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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 02:47 PM
Original message
So the leak reveals that spying goes on in the diplomatic world
Color me surprised...shocked I tell ya!

In the real world this happens all the time...the reason this is problematic, from a government perspective, is that it reveals this in real time, not fifty years from now, where only history geeks give a shit.

But this is situation normal, and will make for some fascinating readying as well.
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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. Between nations diplomacy is a mask....
Everybody spies on everybody.

Everybody gets pissed when their dirty underwear gets exposed.

This is a monstrous inteligence failure on the part of the U.S., that one or a few low level agry people can expose this many secrets. This is everybit as big as the inteligence failure on 9/11 and in the Iraq debacle, and perhaps bigger.

I'd bet there are some big changes in the way that computers and classified information are handled in the future.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. It's the details that make this fascinating
The fact of spying is not a big surprise, but the pursuit of biometric data on foreign officials is something I wouldn't have supposed on my own.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
3. I kinda think we already knew this - been going on for a long long time. Since cold war?
Maybe before.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Nah, that sort of thing probably predates agriculture. (nt)
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. LOL n/t
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I was going to suggest flint tip
Making technology

:-)
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Bipedal locomotion! (nt)
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. If I really need to date the begininng of this
Shit...50,000 years ago...where the best flints are like secret, and how to negotiate gene ex....err you give me new blood and I give you new blood.

The first written accounts go back to oh the Bible, the Odisey...Pliny the Elder and Herodotus.

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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
4. Of course we're only seeing the couple dozen documents the news are talking about
Everyone latched onto Qadaffi's nurse, for instance, or the spying on the secretary-general, or a small handful of other things, but there's still 250,000 others that aren't out yet (at least anywhere I can see, especially since Wikileaks' site got shunted over to an outdated site this afternoon).

Basically I don't really feel that they've actually been released yet if the people given the files are only discussing the same few mediagenic documents. (Whether or not they're doing that with the purpose of making people think that's what all the contents are like is an exercise for the reader.)
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Swede Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
9. Diplomacy can seem like a game of cards.
There is public and private diplomacy. Some of the private cards have been revealed.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Exactly.
Usually we need to wait for declasification and decades.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
11. It killed START treaty dead.
with public revelation about Iranian ICBM's new attention will be paid to language allowing boost phase interception.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Pretty sure the GOP killed START right after the election. (nt)
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. + 10000
Kyl made noise well before the election to be exact.

This shit don't stop at the water's edge no more.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. ABM was going to be covered in nonbinding
addendum, now it will not be so informal. Thats my bet.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. And my bet is the GOP is not going to ratify shit
Welcome to Constitutional crisis and has nothing to do with this.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. They want to 100 billion for the labs
and new bomb design. I think they were going to bump that number and take an easy win next year. But thats only an opinion.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. The party of NYET
That's what they are up to. Wiki has nothing to do with THAT crisis.

Don't worry, this will blow over, as they always do. The crisis in DC on the other hand....that's just starting.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Oh I agree they will fuck up all kinds of stuff.
but free money is hard to turn down. Will see how it shakes out. Did you see the South Korean cables yet?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Amusing
Puts the current crisis in slightly a new light...

Which means NK will collapse soon.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Bingo. (nt)
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. This will be the green light for Boost Phase interceptors
which were going to be compromised in the treaty under non binding language. The US can not remain in NATO and meet its role without this technology. START will not be ratified without major overhaul.

Enjoy, you will paying for that program.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. START wasn't even going to be looked at for at least the next two years anyway
The Republicans made it clear as soon as they saw their numbers in Congress that that wasn't going to be permitted, like pretty much all other legislation for the next two years won't be.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Please link to that. Where it was not going to get a ratification next year.
that is what kyl said and it is an easy win for the republicans and they get more money for the labs. It will be ratified eventually, but the ICBM revelations change the game.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Look at the GOP, they only care about power
Leak or no leak,Kyl was and will kill it. I mean, it makes Obama look good, therefore it is bad.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. And the HEU in pakistan?
Stopping that was a good thing right? That is now done.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. What part of GOP don't give a shit are you missing?
As to the pakis, somehow I am NOT willing to lay odds on that.
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