Do you prefer the term "liberal" or "progressive"?

:shrug:

"I do not believe in what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"- From Ben Watenburgs show a long time ago.


Nowadaze, its: "I do not believe in what you say, and because it may offend someone, I think I will ban it."

Nowadaze: "You will follow the Politically Correct Gameplan, or perish. You are not allowed to point out the obvious, because it does not agree with my religion." Progressives have shifted to the old Conservative mode of banning speech for 'religious' purposes.

Sure you're at the right place?

As to the question I am both.

-Hoot

Do you think " I do not believe in what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it" is too strong, and that one must submit to a 'standard' level of sociali-zed thinking? IE: Political Correctness?

Global warming is real, overpopulation still the #1 or close issue, nope, not a retardican, don't post at freeperville, although I do post at illegal immigration sites, but thats an equal issue with the 'left' and the right.

Not a 'Flaming psyco environmentalist, I hate being told I can't 'touch the local wildlife", almost came to blows many an Earth-First outing.

But I did digress, please answer if you wish, I really want to know.

Enjoy your stay, I await your free and vigorous exercise of your first amendment rights. All in the name of free speech.

-Hoot

Just hollar, I'll get your back....but you go first...:P

Probably as different as elephants, Black Plague virus, and howler monkeys.

things last year and got absolutely creamed around these parts. Yet, I continue to hold the view that they are similar but different in concept. Obama, the Clintons are progressives, but are they liberals? Hell, no! Do they believe that the country should move forward and embrace inevitable change? Yes! But are they liberals? No!!

Progressivism = concept, philosophy that embraces progress, change
Liberalism = governing philosophy = how we view the proper role of government

My policy textbook goes into the difference between Rawls' Contractual approach vs. John Stuart Mill's Utilitarian approach...both under Liberalism.

that there is SOME role for government. The difference is in *degree* or the extent to which government should regulate the social and economic domains in American life.

For that matter, all americans are libertarians (small "L"), at least, I hope we are. We are libertarians, as JSM argued because we embrace civil liberties. For those of us who do not, they subscribe to a dictatorship.

They've tried so hard to demonize the word. I think we should wear it like a badge of honor.

for them, then I will maybe start using them

my neighbors here in south Texas.

... just to piss off all the wingers I work with, and so that there is no room for confusion with anyone else.

They shut right up :)

You're right BTW. Call yourself a socialist and they DO shut right up.

My head has a nicely rounded shape.

Just curious :shrug:

That's how it was explained to me years ago. Makes sense to me. Liberal is what I am, progressive is what I do.

Sorry.

But if you would be kind enough to help me by providing an example of the word progressive used in a sentence as a verb, I might then understand. Surely you can help enlighten me.

I use these two different words correctly. It's easier than using them incorrectly. And it just makes more sense.

The right hurls around the terms socialism, communism, fascism almost interchangeably so I do appreciate the desire to point out distinctions with a difference where they exist.

Wiki provide some good, concise insights into the differences between liberals and progressives where they exist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism#Relation_to_other_political_ideologies

I tend to use the term progressive to identify myself.

"The term "progressive" is today often used in place of "liberal." Although the two are related in some ways, they are separate and distinct political ideologies and should not be used interchangeably. The reason for this confusion might partly be rooted in the political spectrum being two-dimensional; social liberalism is a tenet of modern progressivism, whereas economic liberalism (and its associated deregulation) is not. According to John Halpin, senior advisor on the staff of the Center for American Progress, "Progressivism is an orientation towards politics. It's not a long-standing ideology like liberalism, but an historically-grounded concept... that accepts the world as dynamic."

The ones most commonly used by the right and mouthpieces for "sensible" moderates.

Would you prefer the old Soviet Union, or any other Eastern Block countries? Should you be called an 'American' socialist, and do you ever shop at whole foods, use air-conditioning? I mean, communal living is ok, if you are all of the same mind, which is very rare.

I mean, I lived in Boulder, Colorado for a while, and found the suedo-hippi thing to be totally false and disengenuous. The poor undergrads in the sciences where the ones concerned with overpopulation, forest issues, for the most part, but thats because there are not alot of 'Earth-First type Country Bumpkins around Boulder, way too expensive. The more money you had, the less concerned you were, so Capital-communism is what it could be called, although I doubt any of them want to live in a cabal with the bumpkins. Hope thats understandable.

I however, admit I want a small farm-house in the country, nice car, good healthcare, and a mid 5 figure income.

Just wondering...

He's pointing out some of the common insults the repukes and their Fox buddies like to use for us.

:hi:

... with human rights, and all the rights protected in our U.S. Constitution.

I presume when you use the term liberal you mean modern liberalism as opposed to classical liberalism?

Social liberalism and economic liberalism are points of major contention within both modern liberalism and classical liberalism.

I was just curious to see whether many people make a distinction between the two, I personally prefer the term "liberal" to describe myself, but I have used "progressive" occasionally.

... some libertarians describe themselves as classical liberals.

Because those other terms are mostly used as negatives around here, by those who are very certain they mean one thing or the other, but can not say which. Add to that, 'moderate', 'centrist' and all of the rest, no one knows what they mean. We have posters who constantly snipe at "progressives" with air quotes, and others who say 'thank God I'm a liberal and not a progressive' but if you ask any of them what they mean, they can not say, because they are using those terms as code for words they can not say, I think.
I'm big on first names, no labels, actually.

It's a word people started using because they didn't want to be called liberals.

I guess that makes me an "iconoclast".

:hide:

I think the word "liberal" is a fine word. It's been dragged through the mud, unfairly, for decades by the right wing.

while "conservative" seems for many, if not most, an admirable designation.

Canada has a major political party called the Liberal Party, and I’m not a member – I generally vote to the left of the Liberals, for the New Democratic Party. In a conversation about politics here, if someone said “I’m a liberal” it would likely be heard as “I’m a Liberal” in that context, and identifying as a “small-l-liberal” is just awkward, though I have heard people do it.

If you identify yourself as a “left-winger” (or “right-winger” for that matter) in Canada, it will be assumed you are a hockey player. Really.

I usually call myself a leftie or a progressive or, facetiously, a brainwashed-pinko-commie-socialist.

And I call myself a liberal. Of course, I always explain that I'm a "small L" liberal, not a member of the well-known party.

Fuck the bullshitting.

I'd call myself a commie pinko leftist except (1) we're out of commies and I wouldn't want to be one anyway and (2) I don't look good in pink.

...for me, being not exceptionally socially liberal but almost off the chart to the left on the economic issues.

I am just the opposite. I am off the chart on my social liberalism. On economic issues, my views are little more complicated. I have no problem with declaring war on corporations and vast accumulations of wealth, but I despise forced collectivism in any form.

Historically that word has a more expansive meaning that includes more than just liberals. I have an anti-authoritarian ideology that's sometimes to the left of traditional liberals.

and proud of it! :thumbsup:

I always answer that question the same way... RADICAL.

From the word radix, which means "root". Radicals get to the root of the problem, which is the only way to solve it.

And since most people misuse the term "radical", none of it matters anyway.

It makes Americans heads explode to learn that the British government is a Liberal-Conservative Coalition.

However my party has let me down.

So what can I say? Christian Social Democrat? (Christian == Mainstream Anglican).

But then I'm not American (though I've lived here many years now) so I can use Liberal, Progressive, whatever. Though Swamp Rat's label IMO is more accurate.

Human.

I like that.

Mark.

The problem with ALL these labels is that no one actually agrees on a single definition for any of them -- which basically renders them totally meaningless and therefore useless.

The bottom line for me is whether someone who is self-identifying as one thing or another is referring to social issues or economic issues.

There's a fuzzy sort of liberalism that's all about culture war issues but has nothing coherent to say about systemic economic analysis. I utterly despise that sort of liberalism.

And the range of ideology among those who self-identify as "progressive" renders that term useless as well. I see far too many people using that term in order to demonstrate that they too are hip and cool to self-identify as "liberal".

If you must call me anything, call me a leftist. At least that way I know I'll be equally dissed by all those I despise - the "liberals", the "progressives", and the right wing.

sw

suits me to a tee. Although, I will say that I'm pretty libertarian on the personal freedom scale and if you're oppressed, I STRONGLY want you freed from oppression. I just think that, unless you're one of the economic elite, you ARE oppressed, even if YOU don't think so.

Let's get rid of the BIGGEST oppressor in the capitalist system, and THEN we can talk about all the accessory shit.

upon definition of conservatism, either, for the record. And in fact, the other side is in a much more difficult situation that we are. The problem with our side is that have given into the right wing assault on the label, so much so, that we ourselves have seem to embraced this idea that we can't be called "liberals," so we confuse the term with "progressive," when in my view, there's a slight difference.

I think back to this. (This was from an Alan Grayson interview on Hardball earlier this year).

MATTHEWS: Hey look, don't hide from that word, liberal. It sounds - progressive sounds a little, well, I can't say it. Pusillanimous. Liberal is a good word. You gotta make it sound good. You just gotta make it sound - yeah I'm a liberal. I believe in opportunity for everybody. I believe in freedom for everybody. I believe in liberty for everybody. I'm an American. Of course I'm a liberal. People should say that. It would be more fun. This progressive sounds like you're hiding from being from who you are. The conservatives don't come up with euphemisms, they call themselves right wingers and love it.

since it got turned into a cuss by the Reaganites back in the 80s. Proud to be a liberal!

I originally understood "progressive" to be a way to avoid using the demonized-by-the-right term "liberal."

I understand some people make distinctions between "liberal" and "progressive." However, I've heard different people make different distinctions, so I've never really understand what the distinction is.