Anyone else somewhat depressed? re: Nevada

I know I shouldn't be. I have resigned myself to the fact that Hillary will be our nominee come November.

It's a historic moment, part of me wants a woman as President, just not her and the Clinton machine.

Am I wrong? :shrug:

I hope it is Hillary. She's the lesser of 2 evils. In my opinion anyway. I just hope she can beat a republican.

but I can't help but like HER, for some reason. They both have their positives and negs -- I'll have a little knot of concern in my gut regardless of who wins the election.

I was surprised to find myself kind of rooting for Obama today, because I really feel I AM neutral. I wasn't cheering him on, it was more of a disappointed "Oh, Hillary's taken the lead" very subtle.

So I'm not depressed, more like subtly disappointed -- although I really couldn't tell you why.

they they'll both be 2/2. But, I'd take Hillary for 4, rather than Obama for 4/8. Yes, he can get advice from his cabinet, but that's what we have now. I want the president to make decisions, not the admin.

they both have their weaknesses. I do think Hillary is better able to jump in on day one.

That crack Obama made about his desk being a mess made my skin crawl, he's smart -- but I see him as a bit scatterbrained.

At least Hillary is as tough as nails. I worry about Bill either doing something stupid or opening his yap too much. He has been a real dick lately.

Maybe Hilary will choose Biden as her Veep?

Joe already said specifically he wouldn't be her VP;

DES MOINES, Iowa (CNN) -- Democratic presidential hopeful Sen. Joe Biden on Sunday ruled out the vice presidential slot altogether if Sen. Hillary Clinton is his party's nominee, saying her husband would overshadow the position.

"If I don't win the nomination, the likely nominee is going to be Hillary," Biden, D-Delaware, told CNN, "and I love Bill Clinton, but can you imagine being vice president?"

The former president "is such a dominant and powerful and positive force that I think the question is if you're going to stay in public life do you want to be a contributor ... I'm not looking for a ceremonial post," he said.

Biden said he would like to remain chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee if he does not win the Democratic nomination, saying that position would allow him to make "a much greater contributor to the security of the country."


http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/05/biden.vice.president/index.html

If you read Joe's book, he talked about Bill, and some....temperment issues. I just don't think he would. But if she is the nominee, Bill needs to take a step back. Just not sure he knows how to do that...


OH, my guess for her VP--Jim Webb.

we might have a widow in the White House. He is angry and not well. I see him cheney-izing before our eyes. :shrug:

It concerns me where he may be led. I think there has been evidence of that in his campaign.

He started out okay and more and more race is creeping in whether anyone wants to admit it or not and I think if you follow his speeches to for instance in black churches, you see that a lot of the time he becomes a preacher,with a southern accent with the cadence of MLK. That in itself is not a problem until he becomes the other Barack again. Just my opinion.

I guess I lean a little toward Hillary just because she has a little more experience, but I have serious doubts that either can win, depending on how the Roachpublicans run their campaign. But in the end, and this is the sad thing, I don't see any of these people doing what needs to be done to pull our country out of its current tailspin. I'm so fucking tired of the B.S. That's why I thing Joe Biden would be so good for our country. He talked to you straight like a good friend. And he seems to be able to actually see reality, which none of these other candidates seem to be in touch with. I guess it's back to more B.S.

I lean towards Hillary just because of her experience - but I don't really like either of them, and worry about both of them in the GE.

Biden was the one who could've kicked arse in the GE and would have done the same in the WH. :(

The beautiful thing about a Joe Biden candidacy is that there would have been no reason not to vote for him, particularly if you are an Independent or even a moderate Republican. A lot of Republicans don't like their choices and in Joe Biden they'd know they were going to get a solid, intelligent, experienced person who wasn't going to lie to them and screw them. He's someone they can respect. This perception does not carry over to Clinton or Obama. And when the Republican henchmen start tearing down the Democratic candidate, that's when the real frustration is going to sink in. And both of these candidates have so much for the Republicans to work with. For Hillary the attacks are already there; they just have to dust them off and start them up again. For Obama, they will have half the country wondering if he's really a Muslim. Why take the chance on voting for a black Muslim. Throw in the fact that he has so little experience, and none in foreign policy, there are legitimate reasons not to take a chance on him as well. Lord, help us.

And if Obama is the nom, you are so right about what the attacks are going to be on him.

I am going to be very, very pissed if the dems don't win in November.

I'm sending corn earworms, and locust to Iowa.

Please don't....remember it wasn't all Iowan's that caucused! Many of Obama's voters have moved on.

leaving mostly, well, the type of people who have made Obama and Clinton the front runners, a potential mass exodus of the pragmatists.

a democrat in their entire life, but they would have voted for Biden. Those same people will never vote for Obama, Hillary, or Edwards. I wonder how many of them there are.

It was going on about his alleged ties to radical Muslims. It even got his middle name wrong, referring to him as Barack Mohammed Obama. The woman, an elderly friend of my sister's, told my sister that she could never vote for Obama...and she hates Bush.

Of course, we'd all prefer Biden, but of the "top three", Hillary is the most qualified. So if we're going to have a FIRST I'd much rather have the first woman president. We've already had 43 MEN.

Obama has been turning me off a lot lately. Every time he panders to a certain group of people, he turns another group off and I'm in the generation that he has marginalized and I don't like feeling as if I am no longer relevant.

so much for the 'change and unity' candidate...

his lack of relevant experience and awkwardness in the debates. Then came the "gospel tours" which were much too religious for me - so he won over the southern black vote, but lost a lot of the base. If I wanted a preacher-type president, I'd vote for Huckabee.

Then he dissed an entire generation and an era that made it possible for him to be a viable candidate for president! I'm not ready to be put out to pasture quite yet.

Then he starts talking about Reagan, while portraying the Clinton years as insignificant. That appeared to be an attempt to attract Independents and republicans. Whoops, there goes some more of the base!!!

You know, Biden never tried to appeal to a certain segment of voters. He was appealing to American voters of all ages and all races.

And lately I have been thinking it's no wonder why he attracts younger voters, he acts like a kid himself.

I think he is getting far too much advice and as a result he is all over the place.

I want my cupcake!

I won't be happy with any of them, but I'll be LESS unhappy with Hillary.

Maybe the voters on Super Tuesday can come away with enough uncommitted....No Democrat can be pleased with the way the Democratic Party is handling itself right now. A very wise man told me that Democrats have a history of grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory. It seems we're well on our way.

You are right about the Dem party - what the heck is going on?
All of the grownups were in the second tier. Even Richardson, who was not my fav, begged Hilbamards to remain positive and to save the negative attacks for the repugs. They are like a bunch of drama queens - and they all have equally dramatic spouses by their sides.

I will support whoever the nominee is, and that's as far as I go. The wrong people are in this race. How I wish this was a fight between Biden and Dodd.

the chops Obama doesn't have. But the Clinton Machine really makes me nervous -- LOTS of baggage there. Their strong-arm tactics, hob nobbing with questionable power players, the reputation that if you every "cross" the Clintons you're fucked. Stuff like that. Plus, her campaign has engaged in some smarmy tactics, too.

So these are the fears (among others) that rise when I think of Hillary. AND, looking back at Bill's terms, he did a lot of things that WEREN'T right for the American people. There's no way he wouldn't have a lot of influence in her WH.

So along those lines, I'd welcome someone who isn't as proficient at playing the game as the Clintons. Obama. But good point about his handlers -- I think his lack of experience and insecurity lead him to take advice that may not be the best, as we've witnessed during this campaign.

I want my cupcake, too, Pirhana!

I wake up and there are 26 responses on this thread. :applause:

In light of McLame's win in SC overnight, if Hillary is the nominee, I think we are in big F'n trouble.

I have this Kerry aftertaste in my mouth. :shrug:

Cheered me up. I just love Nevadans. (that place in america where prostitution is legal, but one has to wear a Helmet):P The split goes Hillary and Obama. with Nevadans seeing Edwards as the Fraud he is.

insofar as the republicans... mit taking it shows how many morons, I mean Mormons there are in Nevada. (Utah is just next door):P
those who work at brothels/Casinos everyday but vote their hypocritical beliefs. then with ron paul taking second... :P

ok back to our side. Hillary or Obama as the president/target. is ok with me either way it should go. remember they BOTH will have very High caliber Democrats (Biden, Dodd) running things anyway.:popcorn:

Yesterday at my neighborhood Dem meeting we all agreed it would be awesome for Hillary and Obama to both make it down to the wire here in Denver. having a convention where horse trading deals,:beer: and an appearance of a divided Dem electorate. would make the national convention that much more captivating. the only down side as i see it would be the "king maker" monicker Edwards would garner. then again having Hillary or Obama forced to agree to edwards supporters demands would make an even more spirited convention. :hangover: (high ratings):popcorn:

:popcorn:

I read a post yesterday that we Democrats are to put our blinders on and march like ants behind the winner of the Democrat Primary, despite our reservations of said candidate. That is exactly what the Republicans did in 04 and look what we happened. We ended up with a President that almost destroyed America. In considering either Obama or Clinton, I hear music in the background playing "You Lift Me Up" or "I am Woman". I'm not hearing or visualizing "Hail to the Chief". I thought that is what this election was about. This campaign will do more to set back Civil Rights and Women's Rights than any in history...To truly move to a blind America, one cannot pander, nor can you play the race/gender card from the top of the deck or from the bottom of the deck, both sides are playing it and the Republicans are going to make fools out of us again. We can blame the media if we want, but this is about ill informed voters...caught up in everything but what matters to this country. When are we going to stand up and say "We're mad as Hell and we're not going to take it anymore". We are facing such serious issues in this world and this country, but we continue to look to personalities over substance. I just don't get it.

The sad part is that many dems are happy with their choices of Hillary or Obama, and their supporters are steadfast.

The group of people that saw this election for its true importance - and not American Idol, are in the minority my friend.

I blame the media for alot of it. They went for the story, not for what was best for our country and the world.
They beat up Biden the day he announced his candidacy and never gave him a fair shake. As for Dodd - it was like he wasn't even running.

If you have solutions - I'm all ears (or should I say all eyes :) )

I really have no idea. Maybe work a little harder at putting real issues front and center so they have to be taken seriously. Issues like the war in Iraq, Afghanistan, the unrest in Pakistan etc. It's frustrating watching the petty fights day in and day out. Maybe we need to make more contacts with the media and request (demand) that they cover the issues.

that in itself is a suicidal endeavor. you would be labeled a crackpot and marginalized such as the truly qualified persons to BE President.

Personally I am getting comfy with the idea that the president is the target... whilst others actually run the country.
to prove it, i ask why does cheney not nor will ever run for the top job??? he has said it himself he will not accept the nomination if offered. Like reading Pravda (between the lines) he HAS the top job already. any enemy of the United States. willing to take the shot would aim at bush. (the puppet)leaving cheney the real power behind the office, unscathed. like the great almighty OZ pulling the levers behind the curtain. thats how some one else who's political mind I respect, explained it to me. Us Democrats are still weakened by JFK's Death. The vulnerability of/or the frailness of life. coupled with the neon orange target painted upon the presidents head. whomever gets the nod and actually becomes president. will have the most knowledgeable and QUALIFIED persons working for US right behind he or she standing at the pulpit.
this enables me to sleep at night. knowing Hillary just might get the RESPONSIBILITY she craves. or Obama really not knowing what he is getting himself into.

For me it's been a consistent and steady war of information. I read, read, read both online and books, and I share what I learn with anyone that will listen, and even some that don't want to. I have an email network that I send interesting articles, and occasionally my thoughts. I'm careful what I send and when, and just like here, I always include the links. I've found the most effective way to get peoples' brains open, receptive, and thinking, is to not give them too much, too fast, keep the information focused, a bit at a time, but keep building the case. I'm a teacher, and watching the light go on in adults, is every bit as rewarding as it is with children.

See if you can find a local group, that shares your concerns, and is active. One of the most rewarding things I've ever done, was going with the Detroit area ACLU to Washington on a national lobbying day to restore habeas corpus, end torture, and close Guantanamo. It's not that we accomplished that much, but it gave me a sense of empowerment.

This current frenzy of the star quality candidates is depressing. I thought the populace had wised up, and was more pragmatic, reasonable, sensible, and really interested in the issues confronting us. But that just doesn't seem to be the case. It seems that many are not really stopping to think...what can my candidate really accomplish? I don't think a lot of people really understand "the enemy" and how powerful they really are.

The problem with We the People is that too many are not informed, even many here at DU. Their grasp of World/US history, knowledge of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, and global/cultural understanding is limited. I don't mean to sound like I'm putting people down. Until this lying weasel and his merry band of vile vermin took over our country, I was right there in the knowledge void, too. It's been a rude awakening, but interesting.

Most of all, Never. Give. Up. I won't go down without a fight. I'm on a mission.

I am looking forward to the end of this primary season. It's hard to stay on focus with all this squabbling over equally inadequate candidates going on. I'll support which ever one gets the nomination, because the choices in the other party aren't even remotely acceptable, but I don't plan to put the tinfoil hat away quite yet, even if the Dem candidate wins the November election. I think I'm still going to need it.

Now if Biden had won, I would have been willing to trim my hat down to a tiny, little beret, something simple, yet stylish! LOL

This Biden group is one worth listening to. Thanks to all. Truly some deep thoughts - food for thoughts here without the anger.

I consider myself in that category as well. Being so many people are relatively new to the process, they are responding from an emotional, reactionary level, which is understandable. They want change so badly, that they often don't think clearly about how that change will happen. Sadly, many people will be disappointed with the outcome.

It is a positive sign that so many formerly complacent people are getting more involved in the political process. Hopefully they will learn and evolve as they realize how much we have lost and how difficult it will be to recover our democracy that we've taken for granted for so long. I fear that many will become discouraged and stick their heads back in the sand, but there is always the chance that this could be a historical time of rebirth. I'm leaning towards the latter, but I think it may get worse before it gets better. The final and decisive tipping point will be the economy. The apathetic, opinionated folks will be awakened when it finally hits them personally.

So for right now, I am neither optimistic or pessimistic - I am prepared and aware and I intend to stay that way.

perilous the future of our country is. I decided to listen to the debates and for the first few, kept waffling back and forth, but then firmly landed in Biden's camp. It's BECAUSE of Biden that I feel I DO have a pretty realistic understanding of what's going on, and what it will take to help us dig ourselves out. He was explaining situations and offering solutions while the others were 'campaigning'. He wasn't doing "candidate speak'. As I keep saying, I have serious, serious concerns about the remaining candidates, but I feel a little better having come to know Joe, that he'll be there in Washington doing what he can for us.

As for trying to bring the important points to the media, that's futile. They're not news outlets any more, they're for-profit corporations and will air what brings in the viewers/advertisers/revenue.

I can't believe this is America. It's truly like a third world country where our information is filtered, those in power determine our future and we're helpless to do anything (just look where we are right now). It's become an evil empire, and I think that's how we're viewed by the rest of the world.
A dictator, for all intents and purposes, at the helm, the American people unaware of what's really going on, the powers that be giving us just enough to keep us from revolting -- or take away just enough to make it impossible to revolt.

For the first time in my life, I'm toying with the idea of moving to another country. Look out, Canada -- it'll be like those from Mexico crossing our boarders -- millions of Americans fleeing the poverty and suppression.

Have a nice day. :scared:

where we become so fed up that we consider leaving the country, but we usually retreat for a while and then come back with renewed determination. Most of us will not abandon the idea of our country. It is not patriotism as in "USA, USA!!!" It is the core concept of democracy that must be defended.

in with her.

Besides that Joe wouldn't leave. Can't leave him to fight alone.

You people make me laugh...God Love the USA! You're right, we'll rest and be ready to take on the challenge, whatever that may be. Biden and Dodd are still in Washington watching our backs, and they are probably better off. They won't have to carry the weight of this world on their shoulders like the next President will have to.

I'm glad that most of us have stayed together. It is such a great group of people and now we even have more.