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At least 80% (the vast majority) of homeless people are sane,

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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 09:37 PM
Original message
At least 80% (the vast majority) of homeless people are sane,
Edited on Sun Nov-28-10 09:50 PM by maryf
From the National Coalition of Homelessness (subtracting 16 from 100 would mean 84% of homeless are not severely mentally ill):

http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/index.html


Mental Illness: Approximately 16% of the single adult homeless population suffers from some form of severe and persistent mental illness (U.S. Conference of Mayors, 2005). Despite the disproportionate number of severely mentally ill people among the homeless population, increases in homelessness are not attributable to the release of severely mentally ill people from institutions. Most patients were released from mental hospitals in the 1950s and 1960s, yet vast increases in homelessness did not occur until the 1980s, when incomes and housing options for those living on the margins began to diminish rapidly...


(hmmm, 80's Reagan era) Considering that children make up between 25% and 39% of the homeless, and the above info was in reference to single adult homeless individuals, the percentage of mentally ill is actually less than 16% of the total...(closer to 10%)

At least 60% (a good majority) of homeless people are clean and sober

Although obtaining an accurate, recent count is difficult, the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (2003) estimates, 38% of homeless people were dependent on alcohol and 26% abused other drugs. Alcohol abuse is more common in older generations, while drug abuse is more common in homeless youth and young adults (Didenko and Pankratz, 2007).


What is truly sad and skews these figures for mental illness and substance abuse is the statistics on veteran homelessness:

The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) says the nation's homeless veterans are mostly males (four percent are females). The vast majority is single, most come from poor, disadvantaged communities, 45 percent suffer from mental illness, and half have substance abuse problems. America’s homeless veterans have served in World War II, Korean War, Cold War, Vietnam War, Grenada, Panama, Lebanon, Operation Enduring Freedom (Afghanistan), Operation Iraqi Freedom, or the military’s anti-drug cultivation efforts in South America. 47 per cent of homeless veterans served during the Vietnam Era. More than 67 per cent served our country for at least three years and 33 per cent were stationed in a war zone.

Here are some statistics concerning the veterans homeless <2>:

23% of homeless population are veterans
33% of male homeless population are veterans
47% Vietnam Era
17% post-Vietnam
15% pre-Vietnam
67% served three or more years
33% stationed in war zone
25% have used VA Homeless Services
85% completed high school/GED, compared to 56% of non-veterans
89% received Honorable Discharge
79% reside in central cities
16% reside in suburban areas
5% reside in rural areas
76% experience alcohol, drug, or mental health problems
46% white males compared to 34% non-veterans
46% age 45 or older compared to 20% non-veterans

Female homeless veterans represent an estimated 3% of homeless veterans. They are more likely than male homeless veterans to be married and to suffer serious psychiatric illness, but less likely to be employed and to suffer from addiction disorders. Comparisons of homeless female veterans and other homeless women have found no differences in rates of mental illness or addictions.


Please note the bold above is mine, veteran homeless are more likely to be mentally ill or substance abusers, (should we be surprised by this considering post traumatic stress disorder??)

Female homeless, are far more likely to have suffered from sexual and domestic abuse (on an aside, but possibly related, one in three female veterans suffers some form of sexual abuse while in service).

I am rather tired of reading here the false stats about how most homeless people are insane and/or drunk and addicted. While some are, and these are likely the ones many would have encounters with, more visible and vocal, the majority of homeless try really hard to not appear homeless and are just folks down on their luck, medical problems, loss of jobs, and a lack of affordable housing (the #1 cause) are more likely to have caused these people's plights than anything else.

Please take this under consideration the next time you hear someone say how homeless are "crazy drunk addicts"...It hurts me just to write that, how much would it hurt a sane, sober homeless person to read that (or one with problems other than homelessness)?

Try to walk a mile in a homeless person's shoes...they might have holes in them, but they'd rather you not notice that.
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. oop
Edited on Sun Nov-28-10 09:44 PM by AngryAmish
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. translate please? nt
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. didn't mean to post that. sorry. I cleaned it up.
Darn browser was frozen.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. been there...nt
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
5. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. Nice insensitive smack on the mentally ill, there!
:puke:
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. But...but that would mean homeless people are like, you know, normal
Like maybe homelessness is about economics and class issues, not evil spirits or personal bad choices or moral deficiencies or, or....

:cry: :cry: :cry:

You're making baby Jesus cry

K&R
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Homeless people are as normal as you or I
can be in this system! :hi:
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
21. This system sucks and any not seeing that are clueless and/or on the take. It is not
a system that will provide any sense of a healthy country in the 21st century. One has to be pretty dense to not see what is going on ...

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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 03:08 AM
Response to Reply #21
29. Ours
is an adolescent species, on the whole. We have a tendency to externalize responsibility for our actions and attitudes, and we are hedonistic as hell (this is becoming a global reality as capitalism spreads its nasty tendrils throughout our planet). We're all about sex, drugs and rock'n'roll. Here in the US, we can add "neighborhood bullies in the global sandbox" to our vitae. Are we going to grow up any time soon? It's looking doubtful.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #29
34. Adolescents are ruled by emotions (real and vicarious) and the senses...
Reason is not a major part of their being...Sounds very much like this country. Not looking good at all.
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #29
113. I used to think we would grow up, I was an eternal optimist for decades, but now
I've become cynical. One can only work for and believe in the best for so long and generally have overwhelming evidence that this is a perpetually adolescent species. And the US has disappointed me considerably. We're a major part of the adolescent behavior too. We're not solving the problem, we're part of the problem with draconian capitalism and greed.

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lightningandsnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
110. Mentally ill folks are normal too.
I have a mental illness that would probably fall into the "severe" category. I finally found medications that worked for me, and today, you probably wouldn't be able to tell unless I told you. And even when I was in the grips of my illness, under it all, I was still the same person.

I appreciate the intent of this thread, but there's too much subtle enforcement of the stereotypes surrounding mental illness.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #110
118. Thank you for speaking up, and you highlight the slipperyness of this topic that many of us see,
and hesitate to bring up because there are hurting people on both sides of this.

Of course you and others who suffer in that way are just as deserving of respect and dignity as anyone else. That is why I have stood up and confronted the misuse of terms designating "crazy" right here on DU. We all need to be aware of the harm we can do to others, and have the sensitivity to become more aware and caring.

On the other hand, it is also very harmful to label people as "mentally ill" just because they are homeless, and are not deserving of the label. I am sure you can understand the harm that comes from that, too.

If we were all more aware and sensitive, this wouldn't be so confusing to some.

Sadly, we have a long way to go to achieve this awareness.

Thank you for taking that step with us.
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a la izquierda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
8. K & R Thanks so much for posting!
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. you are welcome!
:)
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
10. That is right as rain but believing the lie is worse, to my mind.
How is justifiable (or safe) to have millions of people on the street that are sick and broken?

The truth is that there must be significant homelessness to create a sense of shortage of housing so that there is a bottom and upward pressure on housing costs.

There is no shortage of supply so one must be simulated and that means never, ever trying to fix this so we say they are nuts and want to live on the streets.

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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 06:17 AM
Response to Reply #10
31. There is a surplus of housing
In Detroit last I saw, there were 80,000 vacant houses with 50,000 homeless...shouldn't be that way...Thanks!
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
11. kick

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Withywindle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
12. K & R
Good information, thank you for posting it.


I also have trouble with the way the myth that homeless people are "mentally ill and drug addicts" is used to write them off--what, mentally ill people and/or those with substance abuse problems (many of whom got those problems by self-medicating for untreated mental illness) don't deserve help too?
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 06:19 AM
Response to Reply #12
32. Absolutely...
where is our compassion?
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mntleo2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
13. As someone who has been homeless with kids ...
...while working full time, I can tell you that the System is broken and has been for years. Am I insane? Well I CAN say that the experience of being homeless left my children and I permanently scarred. We are still able to function but it hurt us so deeply we will never get over it.

Oh, and btw, I worked my ass off during the supposedly "prosperous" times and STILL experienced homelessness so I can tell you working hard is *not* the answer. I also did not do drugs, did not drink and had my children within the sanctions of marriage. I went to church, volunteered, was in the PTA , did all the right things. I was however a woman (strike one) with minority children (strike two) working McJobs (strike three) with cheap greedy psycho bosses who thought they were doing me a favor to work my butt off for wages that would not even pay the rent (strike 4). On most days I "got" to experience their insanity (strike 5) and lack of common sense (strike 6) that was obvious to all their workers but strangely never to themselves or any of their buddies (strike 8). The Emperor truly wore no clothes.

Sometimes however I have FELT like going insane when people assume somehow homelessness was my fault and that I was mentally ill.

Cat in Seattle
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #13
33. Thanks for your story...
folks need to know that homelessness is a result of a very broken system...:hi:
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
14. Very good post!
:applause:
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
15. Just, thank you so much for posting this.
I'm sick to death of assholes, both intentional and just ignorant, propagating the stereotype of the homeless as crazed, defective, undeserving, lazy, stupid, drug addicts.
:kick: & R

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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #15
37. Thank you for reading it!
:)
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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
17. K&R
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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
18. K&R
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
19. Reagan gutted the federal affordable housing programs.
Edited on Sun Nov-28-10 11:05 PM by EFerrari
That gets lost in most of these discussion. He slashed the budget by 75%.

And :toast: to the National Coalition for the Homeless.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #19
65. yep
and programs have never recovered...not that anyone ever really tried...
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #19
83. this country may never recover...
from the many sins of that asshole.
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
20. Thanks for posting this! It's sheer absurdity for anyone to think the
majority of homeless people are also mentally ill,"crazy drunk addicts" and the like. Shit happens in life and it can affect anyone. The arrogance of some people working that want to feel superior and dump on others is ludicrous.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #20
52. It's like playing king of the mountain...
Insecure in their place, and in the back of their mind they know they might be in the same predicament...thanks for your worthy comment!
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
22. k&r
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
23. Homeless people are us.
Just without the roof, walls the minimal stability that comes from paycheck to paycheck living. Saying most homeless are mentally ill, or drug addicted puts the blame squarely where it doesn't and shouldn't belong, on the homeless.

And here's another thing, just because your homeless and enjoy the occasional beer or joint, does not make you an alcoholic or drug abuser, it makes you just like almost everyone else.

K&R
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
24. k and r--thank you so much for posting this. it is an absolute travesty in this country that ANY of
its people are without real shelter, food, care. the fact that there are those who dismiss the homeless and poor as "mentally ill" is beyond sickening. it's the kind of crap I expect to see on the site that shall not be named, NOT here.

the truth is, most americans are about one paycheck from the streets, and we all know it. one accident, one lost job, one illness--and there we are.

frankly, I truly wish that those who dismiss the truth of the situation would have to experience it for themselves.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Makes the U.S. and its citizens a global disgrace. n/t
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #24
51. All human needs should be met
absolutely...I believe your wish is coming true everyday, many of the folks experiencing lack of healthcare, bad water, lack of shelter, loss of jobs are those who denounced programs that would have provided these...Part of the system's means is to fool many of the people into thinking they are different or better...we're all in this together, and we'd better join forces soon...
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mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
26. The thing that's harder and harder to miss
is how many elderly homeless we have here now. Mostly they don't look like ours, mostly they look like they came here from somewhere on the continent. It's heartbreaking to see them. We do what we can.

Thank you for your post.
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #26
54. You do know that "the continent" used to give homeless people one-way tickets to Hawai'i, right?
Edited on Mon Nov-29-10 05:24 PM by KamaAina
It would sadden but not particularly surprise me to find out that it's happening again. :eyes:

Long time I nevah spahk yah, seestah! Pehea 'oe? :hi:
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mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #54
64. Maika'i au, pehea?
Yeah, I think it's still going on, and it's so sad to see these kupuna! We're all getting older I know but dang...
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #64
74. But your kupuna....
...fresh outta ice floes



All the aunties and unkos deserve to live in peace and comfort!
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #54
73. Like this?


Yup, the musical chairs of homelessness...

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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #73
78. Yup, pretty much like that
except to get "those people" across the ocean rather than just down the highway. :eyes:

Sad postscript: The heavily Dem Hawai'i legislature tried to turn the tables last year by passing a bill to "voluntarily" send homeless people back to the mainland!
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #78
103. Well, now... it was the Aloha Spirit... they were doing it to be kind and thoughtful.

After all, they didn't want "those people" freezing to death, donchaknow...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9646196

I suppose I need to add the :sarcasm:


Homeless people as ping-pong balls, batted back and forth across the ocean.....

:nuke:
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #73
86. please pardon my french...
but that headline is un-fucking-real. How could a person be so insensitive?
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #86
101. I deal with just that kind of insensitivity every fucking day, so I can attest that it exists.
One woman told me that I should go to Iowa.

Huh?

I don't have any relatives there, I don't know a soul in that state... never even been there, but I should go to Iowa?

Her reasoning.... the cost of living is less there.....

So, I ask her... is that just *me* who should go to Iowa? Or should the other homeless people in this town go to Iowa, also?

Should all the homeless people in this state go to Iowa?

Should all the homeless people in the nation go to Iowa?

How are the Iowans going to feel about that?

You see, it isn't bad enough to be homeless... we have to also put up with the amazing ignorance.

Try it sometime... you will see just how stupid and hateful your fellow citizens truly are.

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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #26
63. the elderly
in this country are so forgotten and neglected...such a waste of wisdom and resources, and to think some have to live out their days in homelessness and indigence is beyond egregious. Thank you for your post too.
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #63
87. and that is a shame...
I spent a lot of time with my grandparents growing up, and learned so much from their older friends and relatives- most of whom had survived the great depression and a lot who grew up (and still lived) in Appalachia.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 06:55 AM
Response to Reply #87
98. Appalachia
the land of disappearing mountains, and forgotten rural poverty...sorry for the tangent...I grew up in NYS Appalachia, and yes it exists...

My grandparents were wonderful sources for me too...wish everybody would relate their grandparents to all the elderly...think of gramma homeless... :cry:
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Withywindle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #26
70. It's the elderly homeless I see that bother me the most, honestly.
Edited on Mon Nov-29-10 08:18 PM by Withywindle
Even more than the children, as obscene a judgment as that is to make. Children have their whole lives in front of them and a lot more possibilities to get lucky and turn things around.

The elderly--not so much. Their years are limited and their bodies are declining. They are painfully aware of this. And yet they are the mothers and fathers and grandmothers and grandfathers of current generations. They have worked their whole lives. They have seen changes that we younger people can't imagine experiencing; they are our links to history and they carry so much wisdom.

Don't they deserve, at the LEAST, some comfort and security and dignity and respect? Nothing damns us more as a culture than abandonment of the elders, IMO.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #70
75. As one of those, I appreciate the sentiment....


We are disposable, and even on DU are thrown in with the garbage waaay too often.

HOWEVER, the moment we begin to say this segment or that segment deserves the attention, we have thrown the power to those who are glad to see the divisions.

There is absolutely NO reason for ANYONE to be without a home or enough nutritious food to eat in the richest country in the world, and until all of us raise a ruckus on this, nothing will change.
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Withywindle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #75
81. Totally agreed. I don't mean to judge.
I think it's obscene for ANYONE to have to go without safe, pleasant shelter, good food and health care in a rich country.

I just feel that in America, there is such a bullshit bootstrap narrative that has as its root the idea that EVERYONE should be sprightly, high-energy, innovative, socially-adept, physically attractive, etc., to get a living-wage job. You see this all the time in self-help books and seminars and coming from therapists. Because OBVIOUSLY if you don't make tons of money, it's because you're just not enough of a GO-GETTER.

And if you're old and wrinkled and frail, well, obviously you don't fit this competitive narrative, so there's no reason any one should care. No one is interested in your ways of surviving on the front in WWII, or the trauma you suffered and what that might have to teach us about PTSD in the new vets we're making every day. No one can possibly benefit from the knowledge of how to make your own soap and tools and clothes that you learned as a kid in the Depression. No one would possibly be interested in your stories about how the US used to have manufacturing jobs that made enough to support a family and buy a modest house....none of this will benefit the media outlets' advertisers, so of course all that experience is useless.

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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #81
100. Then I hope you will join me in protesting when DUers insist on using the "working poor" phrase.
I explain over and over and over how harmful that is to those of us who can't work, but the insistance remains.

I hope you will help take up that particular banner.
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Withywindle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #100
111. Wellll, I think that term is useful in a very specific sense.
It means people who have jobs but their pay is so low they still can't afford housing, food, medical care, etcetera. That's a specific group of people. On the face of it, it's not meant to be hurtful to those who can't work, but I can see how it could be used that way, for sure.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #111
114. Of course its "hurtful", but that doesn't seem to matter to "progressives", does it?
It is the term of choice now, so the rest of us are left out.

Does that matter?

Consider this..... many of us desparately need housing... I keep saying this but it doesn't seem to sink in... or maybe it just plain doesn't matter.

So, the housing is planned for ONLY THOSE WHO ARE WORKING. The rest of us can do without.

You like that?
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #70
88. "Children have their whole lives in front of them"...
do they really? I don't think so. Access to education is harder, making escaping poverty harder. Lack of proper nutrition causes the body to be weaker. Compound this with lack of proper shelter against the elements. Homelessness of anyone bothers me, but probably the children more than any (if i were forced to quantify it)
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #88
102. It has been shown that neurological damage occurs in children in poverty, especially
homelessness.

As you point out, the nutrition is bad, especially in the shelters that so many on DU want to tout.

They don't get the sleep they need, and as you point out, they are physically weakened from these causes, so they are more likely to get ill... and seriously ill... without the necessary health care.

People who are homeless as children are more likely to be homeless as adults.

Its a lovely game of musical chairs.

Yet I don't see "progressives" any more interested in changing it than the RW is.
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #102
112. the "progressives"...
are too busy waving their pom poms everytime the democrats give in to republicans.
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #26
85. another big demographic...
are combat veterans. We put these people in harm's way, make them do things that are not natural, bring them home then- if they have problems dealing with their past actions, tell them to "suck it up". We have to start realizing the PTSD is a real thing, and you are not a wimp if you are experience it.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
27. Rec'd. Thank you n/t
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
28. No one should be homeless -- and for decades our government has been non-responsive ..... HOWEVER ..
Elites fight back against social needs by demonizing those who are already

weakened and vulnerable -

Where did Reagan begin his attack -- on the most vulnerable among us --

the disabled!!

Those who have the least resources to fight back are favorite targets for elites/rw --

Once again we see this attempt to short-circuit empathy and compassion -- the mentally

ill have already been demonized in large part -- and to create fear of the homeless.

It finally became illegal to give anyone on the streets a hand out --

They were too visible -- and they've been swept away.

Do we even generally know where? Shelters or prisons? Not too many choices because

we have ridiculous laws in many areas which say that local governments can't provide

permanent housing -- only temporary. I'm sure we all recall the huge amounts paid by

NYC to house homeless in expensive motels/transient rental units. Nothing that would

really provide safety and security for anyone.

We are constantly be taught to FEAR the enemies of the elite --

who are those enemies? Nature, women, homosexuals, AA, Native Americans, people of

color, in general -- Jews and now Muslims -- and like the homeless, anyone else

reduced to a pretty much powerless personal state by predatory capitalism and the new

means-spiritedness and inhumanity of right wing governments.



The right wing elites are also pulling your leg when they tell you that more individual

volunteering and or contributions will solve the problem. That's a lie. It can be a

minor and temporary aid -- a bandaid -- but it is NOT a long term solution.

ONLY A PEOPLE'S GOVERNMENT CAN BRING THAT LONG TERM SOLUTION --



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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #28
35. A government of by and FOR the people
that is not an oligarchy run by pure capitalists would stench the flow of impoverishment. Equal distribution of wealth to provide for all human needs to all humans is the only human way.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 03:44 AM
Response to Original message
30. Giving the Homeless a face
Anchorage photographer Clark Mishler has been taking portraits of our homeless people for a few years now. Here's a link to a story about him and his project that was on our local news tonight. The photographs are amazing.

http://www.ktva.com/ci_16729596
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #30
36. Wow, I heartily recommend this post.
Beautiful faces, the faces of real people, thank you so much. I heard nothing about mental illness or substance abuse either. What validation for these people. 66 died in the past year in Anchorage...at least they won't be forgotten by this man.
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #30
89. great post...
in each pic you can see the pain in their eyes- but you also see a bit of defiance and the human spirit.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #89
96. I think the photos are beautiful and complex.
I'm a photographer myself, but portraits are definitely not my strong suit. I'm really in awe of these shots.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 06:45 AM
Response to Original message
38. Thanks for all the recs and thoughtful comments...
I'd like to reply to them all, but I'm lucky to have a good job (for now) and I have to go there. Again, thanks! and please kill this system so we can build one where homelessness doesn't exist! Oh and share this with your representatives if you can! :fistbump:
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
39. Capital ascendent and homelessness explodes. Coincidence?

Capitalism creates poverty.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #39
57. No coincidence...
The capitalist's need to accrue all the wealth, means more and more are being denied basic needs, housing, health care, food, etc.
The system is inhumane, humans need to act on this, now.
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
40. Huge K&R, with thanks. Also, a sharing and a question....

May I copy and paste (crediting you) and share this post in a blog?

Here is a site I'm fond of -- giving people a face and a name: http://invisiblepeople.tv/blog/

This sister site gives homeless persons and those struggling in poverty a voice online: http://wearevisible.com/index.html

:)


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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
41. If intelligent progressives cannot get over their


"us" and "them" mentality, we're going nowhere fast.

It's pervasive: the "us" and the "them"


"Well, they're without housing because.....they're crazy,
they're on drugs
they're alcoholics"

As long as they are a "them" and not an "us" they don't "deserve" more than their pitiful lot...


But homelessness has nothing to do with arrogant claims such as these. Homelessness has to do with A LACK OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING.


Developers built lots of McMansions; there has been no incentive to build lots of dwelling for fixed income/low income people.

We're like India without the rickshaws

our "untouchables" scramble on the streets, and more and more are just children.







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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
42. Here is something I wrote a couple of years ago on homeless vets
It seems relevant in this discussion.

2/27/2009

Every war has left us with a hard core of spiritually injured veterans who subsist somehow on the margins of society. With the unprecedentedly high incidence of subtle brain injuries, Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, and similar conditions in our new crop of veterans, combined with our failure to evaluate and treat them during the Bush years, I suspect that we may be facing a set of problems that will profoundly affect the character of our society for many years to come.

The vast majority of vets from previous wars have managed to reintegrate themselves into society, not always quickly, and usually painfully, but nevertheless in some measure successfully. What's different about the ones who didn't make it, the ones living under the bridges or sleeping on heating grates or freezing to death in an abandoned basement somewhere, dressed in tatters, hand locked around the neck of a liter of rotgut?

Well, most of those people are addicts or alcoholics or both. Some are psychotic as well. Most of them began their addictions when they were still in the military. The psychoses mostly showed up a little later.

A funny thing about addictions and addicts--people say "He's an addict" and lean back as if they have not only explained something, but have given themselves an excuse not to get emotionally involved. They treat the addiction as if it were the root cause of the problem, then they assume that the addiction arises because of some moral failing in the addict, so it's really the veteran's own fault that he's sleeping under the bridge, and that relieves us of the obligation to be concerned. What a wonderful, comforting blanket of self-justification for inaction one can weave.

The problem is, addictions don't just arise out of thin air. People start using drugs and alcohol for a reason. And, incidentally, the addictions are not primarily physiological problems. Cut off the supply to one drug, and they will simply switch to another. The meth epidemic began when people could no longer get cheap cocaine.

Addictions are not about poor moral fiber, and they are not primarily about physiological dependence. They are about something else. They are about drugging away psychospiritual pain. People do drugs for the most part because the drugs quiet the demons in their heads. People get those demons, for the most part, as the result of experiencing severe, emotionally damaging abuse, neglect, or trauma. The dry psychiatric term for these demons is Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, or PTSD for short.

There is nothing quite as effective as a war for creating psychospiritual demons. Thousands of veterans are still living with the demons they acquired in Vietnam, and we are about to be flooded with hundreds of thousands of new demon-haunted veterans from Iraq.

Most drug and alcohol treatment programs are quite ineffective. One massive study of inpatient VA programs showed that only 20 to 25 percent of the graduates were still abstinent after one year. The reason for this is that the treatment programs work on what is often termed a "medical model." They believe that they are dealing with physiological problems, that the major issue for the user is coping with physical cravings for a substance to which his body has become habituated. But the physical habituation is only part of the problem, and in most cases is the least part of the problem. Conventional treatment does not address the real issues, which are the psychological ones.

We have a new generation of techniques for coping with PTSD and related emotional problems brought on by exposure to extreme abuse and trauma. One such method is called EMDR (short for Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing). Another involves a combination of brainwave biofeedback and talk therapy. However, these methods are relatively expensive because they are conducted in series of individual treatment sessions and require extensive training on the part of the therapists.

Thus the veteran problem is by no means an easy one. Most of these individuals will require a combination of expensive psychotherapy and substance abuse treatment. Some of them, particularly those with severe mental illnesses, will require hospitalization while treatment is provided. They will need help learning new job skills. They will need housing, food, clothing, medications, training, and jobs.

We will only manage to cope with the problem of homeless veterans when we own up to its enormity and commit ourselves to providing the care and help that they need. Are we willing to do that? Are we willing to do that at a time when we find ourselves trembling on the verge of a new global depression?
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. kicking to keep this very important topic in front of us
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #42
58. You should do an updated OP on this...
the stats are getting worse...thanks, very sadly interesting.
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #42
92. great post JP...
like Sherman said- "War is hell". The great injustice is that people who have to face this hell are just thrown back into the population. They cannot admit to having problems dealing with their action in war, because they will be labeled wimps and cowards. Each war generates more homeless people.
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burnsei sensei Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
44. First of all,
I just wanted to address this:
Oh, and btw, I worked my ass off during the supposedly "prosperous" times and STILL experienced homelessness so I can tell you working hard is *not* the answer. end quote.

The answer to homelessness lies not in work, but in the value of the wage, the purchasing power of the wage-earner, and the markets. If certain people are priced out of the market, then yes, there will be homelessness.
And this homelessness will be, and is, of a structural nature which is much harder to address and solve.

The mentally ill have always been exiles in their own country. The only difference in the last 30-40 years is that the exile has become an institutional fact; something enshrined like our Constitutional principles.
The mentally ill are homeless because people want to feel safe and because they want to feel safe without thinking that they are imprisoning anyone or paying for institutions. In other words, society decided to make the mentally ill trash without the can.

Concerning the homelessness epidemic in the present day-- the society has simply piled another set of exiles on top of the ones existing before.
Confrontation with intense poverty was what created the Progressive Movemment in the 1890s.
Then, people seemed to understand that it wasn't just a matter of cleaning the streets, but changing the life experience.
Now, when our citizenry seems so much more vacuous, the solutions have gone back to merely cleaning the streets.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #44
67. "the exile has become an institutional fact"
yep. Crush the institution.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
45. My security guard class info agrees with that 16% stat.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #45
50. Thanks for the coroboration!
I'm pleasantly surprised there hasn't been a lot of the reverse.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
46. Outstanding OP. Thank you very much.
Glad to give this a K&R.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #46
62. sometimes anger is a great inspiration...
As another said, this is a travesty...thanks!
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Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
47. What A Sad State Of Affairs...Tragic! K&R n/t
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postatomic Donating Member (478 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
48. Even without the statistics
To paint the homeless with a 1000 mile wide brush just shows the lack of compassion and understanding that some people have.

How someone becomes homeless and how they adapt to that horrible situation can cover a wide variety of possibilities. Only the ignorant will make a blanket statement that throws a group of living breathing human beings into the same pot.

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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. "Only the ignorant will make a blanket statement that throws a group of living breathing human
beings into the same pot."

And that is what happens, and that is exactly what they are.

And it happens at DU ALL the time. Sadly, not one of those who uses that huge brush have come to this thread and said, "I was wrong" or "I stand corrected" or anything else. And next time it comes up, they will cling to their ignorance, and keep posting it.

:yourock:



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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #49
55. ---
I was hoping you would see this.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #49
60. We'll have to keep posting back!
and telling the truth!
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #49
93. admitting one is wrong...
is an adult trait. Hell, I have gone off half-cocked before and later got fed my serving of crow. We have a bunch of juveniles (maturity wise) here.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #48
61. Thanks for this. nt
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
53. That's probably a higher percentage than among freepers and teabaggers.
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
56. Did it ever occur to anyone that life on the street might drive people to drink and/or use?
Or is it just easier to dismiss them as "a bunch of crazy drunks and druggies"? :grr:
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. those that do abuse...
Edited on Mon Nov-29-10 05:47 PM by maryf
can't be blamed in my opinion. I'm amazed at how many homeless people maintain their sanity and sobriety, I think I'd be falling off the wagon myself, and it's been years since I drank...

That so many maintain and keep going just blows me away, I have more respect for these homeless folks than for any CEO...
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #56
76. I appreciate the understanding. The acknowledgement of the STRESS is very rare.
However, the point is that DUers and "progressives" in general still cling to the myth that homeless people are "mentally ill", -- even Thom Hartmann.... the rare times he even mentions homelessness....repeats the same crap.

It is time to make this a myth that disappears.... to get everyone who claims to be a Democrat or "progressive" of any stripe to avail themselves of the truth, and stop repeating the Raygunite lies.
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #56
94. yes- there are two types of depression...
clinical (based on things like chemical balances) and situational. Many people, including people living paycheck to paycheck, suffer from situational depression- I, myself, have suffered from this in the not too distant past. Sometimes people just want to forget about the ever present worries and stress and just relax a bit.
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TNLib Donating Member (683 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
66. The homeless I encounter on the street (pan handlers) appear to be mentally ill
I once passed by a man that started jabbering at me incoherently. I kept asking him "what did you say" and I can barely make out what he was saying but he asked my for 25 cents I felt so bad I gave him a 10 dollar bill which was all I had. He looked at the bill and spoke very coherently Thank you mam and suddenly seemed sane. I often wondered if it was a con.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. Has to be hard to ask for money...
consider that...
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TNLib Donating Member (683 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #68
77. I don't begrudge the guy even if it was a con
When your down on your luck you gotta do what you gotta do. Just as long as it's not illegal or hurts anyone
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #66
71. One example does not make a statistic.
This is the problem, and it is what is known as prejudice... people meet one or two or 5 people with the same characteristics, so they base ALL others in that category by those examples.

Most homeless people you meet you don't know they are homeless.
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #66
95. do you know...
how extremely hard it is to ask for money? If what you say is true, maybe the rest of the "act" was a self-defense mechanism.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
69. Would that we could say the same about Politicians and Big Business and Banksters
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #69
72. Yes, lack of a heart can cause mental illness
Edited on Mon Nov-29-10 09:30 PM by maryf
and it's rife in the profit mongers and power brokers...
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Bryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
79. Kick
too late for me to rec so here's the kick for the homeless...
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
80. too late for a rec (sorry to miss it), but a kick nevertheless

:kick:
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
82. too late to rec....
but here is a kick
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
84. kicking to keep this very important topic visible.
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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
90. Kicking. n/t
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
91. That's a funny definition of "clean and sober".
Edited on Tue Nov-30-10 01:09 AM by boppers
The OP follows with: '38% of homeless people were dependent on alcohol and 26% abused other drugs'

You can get mindlessly, hopelessly, smashed on alcohol every few days without ever becoming dependent... Most of the Homeless population I've worked with are closer to (actually higher than) the VA numbers, where the criteria is not "dependent" but "experiencing problems".

Of course, I should mention that my experience comes directly from working with homeless people who are seeking out Harm Reduction programs, so that definitely alters my perspective.


edit: typo
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 06:51 AM
Response to Reply #91
97. But it means over 60% are sober
and if you read the OP the neglected "unsupported" troops make up a huge proportion of substance abusers...how many that you work with are vets? I bet quite a few...
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 07:01 AM
Response to Original message
99. I think those stats change from place to place.
In my small city we had a state mental hospital. Some years ago a heartless, cruel governor (Engler) closed all those facilities. Just up and closed them! So now the state sends these poor folks a check every month and they are somehow suppose to figure out how to cope. Heartbreaking stuff. Our homeless population has a higher percentage of those with mental difficulties than average due to this.

Julie
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #99
104. The point is not the NUMBERS themselves.. the point is the ignorant labeling of ALL
homeless people as "mentally ill".... and treating us/them as such.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #104
106. Yes, I realize that.
Didn't realize there was only one level of discussion on the matter allowed.

Julie
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #106
115. Zing. Maybe as more find themselves hurt by the stereotypes, the realization will become clearer.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #104
107. Yes, I realize that.
Didn't realize there was only one level of discussion on the matter allowed.

Julie
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Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
105. What I don't understand about homeless people
is that many of them, at least in my area, have dogs. First off, I wonder where in the heck they got these animals. Secondly, if they can't take care of themselves, how are they able to afford the upkeep on an animal?
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ceile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #105
108. You would think.
However, many of the homeless I have dealth with would rather die than give up their animal. Some will sleep on the streets on a cold night instead of go to a shelter because the shelter won't take dogs. It's the only thing that keeps them going; that gives them a reason to live in some cases. It's hard to explain, but the animal gives them a bit of control over an out of control situation.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #105
116. A dog is great company, great protection, and very cheap to feed....
also a warm sleeping buddy, would you begrudge anyone any of this? And if someone lost their house would you demand they give up their dog? Do you have a pet?
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lightningandsnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
109. If I was homeless, I would be part of the supposed "insane" 16%.
I have bipolar disorder.

I think people should break down stigma around mental illness, not talk about how "crazy" mentally ill people are and how they're nothing like them.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-10 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #109
117. Excellent point...
the stigma of having a mental illness is such a burden; as is saying one is an alcoholic or drug addict...when one is homeless one is beyond stigma, they are trying to survive. To have an invalid stigma foisted upon one, not shameful, but not true, is very difficult, especially when you're trying to maintain a semblance of normalcy. There is nothing wrong with having bi-polar disorder, no one can be blamed for being homeless, but to be called something stigmatizing falsely on top of being homeless is really a lot to bear on top of trying to survive.

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