debt to society, but he hasn't paid his debt to dogs.

They are banished forever in the minds of some. The Michael Vick haters are clowns and sociopaths, the same people who laugh about prison rape. Useless, bloodthirsty idiots.

I wish him as miserable a life as possible.

I think Iggles owners and players who stand by him are as low as whale shit, looking to benefit from his presence.

Apart from that, I don't care a damned bit about Michael Vick.

This is one of the repulsive posts I've ever read on here. No way in HELL ANYONE gets any pass from me nor SHOULD they to be so fucking INHUMAN to grossly torture animals the way this piece of excement did. A person is SICK in the head to torture animals for any reason. It wasn't just the dog fighting, it was what he did to the dogs who didn't "perform" well... SICK DEMENTED TORTURE TO DEATH when he could have far more easily taken them out in the yard and put a bullet in their heads. Anyone that TORTURES an animal in order to kill it painfully and slowly when it would be easier to kill them quickly ENJOYS it.

And what's worse is the ONLY reason anyone wants to give him a pass on what he did is because of what he does for a living. If he washed cars or waited tables or pushed papers around a desk not a soul would want him to breathe another breath of free air.

the right wing has been painting for years. How dare we act human and show disgust for a person who allowed dogs to be tortured and killed for a frickin' sport he made money off of.

Disgusting

I won't watch him play. That's my choice. Why does anyone care about my choice?

and yeah, what he did was repulsive I'm tired of hearing about the guy

Everyone in this thread who still wants to see Vick die a horrible death or go back to jail, take comfort in this...the Eagles are going NOWHERE this season because they have no secondary, their kicker is getting old ( and it is showing, sorry David Akers...you were great, but your age is showing ) Andy Reid is a soft coach who should have been replaced a while ago, and despite their big win against McNabb and Washington an ass-whipping doesn't close a season...
Football fan? take comfort in this alone...that is quite enough

n/t

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Doesn't seem very liberal or progressive to me.

I know most of us wouldn't get a second chance either, but that is not the point. If you want to believe in the inherent good in people, then you need to give all people the chance to redeem themselves.

That doesn't mean that I think people need to love Vick or laud him as a hero, for crying out loud, what has happened in the past should be left in the past.

Isn't he still making a ton of money? Who here has stopped him from enjoying this second chance?

Progressives are still literally cleaning up his psychotic mess while he continues to live it up. Sure he had to spend time in a cell, but that's nothing compared to what the rescuers are still dealing with today...which is even less than what the victims are still dealing with.

While believing in the best of man kind is part of the liberal philosophy, ignoring one's psychotic past isn't. Vick committed acts of pure evil and I have no issues with being a progressive who judges him on his actions.

"Every time the 4-year-old dog meets a stranger, he goes into convulsions. He staggers back into a wall for protection. He lowers his face and tries to hide. New faces are not new friends, but old terrors."

"The dog .... would spend nearly an hour shaking with each new person who tried to touch him.

"It turns out that Mel had been a bait dog ....sometimes even muzzled so he wouldn't fight back, beaten daily to sap his will. Mel was under constant attack, and couldn't fight back, and the deep cuts were visible on more than just his fur."

And as for the lessons learned?

"Meanwhile, in Philadelphia, the lessons learned from Vick's crimes were on display in a postgame quote from Eagles star receiver DeSean Jackson.

"We were like pit bulls ready to get out of the cage," he told reporters."


http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-plaschke-20101117,0,5163298.column?page=1&ref=nf

Mel and the other dogs that survived aren't finished suffering. Why the fuck should that asswipe pathetic excuse for a human being be done suffering. He will never be able to undo the damage he and his friends deliberately, malisciously, visciously inflicted on those dogs. Not to mention the dogs, cats and other animals that didn't survive being "bait."

Do you KNOW that these viscious thugs steal people's pets, put them into burlap bags and throw them into the ring for the fighting dogs to tear into pieces?

DID YOU HAPPEN TO READ ABOUT THE 84 YEAR OLD WOMAN WHO AS ROBBED OF HER PURSE AND HER DOG JUST A COUPLE WEEKS AGO? YOU DO REALIZE THAT POOR OLD LADIE'S DOG HAS PROBABLY ALREADY BEEN SHREDDED IN TO PIECES.

If that worthless piece of shit wants forgiveness, I suggest he pray to GOD for forgiveness for the immense, unending suffering he and his ilk perpetrated and continue to perpetrate on the innocent.

That piece of garbage isn't good enough to wipe up dog shit.

I'll give him a chance, alright, when he cleans out the dog doo from rescue shelters he volunteers at for the rest of his life. And donates his millions to them.

Let's talk then.

Just tell the victim's families to get over it?

I think most people are reprehensible filth down inside. Probably me included. :evilgrin:

just human, and Vick can go straight to a tortured, bloody hell for all I care.

called the sanctuary that took those dogs? Never asked about them? Never donated money?

Anyone?

I doubt it; sports worship in this country is pathetic.

DU doesn't believe in the capacity of humans for redemption.

Like I said, when Vick volunteers weekly to clean out the pens of rescued dogs, we'll know his money (oh, how about a VERY LARGE donation of some of those big NFL bucks to the American Society for Prevention of CRUELTY to Animals) is where his mouth is.

He has already served his punishment as agreed by our legal system, and now he has to meet your standard, and then every other individual who has been offended by his actions, until ultimately, based on this thread, he must drown himself to atone (and probably rot in hell for eternity as well).

I believe he will and must spend the rest of his life in atonement, but I will not be his judge.

And on edit. I will be his judge. Voiceless animals need all the help they can get. Our legal system accommodates them only because progressives make it happen. And it's extremely hard work.

He has not called them, or donated money to their care.

:shrug:

I doubt they would come, but then again, dogs are all about forgiveness...

The headline is eye catching. I was shocked when I saw it on the front of ESPN.

I have a generally negative feeling about the way this is positioned. The writer basically says that Vick has done all these great things and BTW, he's had a great season, so he should be forgiven. I doubt this article would have been written if Vick was still a bench warmer.

This country has a complete, unapologetically unadulterated, creepy fetish with all things bad and wrong.

No wonder this country cows and sucks it's thumbs while War Criminals and Thugs Rape, Murder, Loot, Rob and Steal.

We have EXACTLY the society we deserve.

Maybe he'll get The Medal Of Freedom if he leads the Eagles to the Super Bowl and wins the MVP.

Then he can join the Big Boy Club.

Speeches smeeches. He HASN'T been shamed enough, IMO. He lost a hundred million bucks because of his actions? Boo fucking hoo. It's not like someone stole it from him. Bed. Made. Lie, Michael.

you can forgive, It isn't my job to forgive every shit bag on the planet.

before and still do. He's done his time.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

love dogs nothing changed. Will always like Michael Vick.

If you "love dogs," you don't tolerate the horror Vick put dogs through. Period. You can say that you believe under the laws of our country that "he has paid his debt," but please don't say you love dogs and Vick in the same breath. It sounds like Tea Party "Christian" hypocrisy. Walk the walk.

I can do both.I'm entitled to my opinion& don't care what you think

where's that ignore button...

And you set it up under your profile.

HE'S A SUPERSTAR!!!1 is more important. I fear how many DU apologists would come out in favor of him if he raped someone they cared about...but served his time.

Flipping burgers or digging ditches because his criminal record prevents him from returning to his prior employment? No? Well, sorry, but it's rather easy to be "humbled" & "chastened" when you're making millions of dollars per year playing a game.

dg

Vick couldnt give a rats ass about what ANYBODY on this board thinks, says, or feels, I dont watch football, so he doesnt get any $ from me!!

When he has nothing but pain and violence in pursuit of bare survival to look forward to every day. When he's eating the shit he can steal away from other bums or going without. When he's denied companionship, comfort, and basic medical care so that someone else can enjoy watching his misery. When he's traumatized with noise, violence, stench, and terror every single day of his wretched life. When he's lost his wealth, his cushy home, his designer clothes, his luxury car, and the only "retirement" he can look forward to is a cramped, fetid hovel and an occasional can of rancid Ol Roy on the rare occasion that someone bothers to remember him.

When he's lost everything that he denied to those dogs, THEN I'll forgive him. He was (and is) a wealthy man. Wealth means power, and with power comes vastly increased responsibility. He had the power to do more GOOD than most ordinary people could ever hope to accomplish, and he chose instead to use that power for the foulest of evils. He could have given those dogs a life that most dogs could only DREAM of with his wealth, but instead he chose to torture them. Hog pen muck is a higher and more noble life form than Michael Vick.

He paid the "debt" that our society asked, but it wasn't high enough for me. Maybe the criminal justice system is satisfied, but I'm not--and I never will be. Not until he's as miserable and hungry and hurting and uncared-for as the animals he tortured. All I have to do is look into the eyes of the Golden Retriever that I love with all my heart, that I have personally gone without meals *myself* in hard times in order to make sure HE had everything he needed, to know that my forgiveness will be HARD won, if it's even possible at all. A dog is a life placed into your hands in the fullest possible way, and to abuse that kind of trust is unconscionable.

Fuck Michael Vick.

That. Is. All.

OK, rainbows, then.

Musta been a slow news day for topics #1 & #2.


:popcorn:

How are you and cleanhippie and Renew doing?

Many, many posts condition ire on wealth AND animal cruelty.

we use in growing.

it is somehow worse when the most defenseless in our society are the victims. True justice would've been to put him in a room with the Pitt Bulls and let them determine whether to have mercy.

Forgiveness doesn't have a schedule, and lectures won't give it one.


Fact is, Michael Vick is a celebrity, which is a profession that kind of by definition requires the affection and esteem of the public. The public doesn't OWE him, or anyone else, jack shit. He had that esteem, and he blew it his own damn self. (And he did it cruelly, methodically, over a long period of time, for kicks--it wasn't a one-time mistake.) Nobody owes him respect, fandom, attention, money, or a positive opinion. He doesn't have a RIGHT to be popular again. He's gonna have to earn it, and it won't be easy, and it might not be possible. Oh well. Them's the breaks. Can't say I'm losing much sleep over it.

Everyone except the very angry and empty inside have forgiven him and accepted that he's paid his debt to society. You're in the minority on this one.

Never heard of Vick before this so found this video to watch it.
I think what he did was horrible and think he deserved all the bad things that happened. He clearly only is sad that he lost his $100 mill contract

http://www.bet.com/video/838029

Vick's story is disgusting beyond words. I don't think the public will ever forgive him. And it seems many people don't believe in redemption.

I hate what he did, personally, and have great difficulty even thinking of forgiving him even though I usually do believe in redemption. It's going to take time if it happens at all.

The only thing I can add is that we euthanize 6-8 million cats/dogs every YEAR in the U.S. There may be a lot of animal lovers here at DU, but clearly our country is sick in this area. In England, the number is 8,000 dogs per year.

And Vick's responsible for millions less animals killed than most of our most respected businesses and institutions.

I don't mind the outcry -- the questions, etc. -- but threads about the physical abuse of women/children don't get this kind of vitriol/attention.

. . . I despise the Iggles now more than evah!

I just thought that bore repeating.

No thanks. I'm not joining the train.

And never walk again. POS. If he wasn't a football player NOBODY would be looking to forgive this POS. I bet the dogs in the kennel wouldn't want this POS in with them. I wouldn't blame them. Now put him in a kennel with mean pit bulls, that may be an idea.

With that attitude, I would.

I might, might, consider "forgiving" him. But he tortured innocent animals and the only reason he has been "humbled" and is so apologetic is because he got caught. He's a terrible human being.

I forgive people that make stupid mistakes. That wasn't a stupid mistake; it was wanton cruelty.

He's rich, famous and successful, and he doesn't need my forgiveness. Nor will he get it.

He has suffered the legal consequences but not the consequences of moral depravity. He has no business in a league with people who are worshipped as heroes and compensated better than nearly everyone alive. Let him drive a taxi or move pianos and let some young quarterback have an opportunity to be a real hero.

Disgusting animals on this post. It's like a pack of rabid slobbering animals all wearing tie-dye shirts with peace symbols on them. Progressives? Liberals?... Hell, not even human in my book.

Sometimes I think awful words on the internet are more awful
than torturing, drowning, electrocting & shooting dogs! :*

But who could possibly give a fuck what you think.

go team.

a man that committed multiple pre-meditated violent acts of torture on other living beings. Might as well be George W Bush apologists in my mind.

Not that I'm pointing any fingers or anything...

Vick is good at Football, so he must be forgiven.

Sure, Vick took utter delight in the torture, maiming, and killing of innocent animals. So what? Can't we forgive him because he's having a good year with the Eagles?

Sure, he got a total slap on the wrist of a sentence for the torture, maiming, and killing of innocent animals. So what? He's really working hard and watching a lot of game films.

Sure, the dogs that survived Vick's unforgivable pass-time will never be alright and will probably die in animal shelters. So what? Lebron James and Michael Jordan seem to have forgiven him.

Vick is a sociopath. No amount of fake contrition or speeches to the Humane Society is going to change that. Anyone that believes he actually gives a shit about the dogs he killed is a fucking idiot.

Sorry Giant fan here.

I was defending Vick. However, after learning more about what he had done and what he was responsible for, I realize that some things may not be forgivable.

-P