People really should be careful with their language. Calling TSA workers child molesters

isn't cool.

It isn't cool to be a child molester, yet TSA molests children. True indeed.

a strip search "involves stripping a person naked."

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You're more dedicated to accepting without objection intrusion than resisting it legally.

The problem is your attitude about it, not that of everyone else here.

I don't think we should be forced to make that decision.

Part of our quality of life in America is that we get to make decisions about how we travel without being treated as criminals when we choose for example to fly. Do you realize that Homeland Security plans to rollout out these porno scanners and genital gropings to trains and bus depots. Do you really want America to look and feel like a police state? I know I don't. And I think there is something very wrong if too many people can numbly accept that this is what our country has come to.

Try looking at the images released by the TSA.

b) the person who posted the vid said the kid's father had removed his shirt, not the TSA. The videographer also said he had no idea what conversation had ensued, and didn't know if the father had done it at the request of the TSA, or in frustration with either the TSA or his son.

I think you replied to the wrong post.

:)

Your clothes are removed one piece at a time and each part of your body is checked. An even more invasive search is a body cavity search. The TSA does not perform strip searches. TSA employees perform what is better called a pat-down. The goal of a pat-down is to get enough of a feel about whether a person is hiding an object, yet not touch sensitive parts of the person unless by accident.

the "pat-down" includes ass, breasts and genitals as well as putting the hands beneath the waist of the pants and feeling all the way around the body right on your bare skin.

Incidently, in a regular strip search you can see the searcher so you will know whether or not they are making any comments or otherwise behaving rudely about what they're looking at, and in a regular strip search there are no permanent images that can be stored away for future use or shared. A regular strip search doesn't involve radiation either, and the effects of such radiation are disputed. I'd far rather strip naked before the very eyes of a searcher that I can gauge their behavior be being able to confront them and know that when my clothes are back on whatever they saw can't be stored or shared and that I won't have to worry about unknown radiation effects. However, I only take my clothes off when I'm getting paid for it, when I agree to it, or if there's a valid warrant.

doesn't look good to me.

Where did the person who posted the video say that?

On the description of the video, uploaded by the person who recorded it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSQTz1bccL4

Lets get the facts straight first. Before the video started the boy went through a metal detector and didn't set it off but was selected for a pat down. The boy was shy so the TSA couldn't complete the full pat on the young boy. The father tried several times to just hold the boys arms out for the TSA agent but i guess it didn't end up being enough for the guy. I was about 30 ft away so i couldn't hear their conversation if there was any. The enraged father pulled his son shirt off and gave it to the TSA agent to search, thats when this video begins.

******* THIS VIDEO OCCURRED AT SALT LAKE CITY INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT ON NOVEMBER 19TH AT AROUND THE TIME OF 12:00 PM **********

I have thought "strip search" meant you had to strip down naked and be searched. Is shirt removal now what is generally thought of when you get "strip searched"? Serious question.

really. i don't know what i saw

Lets get the facts straight first. Before the video started the boy went through a metal detector and didn't set it off but was selected for a pat down. The boy was shy so the TSA couldn't complete the full pat on the young boy. The father tried several times to just hold the boys arms out for the TSA agent but i guess it didn't end up being enough for the guy. I was about 30 ft away so i couldn't hear their conversation if there was any. The enraged father pulled his son shirt off and gave it to the TSA agent to search, thats when this video begins.

******* THIS VIDEO OCCURRED AT SALT LAKE CITY INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT ON NOVEMBER 19TH AT AROUND THE TIME OF 12:00 PM **********

from the clip what happened

Seems the title "Young Boy strip searched by TSA" is deliberately misleading

MY point is that whether or not these intrusions are sensible or not, the OUTRAGE over them is being driven by lies and half-truths propagated by people who want to stir up anti-government hatred, much like what happened after Waco. DU has fallen for it, too.

It's a topic that can't be discussed rationally. It's a HUGE blow to the Obama administration - in fact, I believe Napolitano will lose her job over this. And all because of crazed outrage based on anecdotes and lies.

It's a topic that can't be discussed rationally. It's a HUGE blow to the Obama administration - in fact, I believe Napolitano will lose her job over this. And all because of crazed outrage based on anecdotes and lies.

Do you really think that? I hope you're right. I hope Napolitano is fired. The Obama administration deserves everything it gets for allowing this travesty to go forth.

OK, I'm a former PR hack and therefore have a small advantage, but it seems to me any sentient person could figure out there would be huge blow back from both the left and the right.

To put it a little more crudely: this was major effing stupid.



Cher

anyone told him to do that. Maybe someone said something about a search and the boy reacted. The adults were all standing around looking in other directions, except for the father who was right behind him and blocking the camera's view.

"The father tried several times to just hold the boys arms out for the TSA agent but i guess it didn't end up being enough for the guy. I was about 30 ft away so i couldn't hear their conversation if there was any. The enraged father pulled his son shirt off and gave it to the TSA agent to search, thats when this video begins. "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSQTz1bccL4

According to the man who posted the video the child was shy, and it was his father who pulled the shirt off in frustration.
"The child was physically resisting agents, Tait said."
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50725057-76/tait-tsa-video-shirt.html.csp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSQTz1bccL4

why was that agent doing that to a kid with his shirt off?

Just because it is quick and electronic does not negate the essential truth of what the equipment does.

Get real.

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"i was just doing my job" is not a valid excuse for evil acts.

I have seldom logic that has more holes in it. First of all, the actions of TSA employees are NOT evil. Why do you make that horrific equivalence. Second, if any of us that perform work for pay or run a business quit because of one odorous aspect of the job, unemployment would be 100%.

You have no idea of what TSA employees are feeding back to TSA management concerning body searches. None us do. TSA employees could be feeding back information that will lead to more practical and effective airport security.

I am a moderate democrat. I would guess that, from having been on this site for less than a month, you would call yourself a liberal. Even-though I am a moderate, I have always held liberals in higher regard than I hold conservatives, that is until I read some of the posts about the TSA and the name calling toward TSA employees. The activity is understandable from conservatives, I expect them to behave somewhat less civilized, but to see liberals doing the same thing makes me wonder about why.

Some of you hold the Israeli system for screening passengers up as a model for the US to implement. I have traveled to and from Israel and several big european airports, as well as a number of big city US airports. I can say from experience that you don't know what you are talking about. If you do fly out of an Israeli airport, insure that you have papers detailing your travels in the country AND that you have all your underwear clean that is packed in your luggage, because every piece of your packed clothing will be searched. You think that the TSA searches are intrusive. Israeli screeners can perform baggage searches and passenger interviews passengers extensively because the country's only airport handles maybe ten international flights per day. The average US or european international airport handles hundreds of such flight a day, to all points of the globe. BTW. I have been "interviewed" by multiple Israeli security. I was not impressed, I did not meet one that I felt was skilled in intelligence gathering, I could have lied to them if I wanted to. A trained terrorist that has been taught to lie and is patient can easily defeat the Israeli screening system, one has to look no farther than terrorists that have killed Mossad agents or the terrorists that killed several CIA agents in Afghanistan.

When you step on peoples' rights they tend to get pissed off.
There was another thread on DU that found that some of them are.
One had a 15 year old girl as his sex slave.

paint any profession in which sexual crimes have been committed as "child molesters"? How about teachers?

There are bad people in every profession.
I would assume that most of the TSA agents do not like doing the pat downs.
Others probably get off on the power that it gives them.
Others may get a sexual kick out of it.
The problem is that one does not know which one you are going to get.
For years the American people have fought for the right not be touched in ways they do not wish to be touched.
Now we are told to let others touch us in ways that we do not wish to be touched.
I do not trust the new machines, no one knows if they are dangerous or not.
Both sides have their talking points on that issue.
For years the American people have been free to travel any where in this country, even cross state lines.
Now if we want to travel to another part of your state we are required to let someone touch our genitals.
I find this disturbing.

You ask a question about teachers. If a teacher touched your child's genitals you would have them arrested.
If you have a TSA agent touch your child's genitals are you going to have them arrested?? See the difference??

Child: Young human.

Case closed.

when they equate national socialism with socialism. Well played, sir.

What did they expect?

if these workers would take a stand, this might not be happpening ....you can not be serious to think that groping a child will not do harm to the child, or that some gropers will actually enjoy it. What are we teaching our kids?...that it is ok to have people with a badge put their hands on you anywhere they want, and that it is ok?

if you are groping a child....you should get called out on it!!! period

Even if it is especially colorful and a lot of hyperbole. If it offends you then I suggest either hiding the threads or going to more "family friendly" websites where language is sanitized.

But on this website calling Obama a muslim would probably get you banned pronto.

And calling Obama a socialist would be cheered by many (if only it were true), because a socialist is not a bad thing to many DUers, and I agree with them.

Anyway, I always object to people trying to control language, its kind of a reflex response.

if my boss ordered me to search kids, i would not molest them, but i would search them because i dont want to end up unemployed.

its very easy to be noble when its not your life that will fall apart without a job

people have much more choice in whether or not they should fly with their child, than a tsa worker has in bending rules

i dont like this, but blaming the front line is not useful or particularly intelligent

i have been groped and i have been checked for explosives (india does what tsa is doing now) and these are very separate things. it is possible that this makes it easier to abuse a child or another adult, yes, but that is not the same as saying that both things are equal. they are categorically not.

also, if you are blaming people who were not responsible for creating the policy, why not blame parents? how many children absolutely have to fly as a matter of necessity?

to be searched.

be facing 11,000 $ fine.

If you think it is acceptable for a stranger in a position of authority to press their fingertips against your labia and stick their hands between your skin and your panties - then squeeze your breasts and rub their hands across your nipples, go for it.

If you think it is acceptable for a stranger in a position of authority to do that to a child - including suggesting that a child has to remove their shirt (was it too baggy? Probably. What if it was their trousers - should they remove those, too?), then you trot your kid down there and let them do it.

It's not about sex - it's about a RIGHT (and if you don't understand what defines a 'right' - hint: it's not the law - then look it up) to be inviolate in one's person.

Yeah, the TSA agents probably don't like doing it (for the most part), but to suggest that we should capitulate because those poor sods would lose their jobs is ridiculous - and to suggest that parents' are to blame because they take their children on a plane is BS of the first order.



edited for clarity

and so if its ok to blame the TSA agent who had nothing to do in creating this rule, its perfectly fair to blame parents

Since the agent of the government tells the parent the pat down of a child needs to be done in order to get on the plane?

disobey direct orders from the govt? risk losing their jobs and livelihood?


i think people are a lot more brave and noble, when they are not the ones faced with job loss & unemployment

You keep on peddling that line, someone might buy it.

and pits people who dont have power against each other

And the 'powerless' argument is specious logic.

But keep trying. I noticed you started a new thread using this argument.

doesn't make it true

debating you. You're mind is clearly made up, so why argue? I'll leave that for others who have the inclination.

Pointed out the new thread because I always find it interesting when someone has to carry their chatter to a new place to try and convince others of their point.

fascism/neo-feudalism for a paycheck.

Congratulations, you've joined the ranks of the monsters.

You seem to be OK with our nation's free fall into the abyss, but don't be surprise that you get some resistance along the way.

Would you do this for your paycheck?

and claiming they wouldn't. Its very easy to judge when it isn't a threat to your resources

I am well versed in psychology literature and am aware that what people say they will do and what they do differs wildly

everyone knows walmart has bad business practices, discriminates against women, causes communities to become poorer but people still shop at walmart. a lot of people here will defend to the death their shopping at walmart.

when it comes to your own life, very very few make huge sacrifices, when it comes to judging others we are all very noble

I have heard that one before. The font line of the TSA is part of the problem. I fly 2-4 times a week and I see what these clowns are doing almost every day.

And how often do you fly?

The language being used shows just how out of control the situation is. This cannot continue as is.

IMHO the powers that be will have to make some changes soon.

and that being a registered sex offender would DQ someone from being a TSA agent.

Right?

has already been caught?

The way it works is, first someone molests. Then they get a criminal record.

strange huh?

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I've seen the clips of the children screaming "bad touch" or similar things. The TSA grunts are just doing what they are commanded to do but they are still violating children in a manner that would get them arrested in any other capacity. Are there perverts in TSA? Probably. Are they common? No.

The point of the protest is to get THEM to rebel against what they are commanded to do. They know it is wrong. I would love to wake up to the morning paper headline that the TSA workers have gone on strike because of the policies, but they aren't unionized and I would have read about it on the Internet before going to bed the night before. I'm not optimistic. But their dissatisfaction can be amplified. Frankly, I don't think they are paid enough to do what they are charged with doing and it isn't their fault. We have a moral obligation to defend the U.S. Constitution and in this case the 4th Amendment in particular. Write your Congress-critter. Ron Paul (I know, I know) introduced a simple one paragraph bill that would go a long way toward solving this problem - HR 6416 American Traveling With Dignity Act of 2010 (not sure of the exact title, but it is HR 6416). I don't like the fucker, but he's totally on target here.

... delights in the fact that they have to touch the crotch of every person that gets on an airplane? I'm sure they'd to it for free if they didn't have to do it to keep their low paying job!


:sarcasm:

It would be wrong to call them "convicted child molestors," but a person who gropes the private parts of children is a child molester. It's just a person who has license and authority to do it without being punished for it.

Could they do it a day care? At a public school? At a private school? Anywhere else?

Subjecting children to such molestation is what isn't cool. Get your priorities right, please.

.

And even if it were, it's still wrong.

The child is being molested by a strange adult.

When you understand that, you will quit arguing it isn't.

It is REAL molestation. It's your happy spin on it that's fiction.

is "being molested?"

Do you have children?

You seem insensitive to their make up, as if you've never reared one.

What's the difference between the mail man and the TSA agent rubbing their privates?

From their perspective, there would be none. You seem incapable of seeing that.

if I were against it. Rather than submit myself or my child to a procedure I consider "molestation." End of story.

Unrec.

workers child molesters.

blaming the wrong people. These are people who are doing their jobs the way they're told to, and they gotta put up with people calling them perverts and molesters, it's wrong. Blame the policy, not the people who have jobs to do. And don't complain when a bomb goes off after rules are softened.

No wonder we are in this economic and cultural clusterfuck...I'm surprised we have any rights, period.

Most Americans have given up their freedom for the concept of 'personal safety', which they will never have no matter what FUX Noise tells them.

I am starting to think Americans do not deserve freedom/democracy.

because they think the democratic elites don't give a damn about them

It would be nice if you could take the time to respond

...what should I call that?

It is what it is!

I SO will not be careful with my language. As an adult of child sexual abuse for MANY years of my young life, as the mother of two daughters who were taught touching that made them feel creepy IS NOT OKAY...I certainly will NOT be careful with my language pertaining to this atrocity!

Cower if you will, your choice; however, I wonder if you have children? These bastards SUCK...TSA is the thin line to facism...very thin line. Do you care???????

Jenn

Complain about it all you want , it's irresponsible to call TSA workers child molesters. If you're against the pat-downs say so, and tell why, but don't put such an ugly vile label on people who ...right or wrong are doing their jobs. Like their going to molest kids in a crowded airport in front of their parents and countless others.

Anyone who thinks that this is actually molestation or equates it to molestation is fucking wrong. I get pissed when people get too liberal with the word "rape", also.

What would YOU call them?

Children shouldn't have to make that distinction. Ever.

As a parent, I teach my daughter that no on is allowed to touch her private parts. It doesn't suddenly become ok just because someone is wearing a uniform.

By your definition the police molest suspects every time they arrest them.

but I expect to be thrown in jail first for physically stopping the TSA agent. No one should expect me to stand there and allow it.

Not sure how your police analogy works. Are you comparing innocent passengers flying on planes to people who are arrested for breaking a law? So TSA agents groping my kid should be ok with me because the police pat down people that they arrest? Really?

If we are to go by what people are saying, then police are molesters too. I can't understand why someone who is opposed to this policy would allow them or their children to be pat -down.

For no apparent reason?

handle one of my children the way TSA wants to, I would make Skittles look like a freakin' amature!

To Skittles: Never have kicked anyone's ass...I have no doubt you hold the prize; HOWEVER, mess with my kiddos,even though they are now 29 and 26, I WILL put you to shame! :rofl:

Jenn

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" -Benjamin Franklin

nothing will change and they will continue to chip away at our rights.

Bad touch. Good touch. Remember? The TSA workers are doing Bad Touch. People have gone to jail for Bad Touch.

At some point people will have to wake up to the fact that change takes real sacrifice and act accordingly.

The change will come. The sacrifices will be made. The only question is how well you sleep at night after making your decisions while it is happening.

Ask the Germans how well "just doing your job" worked out for them. They didn't feel they had a choice either.

It's offensive.

It is what it is. I'm not going to stop calling it molestation.

Why can't people just post why they're opposed to this procedure instead of calling a whole group of people one of the most vile names. It doesn't do anything to enhance their position.

then they should get a new job or quit groping children.

kind of parent would stand by and allow their child to be "groped?" I know I wouldn't.

if you want to fly.

Like I said earlier, I'd rather take a cruise ship to Europe instead of flying.

You are failing to appreciate or understand how deeply and seriously this issue offends people. It is an issue of human dignity. On every front, privacy rights have been eroded. It has now reached the point where the most hands-off area is no longer sacrosanct.

Furthermore, the argument has a point as a poster upthread explained (intent and actual act).


Cher

Plus molestation isn't always about sexual gratification. Sometimes it's about power.

Either way, you can't expect a child to be sophisticated enough to know the difference. At the end of the day, a stranger is touching their genitals without their permission.

Are tsa 'workers' forced to touch children? Shit, I once quit a job for being expected to fetch coffee.

:spray:

Children under 12 will receive modified pat downs, but TSA won't say what is modified.

However, I'd still have to joke with them if I was going through security. "If you're gonna do that pal, first you have to buy me dinner."

And I'm not even gay. You know? I can't imagine being groped like that when I just want to fly somewhere.

Intent doesn't always matter. If the jackboots used common sense, they wouldn't get any criticism.

Until that becomes part of the job description, I will stand by my characterization of them as perverts. Or as sex workers, who get paid to handle genitalia.