It's curious to observe many of the same people accusing Obama supporters

of simply following a "Cult of Personality" are now fawning all over Julian Assanage and trying to prove the case for his historical significance and value to American society.

No comment on it, just an interesting observation.

posting here anymore. I suspect most just stop by to lurk a while and rec or unrec a thread.

But I intend to post more often now. Grantcart leaving was a bit of a wake up call to me. We need more support for the Democratic Party on Democratic Underground.

Though I'm not getting into ranting with others. I do check in, and usually post, daily

:hi:

I have a good instinct about people. I really like Obama, and truly believe he is doing a great job under very trying circumstances.

laugh. :hi:

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being pure enough for DU.

I never called anyone a name. The only "spin" word used was "fawning". I'm pretty sure that isn't on any of the banned word lists.

Thanks.

I intend to post a series of OPs today to remind everyone just who our President is and all the good he has done for our country.

It's time to stop the madness and remember who we are.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9647756

We would do better to apply for FOIA requests under this than listen to Assanage's ego trip.

I added the 2010 link to yours. ;-)

:hi:

Of course, you probably already know this.

That said....I applaud your efforts.

Besides, most of the naysayers I have on ignore. I couldn't read their complaints if I wanted to.

:rofl:

it's just the way people are.

until that hero turns out to be only out for themselves. Assanage is not on "our side" IMO.. He is just out for himself.
Just wait. It will be like Bev Harris, Madsen, seventhson, Leopold... and every other person that some build up and then turns out to be either nuts or a charlatan.
I can see value to maybe leaking documents about torture, but this latest stuff is like tabloid gossip. It's done strictly to hurt US interests.
Now if anarchy and bringing down the USA is what people here want, fine...then Assange is your hero.

Your last two sentences are SPOT ON imo!

:thumbsup:

makes me all the more skeptical.

:thumbsup:

And how is keeping them secret of any benefit to us?

So I'll give you a

Now if anarchy and bringing down the USA is what people here want, fine...then Assange is your hero.

Preach it, sister. Although I have come to believe that some of the folks rooting the hardest for Assange haven't put more than 4 seconds of thought into it either way. :hi:

http://www.last.fm/music/The+Presets/_/Down+Down+Down

Why so serious?

good post.

Sid

If he had any courage he'd step forward and spend time imprisoned like Gandhi or Dr. King. You know, real champions of justice in the world.

He's putting his ass on the line. You? Not so much.

Assanage is no more putting his ass on the line than Roman Polanski is.

Which, considering his ranking on the PTB's shit list, is pretty understandable to anyone not trying to discredit him.

I was responding to someone's claim of Assanage being transparent (while leaving unspoken the inference that Obama is not transparent).

I'm an antidisestablishmentarian. I have no use for internet anarchists and don't believe they add anything to our value as a society.

to avoid American prosecution. And some assholes blindly worship Polanski too.

Assange isn't even that brave.

You think Assange has no courage? Really?

At least Salman Rushdie created something on his own before going into hiding. Assanage is no better then my out of state relatives that keep forwarding right wing e-mails.

I think he's a coward with access to information. If he had courage he'd be out in the world.

Exposing oneself to danger without benefit is not courage, it is foolishness.

:shrug:

He's about as "transparent" as Bin Laden.

stronger unless you have some sort of point short of just finger pointing at others.

or broad brush smear against a group of people at DU? It certainly seems like it.

And nothing more. Do you doubt the truth of what I've observed?

which a person may feel one or the other is justified, but not necessarily together.

Just an observation.

No message, just an observation.

Where can I find that?

Most pictures of him online have him with jacket and tie too.

I need that!

Standards get lower all the time I guess.

Who is standing up against torture and rendition? At least wikileaks is informing the public, this is much more than most.

I am afraid that I do not do 'personality cults'. Obama may be in the wrong place at the wrong time; a president in an era where no one would succeed. Being black does not help.

The two men are not comporable.

:rofl:

It always happens. On a ticket with Elizabeth Warren! :rofl:

After Feingold/Grayson, of course!

Suggestions that Assanage run for President are as stupid as those for Scwarzenegger.

ever had...

You'd have to in order to dump the information he has on the public.

And he's just one person... a figurehead, if you will. There are obviously many within our own government who are disgusted by our coup-supporting, anti-democracy foreign policy.

The real heros will be the ones who succeed in punishing those who have perpetuated America's crimes upon the innocent citizenry of other nations.

why not just say what you wish to imply and be done with it... these posts are goofey and infantile. Notice all the unrecs? The kicking here is not helping you much.

Exactly where in my OP did I mention DU at all?

Where is the smear? Was it "fawning"? That's the only "spin" word I used and I don't believe it is banned from use in anyway on DU.

It's curious that the left insists on being able to bash Democrats from a left perspective but they don't want to be bashed from a Democratic perspective.

until I grab some coffee?

lol

you are claiming that the 'DU left' has a cult of personality problem with Julian Assange but hiding that obvious smear by putting forth the equally false theory that this same DU left routinely attacks Obama supporters here for having a cult of personality problem, and that the issue is one of 'double standards' - a standard rhetorical use of equivocation to cloak the actual attack.

And you got the message.

Meaning a nearly equal number of Recs and Unrecs. I'm pretty sure you mis-spelled "goofy" as well.

Just correcting the obvious mistakes you missed in your first edit.

thrown by the desperately obsessed cult members. They raise up, throw a punch, and dive back in their hole.

Really cute.

Thank you for affirming her opinion.

its hard to make a cult of personality claim, when most people evaluate the actual work of wikileaks rather than develop a bond with assange.

He's done no more work than any Facebook page owner does.

Obama, however has done more actual work for civil rights and nuclear non-proliferation than any President in my life time.

The cult of personality about Obama, began much before obama could work on non-proliferation. It began with posting pictures of how handsome he was, how gorgeous his family was, how wonderful his speeches were. I hardly see that about wikileaks.

I will admit to personally having a cult of personality issue with Bill Clinton for a long time, and I see the same reactions from others to Obama. I hardly see it with Assange

Till Assange (by the way, you consistenly add an extra A to his name) came under threats and attack, i barely even heard his name mentioned. It was his work through wikileaks that became famous.

Admiring someone's work and admiring someone's looks/charm are very different things. I am not saying that Obama hasn't done some very good work as a President, he certainly has, but to compare the worshipping he gets, to Assange, is a huge stretch in logic.

His only national exposure before that was the "One America" speech at the Democratic convention before that.

Thank you for pointing out that I'm mis-spelling his name. I will spell it correctly from here on out. Assange has taken no risks until he steps foot inside the Untied States and makes himself subject to potential prosecution. Until then he is no more a risk taker than Roman Polanski is.

i think Assange puts himself at grave personal risk.

I am not sure i necessarily approve of all documents leaked by Assange, but I do know a bad argument and your cult of personality argument is just not logical. There has to be a personality to worship, and Assange isn't that familiar to people.

The reason I dont necessarily agree with leaking all documents, is because i do believe that some foreign relations require diplomacy. And diplomacy by nature is secretive. However people could have a difference about opinion on this, without being accused of indulging in a cult of personality.The cult of personality continues with Obama, when liberals and democrats forgive him for things they wanted to burn Bush over. Its about Obama, not about a value or ideals or beliefs. If someone else did it, it would be wrong, if Obama does it, it must be ok.

Assange is (a) shortly going to be crushed by the Most Righteous and Manly Superpowered Infallible Soldiers of ChristAmerica to teach every terrorist-loving lefty a lesson, or (b) a cowardly nobody because he isn't putting himself at any risk.

You can't have both.

I don't have to have both. I'll stick with B.

Specialization yields better performance.

:shrug:

If you admire anybody I don't like, it's worship! :crazy:

:cry:

Just saying.

:thumbsup:

policy instead of personality, and instead have to resort to strawman OPs where they all come in and have a great big "yeah, i totally agree" circle jerk.

I'll have to kick them to the top for you.

or achievement. It has less to do with my OP and more to do with repudiating your response to it.

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I'm not sure what you are saying exactly. It seems that you are trying to get me to commit to your assessment that my OP is a personal or broad brush attack, which it is not. I don't even mention DU in my OP.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Yes, your OP is a broad brush attack on those with whom you disagree, and it's couched in a strawman argument that people have to be "worshiping" Assange just because we don't have a problem with the leaks.

And since I have no idea why my posts keep getting deleted, I'm just going to bow out before I inadvertently get myself in trouble. :shrug:

The OP is a broad brush statement, but not an attack.

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:mad:

"fawning all over Julian Assanage"

Just sayin'

There's deep appreciation for the concept of Wikileaks -- short-circuiting the "National Security State(tm)"...

A desire that it continue...

And gratitude that even if the functionaries of the Corporate States of America "take him out" there will be dozens ready to take his place...

Nice try at a red herring though... :shrug:

I posted a sample up above. He's just another fame monger obsessed with his own image.

I fully expect a year from now, he'll be posting White House grocery bills just because they were given to him. Assange doesn't care about truth at all beyond the fact that it get's him on TV and in Magazines.

"fawning" over someone's spread in Vogue. :shrug:

is risking his life...

To tweak the nose of the Empire...

And expose their Crimes...

For a picture in a magazine?

---------------------------------------------

If you do, you're more shallow than you could EVER believe him to be... :eyes:

I think Assange is just exploiting their efforts for his own gain.

you are SERIOUSLY deluded...

Assange has put himself in the cross-hairs of the nastiest Empire to sit astride Earth in human history...

Just to get his picture in the paper...

What a curious world view you have... :eyes:

Void of any content or substance.

I see his name paraded all over the internet but very little mention of the man that is suspected of providing him those documents. Assange only cares about press for himself, not "truth".

No matter what.

Hence, no content. Just a fallacy.

I've seen this canard thrown at lots of people before. Obama himself, for instance. Richard Dawkins. Alan Grayson. Linus Torvalds. Steve Jobs. Hell, even liberals sometimes do it, referring to manifestations of approval of some right-wing figure.

Brings zero information. It's just a standard rhetorical procedure. "No content", is, therefore, the most spot-on assessment of it.

Threads calling for him to get a Nobel Prize, vote for him as Time Person of the Year, repeated uses of "hero", etc.

I remember one Democrat in particular who was called "the ONLY Democratic leader worth a damn", "ONLY one with scruples", "comparable to Ghandi", "should be a 'saint'". Literally. That's creepy.

OKNancy said it well here with examples: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9647631#9647760

(OK, it's all right if there's fewer than that.)

You think they rock, because of what they say/write/do.

Because you're a person with functioning brains (a fact I had the opportunity to personally confirm), it's not fawning, fanboyism or worship. It's just that, admiration.

Then somebody comes and starts painting broad brushes at the "mindless" "fawning" and "worshipping" of that person(s).

There are fawners, fanboi/grls and worshipers of the hero-of-the-day. I don't think *YOU* are one, but they are there.

I've seen that before, about other subjects.

Hell, I can't say that "The Ancestor's Tale" is a great book without getting that crap. And don't get me started about Linux.

Well, FTR, *I* don't think you are "one of those". ;)

As is usually the case, the truth lies somewhere in-between. There are some people fawning and there are some with reasonable admiration.

So is this knee-jerk OP... :shrug:

:shrug:

In most things there is a preponderance of Truth and Facts on one side of an "argument" as opposed to the other...

It's the recent propaganda trick of big media (the most effective propaganda machine in the history of the world) pretending that "both sides" (as if there are only two) of the argument have equal validity that has destroyed rational thinking...

Especially here in the Empire -- The Corporate States of America...

---------------------------------------------

So the OP started off with a pair of serious logic errors...

1) That those who applaud Wikileaks and hope that Assange can survive to release more documents constitute a "Cult of Personality"
2) That those who criticize Obama's weak administration are accusing Obama supporters of constituting a "Cult of Personality"

Neither of these are true so the OP is basically bullshit designed to attract flames and get attention for the poster's other (equally fallacious) threads...

The same sort of thing that the OP is accusing Assange of in this thread, eh?

How curious... :shrug:

Regardless of any perceived 'fawning' on your part. I see people proud and supportive of both Assange and Manning.

The other, not so much. :(

than any president in my lifetime (I'm 40)

The other is manufactured internet sensation like Tila Tequila.

Just an observation.

Just an observation.

In reality, the lives of the people I encounter have not improved, even slightly, as a result of this supposed onslaught of supposedly progressive legislation.

Just an observation.

Do you really think this kind of argument convinces anyone of anything, other than that your arguments lack substance?

I support what Assange is doing (at great risk),
and I'm not fawning, and I do not accuse Obama
supporters, including myself, of being in a cult
of personality. Unrec for flamebait.

Yep, I agree...

Truth and Justice are subversive now days...

1) That those who applaud Wikileaks and hope that Assange can survive to release more documents constitute a "Cult of Personality"
2) That those who criticize Obama's weak administration are accusing Obama supporters of constituting a "Cult of Personality"

Neither of these are true so the OP seems to be designed to attract flames and get attention for the poster's other (equally fallacious) threads...

The same sort of thing that the OP is accusing Assange of in this thread, eh?

How curious... :shrug:

:hi:

... or the US get a bloody nose as innately good. As if making it making it extremely difficult for the US to practice diplomacy makes us a safer and better country.

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that the Obama bashers and the Wikileaks lovers share the same short sighted views. :sarcasm:

that the Empire has no clothes...

Nor any legitimacy...

Most of this crap is gossip (Gadaffi's big boobed nurse, and Putin's "bro-mance" with Berlusconi) and tidbits that most people already knew. It doesn't do anything but make diplomacy more difficult.

Wikileaks isn't trying to expose anything, it's just trying to embarrass.

but not to exposure...

Hooray for Wikileaks!!! :woohoo:

... now that no one will be willing to speak openly with our diplomats out of fear it will be leaked.

Anyway, the more difficult it is for the Empire to do its "business", the sooner folks might get the idea that the status-quo...

Consisting as it does of;

The National Security State(tm)

The Permanent War Economy(tm)

The Corporate States of America(tm)

The Wars on <fill in the blank> (tm)

And (most importantly) the destruction of Mother Earth for the short term profit of the Global Corporate Capitalist Masters...

Are all BAD ideas!

And we should make them try something else...

That the days of cheap fossil fuels are nearly over...

That burning all of that fossil fuel to power an "infinite growth economy" on a finite Earth is causing Catastrophic Global Climate Destabilization...

That the phony Ponzi-scheme capitalist "economy" built on debt money is unsustainable and is (hopefully) finally collapsing under its own weight...

And is creating misery for the 90 out of 100 folks on Earth who benefit very little from that "economy" (if at all) during that collapse...


And nothing Obama (or the republicrats or democans) are doing will do shit about the above crisis of the Long Emergency...


And you get all kerfuffel about some leaks from the bowels of the "National Security State(tm)"...and characterize people who applaud another small step to end the "Permanent War Economy(tm)" that's stealing resources from the job we MUST do if large air-breathing mammals are to be able to survive on Earth as "short-sighted"...

Now THAT'S short-sighted... :eyes:

You make a silly, faith based claim, unsupported but allegedly common as hell. I think people are discussing what that man did, not who he is or his personality in anyway. The event of the release is huge news, like it or not.
And you do comment on it, with every characterizing, McCarthyite word your twist out out of your keyboard.
"Many say" you claim, as do all who have no proof. Many say. Many say many say many things, chum.

Blowers Alive. Many say. Many.