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Which inclines take more energy to climb? Slow and gradual or quick and vertical?

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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 07:06 PM
Original message
Which inclines take more energy to climb? Slow and gradual or quick and vertical?
At which point do they equal out?

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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. if the height is the same
the energy level is the same to attain it, just a matter of time/exertion
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. +1 n/t
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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. if the height is the same
the energy level is the same to attain it, just a matter of time/exertion
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Spike89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Not quite true
The energy required for going up would be equal, but the gradual slope would require more overall energy because you're also moving forward.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. The energy required to initiate forward motion is cancelled by the energy to stop it
Friction notwithstanding. Forward motion doesn't matter in the long run.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
4. Climbing how?
Are you taking into account energy used for just existing (eg a human being), or energy that gets wasted by going faster (eg in a vehicle subject to friction losses)?
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Township75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Glad someone else thought of that.
That was my first thought...does the "engine" operate at equal efficiency under different loads/slopes/etc?

Somehow I doubt the OP will be back with an answer, but if I am wrong, more power to that person.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. I'm back - and my question, I guess, is as a GENERAL principle...
I mean, let's just take the modifications out of the picture (gears, levers, etc) and just go with what I would call its natural state....

Same circumstances for both

Which would use less energy?
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. OK looking back at this I understand this was a bad answer
What if we are talking about an engine that is low in torque, but decent in being a Linear Motor...or whatever it is that is opposite to the torque motor.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. engines don't climb, vehicles do
You can't really match torque to efficiency, though. Torque is a measure of angular force, effectively. The torque of an engine is not related in any predictable fashion to the efficiency of the energy conversion of the engine.

Assuming this is about a car, then ideally, I think you'd want to be running the engine at its most efficient point (in terms of converting the chemical power of the fuel to mechanical power), which will be at a certain engine speed, producing a certain power and torque (torque * engine speed = power). Then be in the lowest gear the car has, and then match the incline so that the excess power over what is needed to keep the vehicle moving at that speed is devoted into increasing the potential energy, ie height, of the car. Being in a low gear means the car's losses due to air resistance etc. are kept to a minimum, because it's 'forward' speed is the lowest of your choices.
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. How much time do you have to climb?
If time is precious, energy consumption is rather moot.
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
6. Drive a loaded truck on I-40 between Kingman AZ and Barstow CA
that'll give you your answer
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. Have you ever done that before?
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
7. I'd Rather Do Slow and Gradual
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petronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
9. I'd say slow and gradual, and they don't equal out
You'll have to spend a certain amount of energy on the vertical displacement, and that will be the same no matter what path you take. But, on the gentle slope you'll have to spend energy overcoming friction for a longer time, and you'll spend more effort supporting your load against gravity.

So I'd say, as long as you can generate sufficient power, take the short steep route and get it over with...
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
11. If you ignore friction, the only thing that matters is the difference in height
Between the beginning and the end.
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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. Is that not what I said, uhm, twice?
for some reason.
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northoftheborder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
16. someone who remembers their physics please figure it out.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
17. The change in potential energy is the same. All the rest has to do with experimental setup. nt
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