So you have a pay freeze for two years but still have a job with benefits.

Really?

Do you want to go there? My drawings that are submitted for review by my large metropolitan city review staff still takes three weeks. Of course no layoffs there and nothing is being built, but still three weeks for a fucking landscape plan. You think you can get a phone call to them? No again. Still voicemail. The city is screaming about cutbacks but still no one gets laid off. But the boogeyman they throw out is "well there goes the police and fire"....which is used to scare people.

Federal? You federal workers really take the cake, as I have NEVER hear of a person fired, laid off, or anything to that effect, and I deal with those agencies in my profession a great deal. But go ahead, get pissy about your pay freeze, while people like me, with two college degrees works at 1/3rd pay, no benefits, and about 10 hours a week. Go ahead, endear yourselves to the rest of us dying out here.

but since people ensconced in a Federal job don't get it, well...

getting angry at the wrong people...get angry at the people who are keeping wages down DELIBERATELY!

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So your solution is to bring down federal workers to your level because you are too afraid to fight for more?

There are no winners in a race to the bottom.

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One day some will get theirs if their is any justice.

In any case, quit blaming someone else and look in the damn mirror.

Union Workers make.

They are entitled to EVERY DAMN DIME.

BTW-
Do you even realize how this OP makes you look?

Do you even realize that rethugs & freepers are the ones that are jealous and hate well paid Union workers?


:think:

situation better, lol.

wrong-o. it will make it worse.

will decrease demand, not increase it; will hurt families, not help them; will add to the deficit, not reduce it; will put downward pressure on private sector wages, not upward pressure; and won't do a damned thing to increase hiring in the private sector.

in short, it will exacerbate deflation, not fix it.

pfft to your attempt to scapegoat government workers.

You think that by them diggging in is going to help anyone get more? You must be joking.

firing them doesn't help a deflating economy, it makes it worse.

you can speak to that point, or you can keep on spinning shit.

Of course deflating wages and firing people is bad and making things worse. The federal employees are going to push us into a worse situation? How can it possibly get worse?

A question I've learned it's best not to ask. The answer is generally forthcoming.

It contributes to it.

You shouldn't be bitching about them getting more. You should be bitching at and demanding more from your employer! This is exactly the mentality and attitude that TPTB want. Congratulations, you're doing just what they were counting on people to do.

east coast/government central/axis of federal work paradise, things are different out here.

Union workers took the initiative to protect their interests, why do you think you should get the same benefits (the ones you don't already get, that is) just for sitting on your ass and bitching about it on a messageboard?

with your years of expertise, I'm sure you can snag one of them federal jobs for yourself (they're hiring all the time)?

You sound like you're one of those "If it's good enough for me, it should be good enough for everybody else," people. So- go get better. Then you'll have no reason to let resentment build.

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the great unwashed and unworthy rug) and get back to us.

Throughout this thread you are repeating RW memes and slurs. Why?

You are wrong at the wrong people.

Anybody who could post such a lame thing obviously doesn't work in the real world. The USA where 500 people apply for one crummy job.

considered a model for private wages, of course.

Of course you did; you're a smart one, right?

but you've let the Heritage Foundation Press Room decide this issue for you.

:sarcasm:

You would rather drag everybody down to your shitty level.

How fucked is that idea, really?

'cause that is exactly what I got out of your OP too.

in fact he does GET IT and so do I. He said it right.

You go on a rant about how bad Federal workers are, blasting out the usual RW memes that Fed workers don't get fired, etc., rave about how shitty your job is, and thus Feds should get a taste of what you are stuck with.

But rather than spewing RW memes and trying to tear down Fed workers down to your level, perhaps you should put your energy into raising yourself and your profession up. You know, things like forming a union, taking legal actions, etc. Or perhaps you should simply look for a better job:shrug:

But whatever you do, stop whining, stop trying to drag everybody down to your sorry level. You're like a lot of idiots I meet who want teachers to get paid the same scale as convenience store clerks because, well, $30,000 is more than they make. Start comparing apples to apples, jobs to the same sort of jobs, and you will find that the private sector pays more than the public sector, especially when you get to the top of pay scale, CEO's etc. I've yet to see a head of any government getting paid tens of millions of dollars.

But rather than going after those CEO's, whose pay scale has gone up at a skyrocketing rate over the past thirty years(I think a typical CEO's pay is now 438 times the company's lowest paid worker), you want to go after Federal workers? Wow, talk about working against your own self interest.

Sorry, not buying it.

You have unions and similar organizations for other such professions.

But apparently you would rather whine about Fed pay scale than try to do anything to raise your own standing.

Again, working against your own self interests. How stupid.

Oh, wait, there are unions for architects. Perhaps you should join:shrug:

<http://eaaunion.net/>
<http://www.aia.org/practicing/groups/international/uia/AIAP073960>
<http://www.architectsunion.com/>

Why would you presume that giving advice in such a way makes it advice to be taken. You are not in the fields so you could not know, except for a google session.

Wow, OK, whatever.

For your information, I'm currently an unemployed teacher. In past professions though, I have organized unions in two social service organizations, which not only improved matters for the workers there, but also the clients.

What is so special about being an architect that you can't organize or join a union? Apparently nothing, since other architects have done that very same thing.

me telling what YOU should do, even though I am not a teacher, AND completely missing the point by saying that your school board should keep getting raises.

That about kinda like it?

I weep for your charges.

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Geez, everybody that I know who is unemployed, including myself, would love to get any kind of job, including one as a two bit hack underemployed architect. But then again, nobody I know is denigrating those who have jobs, any kind of jobs, in some sick, twisted race to the bottom.

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you are a boring mess.

Why knock it when your upset with what you want and don't have?


I work in city government. If not police and fire, who is it easy to get rid of? There are civilians that are paid less that support police and fire. Snow plow driver? Sewers? When I flush I want my troubles to go away and not back up on my floor. The person that tracks finances? Libraries are popular targets. Housing, plumbing, electrical inspectors etc?

The city of Omaha has eliminated a couple hundred jobs in the 13 years (this time around) I've been there. Yes. I did leave once before when I got better pay on the outside driving a truck. When I hurt my back and couldn't drive a local truck anymore, I went back to the city.


http://www.drummajorinstitute.org/library/article.php?ID=7523

Countering Anti-Public Worker Sentiment

Delivered by Amy Traub, Director of Research, Drum Major Institute for Public Policy, at the AFL-CIO's annual state legislative issues conference on July 24, 2010.

Introduction: The Right-Wing Attack on Public Unions
I was reading the Wall Street Journal editorial page last March – and by the way, I don’t recommend that, reading the Journal editorial page: it’s enough to spoil your lunch any day of the week – but on this particular day, March 26, I almost fell out of my chair. The headline proclaimed that “America’s most privileged class are public union workers.”

You know the Wall Street Journal: this is the paper for the billionaire bankers who just got multi-million dollar bonuses after taxpayers bailed out their companies. Yet they were pushing the line that sanitation workers are more privileged than the guys running hedge funds. They were arguing that a firefighter’s ability to have a decent retirement was a threat to the country. This, from the folks who just crashed our economy. In New York City where I live, we call that chutzpah.

Of course, the Wall Street Journal wasn’t alone. Pretty soon the same anti-worker, anti-government lines I had been seeing cooked up in the right-wing think tanks, the Heritage Foundation, the Manhattan Institute, the Reason Foundation, were appearing as editorials in mainstream newspapers and on TV programs. And then politicians –- including some elected officials who had previously been friends to labor – started to find there were political advantages to echoing these lines. “Get tough on public employees!” I think they’re making a big mistake, but we’ll get to that later.

There’s a smokescreen going on here: an attempt to exploit city and state fiscal crises to promote an anti-government and anti-worker political agenda that the right wing has been nurturing for a long time. They’re doing an excellent job right now, I have to say, of deflecting attention from the real causes of our economic and fiscal problems to scapegoat public workers. It’s dangerous, and as I will discuss in a moment, it’s part of an effort to foster a race to the bottom in workplace standards and to undermine and delegitimize all unions, whether you’re in the public or private sector. But first I’d like to clear up some of the misinformation.

The big conservative talking point is that public employees earn more than private sector workers. But that’s true only if you completely ignore the context. You can’t compare a professor at the University of Louisville with someone flipping burgers at Wendy’s and argue the professor with a Ph.D. is overpaid because she’s not making minimum wage. (At least not with a straight face) Yet state and city jobs, from teaching to social work to staffing a public hospital, disproportionately demand more educated workers.

FULL story at link.

abroad... you might not cal it a union... but it does have a function of one.

not in the US. Time to get to it, doncha think?

What do you think the word ABROAD means? Next county?

Didn't take Econ 101, and I see didn't take geography 101 or poli sci 101 either.

and I know that workers need to develop a sense of class... and act as one, or they will be walked over repeatedly. In the US organizing is seen as something alien, almost something furiegners do.

So we are getting to the point, well past the point, where workers stand up. and REFIGHT the battles of the past, or next stop will be survival wages, if we are lucky, and dawn to dusk work days. Yes dear we are going back to the early 19th century.

So get your head off that RW memes you are repeating and read a few books. Start with "There is Power in the Union," recent book

http://www.amazon.com/There-Power-Union-Story-America/dp/0385526296

You could also read on the Past of the Labor Struggle and realize why May Day IS a very American holiday... google Haymarket affair... and realize we either fight. or I hope you do not mind having kids working at your shop. I mean they are really cheap, and can fit in places adults can't... assuming you do both the design and the installation. Just remember, to work those kids until they are exhausted, and school... snort... they don't need no stinking school. And that is where the RW wants to take this country to... and where you, not having a clue about class solidarity, are helping them. I don't blame you... just the propaganda machine. and the destruction of the working class runs apace. next objective the civil service corp... I mean cronies would be so much better.

No wonder you're pissed off, but that's not Fed. workers' faults.

Nobody said it was their fault.

I can only imagine what you do for the wives' dinners.

I don't want to condescend - I know what you're going through sucks righteously - but a lot of people have been where you are, and even more, outrageous numbers more, will see it in the not-distant future.

Even without the discrimination, you are in the unfortunate position of being a working professional in an era where, now that blue-collar workers have been decimated, you're next on the chopping block.

And I really am sorry.

What I'm sorriest for, of anything, is what a great job our masters have done at turning all the working classes against each other. I wish you better luck and hope you'll be able to turn your anger where it should be, and use it to launch into action.

You wanted to come on here and excoriate federal workers because your lot in life is shittier than theirs is, and you'd like to drag them down to the gutter in which you find yourself. Moreover, when several people pointed out that you're angry with the wrong group, you just whine more, talk about stupidity, and generally feel an apparent intense need to feel sorry for yourself. It's hard to get sympathy in a progressive online community when you start by bashing federal workers and then won't listen to anything that's being said to you.

If you just wanted to commiserate, maybe you should have gone about it in a different way. If you wanted to actually accomplish something that might help you in your life, well, you came up completely empty. I'm fairly certain that bitching about federal workers, not finding a sympathetic ear, then bashing those who were supposed to pity you--as far as I can tell, you got shit out of the deal. Retooling your thinking and/or statements at this juncture might be just the thing for you. Good day.

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gloom about the overall economy.

Blatant hypocrisy. You'd do the same if it were the "rich CEOs" or whoever.

You're not making much sense.

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The OP I guess just needs to pull themselves up by their bootstraps! If you're for anything except the most pure liberalism around here you're marked for sniper fire. DU=Green Party Underground nowadays.

Jane/Joe Smith who work at your local government office are the same as 'rich CEOs'? :crazy:

Believe me, I never had the heart to complain about it nor did most of my coworkers.

Even now in retirement, my retirement association has taken a big hit because of the economy. So, no raise last March and I doubt I'll get one for the next few years. Again, I don't feel like complaining.

We're in deep crap these days and I can only hope the world can dig out of it.

P.S. I spent most of my 22 year career in state service worrying about being laid off. Once, I was laid off for several months and luckily was called back. Government employees enjoy no easy slide.

what total bullshit.

I'd bother to respond, but I'm already predicting that this will be a hit-and-run post, despite the numerous people already pointing out how flawed your premise is.

Once in a while I get to lay a few block, or hang some drywall, or pour some concrete. I need a real job. I lost my construction business when the economy went sour, couldn't collect unemployment because I had owned a business, and now have a hard time
having sympathy for well-paid federal workers with great benefits getting a regular raise regardless of the economy.

Let's tear him one. You know he's a slacker, no responsibility, bitter, and oh you get the picture.

The appeal of federal jobs is that they have job security and benefits.

So in the 90s while everyone else was doing better, they sucked it up with below industry-standard wages. Why begrudge them now?

Guess your 'two college degrees' are in a field that doesn't pay very well.


A smart person would be re-working their own life situation instead wasting time worrying about what other people earn.


Unrec for more right-wing talkin points about 'lazy gubbamint workers'...more of the same from you.

Your skinflint boss is the problem but apparently you're too scared to ask for more--but not to scared to shit on your federally employed brothers and sisters.

FWIW, I'm in private enterprise myself--but I know what determines my salary.

and sisters regardless what they do.

And I do have a degree, precious.

I'm probably not even qualified to talk to the likes of a STAMPED lawn designer such as yourself. No wonder you have a problem with federal workers. They're all commoner garbage. It had to have been distasteful for you to even type about these insignificant.....people.

Watch that pretty blue light, little bug. It'll get you.

you get registered.

You can do it too, since it's a no-brainer.

I have a private sector job I'm happy with, remember? And if and when I lose that job, I'll work very hard to find another. I've done it once before, and every minute of it sucked. I'll keep routing packets no matter what government workers do or don't do, make or don't make. It's what I do. Wailing to the known world is apparently what you do. I think I win the productivity race by default.

Just remember, there is no endless supply of jobs, even for talented people like yourself.

The wailing is coming from another direction.

I got your stamp right here, bro!

Why turn on fellow working class people?

But complaining about what others earn changes your personal situation in what positive way, exactly?


The economy isn't just shitty for you, Skippy.

Years ago, when my earning power was declining in a wage-stagnant segment of the economy, I didn't just sit there and bitch about what others were earning, I changed careers to one that had greater earning potential.


But then again, I didn't stare at my 'two college degrees' and magically hope that they'd turn into Treasury Bearer Bonds.


Oh, and hock the 'design awards'. See if you can get a few bucks for them.

Accolades never paid the bills, I found that out years ago.

Just a free tip.

Even though you've righteously lit into me on occasion. :hi:

Things are a little surreal...I need a stiff drink.






:P

The apocalypse is nigh:evilgrin:

What are you drinking? I've got scotch, tequila and some brandy in the cabinet:toast:

We wait all year for this to come out here in NE OH, and it's well worth the wait.

The stuff literally flies off the shelf.

It's freakin' awesome.

And just when I think I can't stand it anymore!

AGAIN....helping a collge friend keep his firm open. We all are getting hit.

Federal workers? OH NOES A WAGE FREEZE!

You're amusing, to say the least.

_____

Your post, pre-edit:
Well are'nt you the sage of wisdom?
Posted by Safetykitten
AGAIN....helping a collge friend keep his firm open. We all are getting hit.

Federal workers? OH NOES A WAGE FREEZE!

Really, I wouldn't want Precious to have to joing the ranks of the "non-stamped."

:rofl:

I LOVE my job and my employer, btw.

how, exactly?

Will you be able to command more for your services when a significant portion of the population is earning less money?

Will you get more business from people who have taken pay cuts and suffered the concomitant reduction in living standards?

Will you face less competition for work as the amount of dollars available in the real economy declines?

Please, let us know which new-fangled economic theory you've subscribed to that tells you government wage deflation is good for small business.

So what government wage "trickle down" are you a proponent of?

That starts a deflationary spiral. Econ 101, or didn't you take that while you were getting two degrees and some award.

Or are you really that ignorant? I would expect more sense of how things work from somebody with two college degrees.

Three degrees in five years undergrad, 4.0 GPA, great liberal arts school, oh, not to mention going to the school of hard knocks for a good part of my life as well. And I have multiple awards, and took Econ 101.

Din din is calling, bye:hi:

That's the exact opposite of "trickle down", Einstein.

Do I have that correct?

The way to increase private sector earnings is not by demanding public sector wage cuts. The government creates money, and when it employs people, that money gets pumped into the real economy. That's the way our system works.

In fact, as long as the private sector continues to net save (in large part by slashing wages and outsourcing jobs), the government must run a deficit in excess of the private sector surplus or our economy will collapse.

"The way to increase private sector earnings is not by demanding public sector wage cuts. The government creates money, and when it employs people, that money gets pumped into the real economy. That's the way our system works."

So what now?

Make sure the federal employees are the last of the entire nation to get a wage cut?

thing? And everyone jumps in the thread to rec? :shrug:

... this has coincided with increased employee contributions to our health/dental insurance. They have also ceased all contribution to our retirement accounts. it really sucks and I am sorry that other workers have to go through this.

Believe me, I am very grateful to have a job ... have health insurance. I realize I am more fortunate than others .... but, sheesh this is hard .... especially for us folk in the beginning stages of (new) careers.

and I've seen my percentage paid to my health and dental plans increase while also losing half my vacation pay. I'm still not gonna get pissy with federal workers because that's not where the problem lies. In my case the economy is killing my company and we're doing what we can to ensure we all have jobs.

Usually the union-bashers have their allies and corporate lickspittles all lined up for these threads.

the OP wasn't acting like such a b<post interrupted>

On second thought, that was a lousy example, I want to take it back.


:rofl:

Because we can't have Federal workers hurt in any way. Millions out of work, entire creative professions losing talent, jobs, firms, but Jesus! Don't let the Federal workers get nicked!

I will add this...

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

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But you are familiar with shallow situations.

help your friend? Or you? Or your situation? Or that of workers in general?

Perhaps that's the problem.

Too bad the administration isn't pushing green collar jobs; perhaps you could have landed a "cake" one.

<http://thinkprogress.org/2010/03/01/bunning-transportation/>
<http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/state&id=6299856>
<http://blogs.northcountrypublicradio.org/inbox/2010/06/01/paterson-says-he-will-lay-off-thousands-of-state-workers/>
<http://www.wgal.com/r/13666348/detail.html>

Happy now? Does that warm the cockles of your cold little heart? Feel better now that government workers have been feeling your pain and more.

Ptthew, I spit out your RW bile.

Your accusation has finally brought my suspicions to light. I think they're all federal workers, and they're after us. Oh, they'll deny it, no doubt. But we know the truth, you and I do. And remember, if they call you paranoid, that's just a ruse to hide the fact that they're FEDERAL WORKERS, living off of the rest of us.

Well, I'm a state employee, so there goes that theory. ;) you've been awesome on this thread. Well done.

quite ugly by the way.

I really need to talk to the rabi about my guv'mint job. BUSTED!

Can anybody make that piza ASAP!!!!!

If they have less money to spend on the goods or services you provide how do you think that will effect your future income? Two college degrees, eh?

Don

dovetaill nicely into the mega-wealthy one.

People that have money and people that have money.

But what is landscape architecture and architecture worth? Nothing according to people here.

And part of your problem comes from the rise of technology that allows the un-educated to believe that being a master of the "Golf Course Builder" or "Amusment Park Builder" games and having a nifty basic drafting app on their I-Pad, they can be an architect or designer.
I mean, hey, I used to watch "Project Runway" - I can be a world famous fashion desinger...

It's not the work force, it's the buyer - it's the push for "the basics" - NCLB, "Race to the Top", the Chicago and/or Austrian schools of economics, Randriods - those who live in a world where surface success trumps efforts to make improvements or artistic vision.

I'd be pissed, too - but instead of being pissed at the stiff trying to keep aloat themselves, I'm pissed at those who encourage the shiny, happy thinking that is destroying economic wellbeing of the majority for towering success for the few elite. I'd also be pissed at those who created both the residential and commercial real estate bubbles, which conspired to kill your immediate customer base.

The fewer people who can afford to hire a landscape architect, the fewer customers you are going to have. And it doesn't mean spit whether or not there are federal employees making a decent wage.

Haele

by those very shiny happy thinking residential/commercial projects, that YES, made you have things to review.

Don't try to divorce yourself from the situation as it is, as you were a compliant player, as was I.

Also looking at past devotees of the boom market, you know who you are.

And don't try that "lump them all in" number as the dispassionate reviewer, as you apparently got in and out while the getting was good. And your legacy at these agencies? Reviewers who will review and comment on things they don't even understand, like the newest techniques in water harvesting, streetscape planting, smarter design and other items, desperately trying to jamb them into the little boxes that you need to check.

It's your casual breeziness of a sick reviewing system that is galling, yet you offer your advice.

Oh, and it's about people sharing the pain of this economy. that's it.

and required medicine for those in my family who need it. I and my household are "this close" to bankruptcy due to medical problems, but do I complain about my current private-corporation employer, who feeds off my hard work and profits off my experience in engineering, installations, and environmental sciences, and my customer, the Federal Government, who profits off my years of experience and knack for business practices? I understand that my customer is the Federal Government, and that my customer, for all it's faults, has not only the largest "customer base" in terms of the range of services it provides, is the largest employer of the middle class in the US, and it's not their fault that they are stuck being the last, largest employer of the middle class.

I have had a wide choice of careers and organizational associations spanning the Arts (both music and Graphic Arts), Education, Military, and Engineering, over the past 40 years, and chose the ones that served the purposes of keeping my family in some security and didn't expand additional resources that we couldn't afford to spend. I even made a go at running my own business pre-internet explosion, but couldn't stay afloat for more than a year and a half; too "artsy" for the area I was located in and I couldn't afford the advertising and business building costs to what I needed to charge to bring the most new customers in.

That you were able, through luck or opportunity, to get two degrees in an artistic field and make a career out of it, is admirable in itself.
But your customer base depends on what? Business parks? Community Landscaping? Campus architecture? McMansions, Recreational parkland?
A good chunk of Architecture historically relies on a governing organizational patronage, which in this country, means a tax base that can finance more than Communist salt-box residential cubes and simple CAD-program plantings.

Honestly, I don't care who is getting their wages cut or frozen. I just care that the lifeblood of this country's economy is being abused by predatory financing, indifferent corporations, socially engineered anti-intellectual resentment, and an addiction to elitist, shallow posturings of wealth through all the classes. And I hate the ease in which the elitist parasites in our society profit off pitting educated against lesser educated, working against professional, lower class against middle class, using jealousy and resentment to fuel the war.

Using your rant, why should there be a safety net of decent pay and benefits for anyone who works for another, just because most private employers aren't willing to provide that for their employees? Why should any worker follow regulated risk-reduction, safety or cost savings practices if it's going to inconvenience someone in a rush to get their project completed?
Why aren't there enough customers out there looking to pay good money for quality work?

Ultimately, Economy 101 comes into play, and if people aren't making enough money that they can spend on quality work that is basically a luxury rather than a necessity, they aren't going to spend the $75K + for the services of an architect to xeroscape, irrigate, and furnish the front half-acre of their "ranch estate" tract property so it complements the surrounding environment and increases the value of the property. And that goes directly to your Federal or State Govm't supervisor who's pulling down $150K a year, unlike his/her private business/corporate counterpart who is pulling down around $200 a year.

We all deserve a living wage, and fair compensation for our required experience, training, and work. I wouldn't even say you are making too much, and deserve a wage freeze - because looking up your average national starting salary range as an Architect on several different employment sites (and not the Los Angeles range, which is reported to be about 20% higher), it's more than my current FSE1 corporate employee position with top-notch benefits range (starting $40K), right about where a Federal Engineer level 2 (GS09 equiv., master's degree, 5 years experience)in San Diego (starting $42K) is.
If I go strictly by the published trade rates, you probably make more than most of the Federal Engineers in my customer's department do. If you go strictly by the published average rates, you'd think the majority of Federal employees make $75K or above, even though there are twice the number of GS05/07's than there are GS09's, and twice again the number of GS09's than there are paygrades above that.
When Bill Gates walks into a bar, the average income of everyone in that bar goes over a million dollars, even if everyone else there makes minimum wage.

I'm sorry if you're not making as much as the industry reports you should be making. LA is an expensive place to do business, and all wages are inflated to match that expense.

But letting the green-eyed monster run your life because someone who might not be as educated and as talented as you is making as much or just a bit more is ridiculous at best. It's not as if they're gaming the system to float wealth towards them, steal your house, invest in hostile corporate take-overs, and send jobs overseas while they buy their upteenth seasonal compound to create their own fantasy ranch.


The simple fact is, for your business to thrive, we as a country need well-paying, "middle class" jobs. And sadly, the vaunted Private Sector - even unionized - is too busy hunkering down, "making sacrifices" (to all but shareholders and corporate offices, for the most part) and "cutting fat" to employ any number of people on a permanent basis at wages enough above poverty to make enough of an economic machine that your business will thrive.

And unfortunately, your reviled public sector is pretty close to being the only thing holding the economy up.


Haele

I wish the administration would think about raises for GS9 and below.

He announced this just last week.

"City slashes budget, cuts thousands of jobs"

"Every agency will to see cuts, except there will be no layoffs for the NYPD or FDNY."

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/politics&id=7796039

Now you have an example of government workers being laid off. The pain is everywhere. From here on out you know it, too.

and the Navy Chief Engineer's command of around 4K federal employees and military that employs my customer got rid of about 20 "high paid engineer's" jobs (around $90K a year average) by "early retirement" and furloughed another 75 or so engineers and 42 support employees (averaging around $45K) by consolidating departments and projects over a two year cost-cutting plan. Oh, and they got rid of another 200 contractor positions.
There's about a 130 federal jobs and 200 highly paid civilian engineer (BTW - who's pay averages higher than the federal engineers, at around $102K an hour).

Federal employees lose jobs and are fired all the time, through early attrition - after 20 years, the feds start pushing you to retire, through consolidation or abandoned projects, or for cause.
They are only afforded the same protections that unions afforded, which is that they must be fired either for cause or because the job goes away.

Actually, it sounds similar to the job you are concerned about; the only real difference is your customer base.
Your customer base is whomever wants to or can afford to hire you. The Government's customer base is their citizenry and their requirements.

Haele

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The outrage around here is hilarious. Imagine if they'd gotten a raise after the social security recipients didn't. These are the same government employees raked over the coals for stomping on our rights. Hilarious. Just proof that the point is to be outraged, no matter what.

not one, except this one asks the what is now known as the unaskable, "you think we should be in the same boat as the rest of the nation in taking the hits in this economy?"

if more people's lives sucked too.

the rest of us underemployed, no healtcare people struggle with survival.

You're pointing your ire in the wrong direction.

It ain't your fellow workers who are screwing you, it's the Owner Class.

How is a wage freeze for Federal workers going to improve your lot? It won't, all it means is another cement block tied to the feet of the Working Class, it won't benefit you one damn bit.

Why I do not have it is another clusterfuck of our party and not the fault of federal workers.

Especially you.

Why not stand in solidarity with the Working Class instead of cheering for more of them to get screwed by the Owner Class?

Standing in solidarity with ALL workers will do a lot more for ALL of us than being resentful about those who haven't yet been as screwed as you have been.

Again I ask, by what logic does letting another segment of workers get screwed by the Owners improve your own situation?

That's the point people would like you to make. You are in a bad situation and you seem offended that someone else might NOT be in a bad situation. Well guess what -- that's why they formed a fucking union in the first place, so that they can stand up against shit you meekly accept.

Hurting them will not help you! How many times do you need to be told this?

And seriously -- Mao? You're calling someone "Mao" for supporting basic worker's rights? What in the fuck are you doing here?

See how fucking stupid that sounds?

I can't even begin to pry a meaning from that statement.

Try again, with clarity.

our already sorry and horrific ecomomy.

yes?

Cutting ANY workingman's pay is a detriment to our economy. Workers with money spend that money.

You'd be spending more if you went out and got a real job, right?

It is that big. It is big, because it is ALOT of money, but a pay freeze? Really?

then more power to you, ma'am. I think I'll continue to argue against weakening workers to pay for the errors of the monied classes.

Go meekly to the slaughter then. The Owners thank you for your cooperation in weakening and dividing the Working Class.

that should be a good one.

Honestly -- why the heck not?

Well, that's okay, we'll struggle on for things like single payer health care and an end to the corporatocracy without you.

I'm sure the Owner Class will reward you well for your loyalty.

Unfortunately hers is a common view.

That whole "helping a friend" thing.

and MOUs (Memoranda of understanding) with unions in other countries and see just how workers are fugged by said governments over time. We are in MOU 3. Our wages were frozen in 2004 - increases were reduced then stopped and we were told we could either accept the terms or face layoffs.
Now workers are winning case after case on court because even where the government agreed to deliver back pay from postponed increases, they usually renege on the contract.

What the hell happened to this generation? Here is labor 101: if a large sector of employees meekly allows their pay to be frozen and slashed, then the rest of the assholes who run businesses in this country go "Oh, ok, they took that like fucking sheep. Let's freeze and slash OURS too!" If the federal employees raise a stink, then there is a chance that our owners will notice we are alive down here and perhaps a brain cell will fire that we are going to make this difficult for them. Jesus. In Europe they are out in the streets over shit like this.

So what do you think has been happening the last three fucking years? Offices get smaller, people get laid off, the wage concessions, then more layoffs, then reduced hours, then more wage concessions.

Oh, I get it, the Federal workers just came to the party!

Fill them in on the outside world.

Oh and on edit....Hell will freeze over before the Federal government workers act as a firewall for the rest of us.

You tell us, since you're so special.

by producing work for less than market value? I'm sure your winning personality is a sparkling asset to any workplace. I can't imagine why your services aren't more in demand.

for a graduate to work for free. They offer their services for free.

Thinking you should get paid when patriotic grad students volunteer their labor.

:sarcasm:

sometimes in letter form, asking if they could work for free, so they could get a start in the field. I tell them not to do that, offer for free, but they are desperate to get some experience in the field they love and the degree they worked so hard for.

There will be a lost generation of LA's and architects as no one can find work and they are going to do something else. Even something else is hard to get, another friend finally got a job at the Cheesecake Factory and he's very happy he got that.

But explaining this is not usefull here, Federal workers must be taken care of. They are the linchpin of our society that cannot take any more, as if us in the private sector had any choice.

It's tough out there. And anybody who dares complain is easily fired and replaced these days. Private sector non-union professionals do not have the job protection enjoyed by civil service employees.

A kind and informed person should have some empathy.

Guess what, federal offices have gotten smaller over the same period of time. People get fired (yes that happens!) or move on and their positions are downgraded though the workload is not.

We may not get reduced hours but work longer hours to get the work done. If I'm not wrong, that constitutes a cut in my hourly wage.

When I heard about the wage freeze I thought about the private sector people I know who have been in the situation you are talking about and did not get angry. The economy is slowly improving and hopefully everyone's situation will improve.

Federal worker raises have traditionally been tied to Congress voting for their own pay raise and we get the crumbs left over from the cake.

I can handle the freeze, but I cannot handle the attitude that demonizes government workers. Most of us are not highly paid in the first place and we pay for our healthcare just like private sector workers.

Please educate yourself before attacking us.

I can't believe they are just now joining the real world

take a hit like the rest of us.

I'm glad to see that some people will stand up for their rights and use the strength of their union to be heard.

When they stay strong it buoys everyone. If they quietly accept it like you have it undercuts everyone.

Why do you insist on tearing your fellow Americans down because you are too much of a coward to fight to better yourself?

I dare you to take him up on it.

You are a real piece of (specialized, precious, wonderfulness) work.

It's just that you don't want to do anything about your unhappiness--in fact, you seem to be reveling in it..

You can either

1) Go to an area where your services are more in demand

or

2) Find a different pursuit to follow which is more in demand where you are and pays better, at least until the economy improves

You apparently expect others to do your research for you, to find your answers for you. Not a real big market for those attributes, even in a good economic cycle.

okie dokie, we call that class solidarity... NOT

People like me should fight for more money. Walmart workers should go up and DEMAND more money.

Architecture sucks and people that do it suck and get out of the profession, or better yet move.

Landscape Architecture....see above.

Federal workers are the canary in the coal mine. They should never take a pay cut, even though the ground deeper in the mine is carpets of dead canaries.

Federal workers/pay cut=RW meme.

Federal worker pay cuts will destroy the economy. (Really, don't think about it, Maryland alone will sink into bankruptcy if one penny is withheld.

Oh, and we need the votes.

Oh, and anothee thing. Our President wants it. Triangulate that.

(For the record: laid-off former salaried worker in dead industry, now working two part-time jobs, no bennies, haven't seen a doctor in 3 years and won't be able to any time in the foreseeable future.)


I understand your resentment. I share it, on some gut emotional shameful level. But goddamn it, these are NOT the right people to blame.

Oh and on edit. Yes, I like taking a stand and sticking with it. And you of all people should be batting away too. It's not about blame. It's about a protected group not getting it, or in this case not getting it on many levels.

Why is is so hard that we all have made sacrifices. They CAN'T?

Who would gain from that? How would it help ANYONE?