Okay - my fellow Bidenites that went to Obama, I have a question for you.

Last nite while talking to my neighbor and my husband - both R's - we got into politics.

They started talking about Rev. Wright and how Obama sat in that church for 20 years and started talking about Michelle's wonderful comments about how she is proud of America for the first time in her life. They brought up Rev Wright's ties to Farrakan (however you spell it).

I just stood there and the only thing I could come up with is Obama is still going to win because of his ability to organize and fundraise.

WHAT do you say to these charges?
My gosh, no matter what people would throw at Biden, I could defend him.
I even got pretty good a defending Hillary.
But I could not come up with anything to say to defend Obama...what do YOU say?

HELP :)

luckily I can avoid them. But as to Michelle's statement, as I recall, read her remarks further; I think she provided a decent foundation therein.

And there's PLENTY against McCain in Ob's econ statement.

Good luck!

PS, I have not 'gone' to OB; haven't left Wes Clark or Joe Biden.

I think they couldn't wait knowing I was a Biden and then Hillary supporter.


Hey - how's your mom?

she's doing well.

Dad and I are bored, tho; he spends much of the day at nursing home, hanging out with her and napping; I drive him to and fro, and spend time with her. He spends more time worrying, I think than anything else, but he is back to watching baseball games, which is good. (And marlins doing well!)

not sure if it was the speech on racism everyone was talking about (I never watched it) or not.

But basically he said. Did he say some outrageous things at times? (Speaking of Wright). Yes. Did I always agree with him? Absolutely not. And I think he's also said that if he had heard something that inflammatory and anti-American, he would have left the church (or something like that).

I really can't help much - you might take your question 'out there' to those who have been with Obama since day one. They'd love to help a "convert" out. :7

Personally, regardless of whether or not Obama has heard that stuff before, I just don't get the sense that he feels that way.

Edit -- when you hear Michelle's statement uncut/undoctored and in the full context of her statement, it's not as inflammatory as it's been made out to be. Unfortunate, though -- I'm sure she wishes she could take that back.

People would get their fishing rods out and go after me!

I made the mistake of trying to discuss this at a Hillary supporters group.
That was enough fun for one day.

If you have a question you really want an answer to, I'll be your surrogate. :7 Just let me know -- and we can both learn.

The rightwingwackos have put together a list of things on Obama and people that he has associated with. I really don't know how to deal with it.

Oh - and listen to this - you know how everyone is going after Hillary saying her comments are going to hurt Obama during the GE? Well, hubby had on Sean Hannity the other nite and guess whose comments they were playing saying Obama is not experienced enough? None other than the Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. yep. "Even Joe Biden says that Obama does not have the experience...blah, blah, blah". That's the bad part of primaries. But on the other end, Romney aid some pretty nasty things about McCain too.

it was during a debate, right?

I've seen him asked about it and he essentially said Obama had come a long way, or learned a lot, or something like that.

Maybe the more he gets to know him the more comfortable he is with the idea of him being POTUS. That's how it's happening with me.

I have felt that way for a long time :)

And I will say that I am soooo proud of him for staying above the fray.
He has alot of class.

I always felt he thought Obama was smart, (I've heard many comment on his intelligence), but felt he needed more seasoning. I always thought he was leaning toward Hillary. That's just my sense of it. It was only toward the end that I felt he was maybe thinking "Hey! He COULD do this and he could be GOOD." As I said, that's kind of been my progress.

I think he said he would endorse whoever our nominee would be.
Nothing formal.

I always thought Biden had respect for both of them. I think Biden was honored when Obama asked him to become more involved in his campaign. Now Biden will be free to do so. Haha - it will be fun listening to Obama talk about foreign relations and see if he begins to sound more like Joe :)

And how could I have forgotten this one..... not only did it effect Arizona, it effected the entire Savings and Loan industry, which I was employed by.
Az lost a Dem Senator during this scandal, but Mr. Mclame managed to get re-elected.

Charles Keating!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keating_Five

McCain was part of the Keating Five.


So they next time they try to corner me on Obama's acquintances, I will happily remind them that
their candidate is a crook ;) If they tell me that Obama is a racist, I will just tell them to say what they want about Obama, I'd rather have a so called racist in the WH than a CROOK!

What do ya think??

And I will spend some time looking into it because I would like to use that argument, too. I'm not all that familiar with it, and I'd like to get some concise (yes, me) talking points down.

And the great thing about this is, it's not just rumors about him -- he was one of the five cited as being responsible for this debacle!

Unfortunately, he was re-elected, so the topic obviously needs to be revisited. And expanded. :evilgrin:

As for Rev. Wright, I'd watch Obama's race speech and his later rejection of Wright.

Speculating - I'm pretty sure a state senator and then U.S. Senator wasn't in church every Sunday? Esp. last couple of years - would he have been home every weekend? I don't know.

Should all Catholics have to renounce their faith because of the psychos who abuse children? Or on a smaller scale, in particular parishes, should the people already horrified and hurt by this give up their lifelong church?

Should all of Falwell's congregation quit when he said nutty things after 9/11? And hateful things for years? Ditto Pat Robertson?

And, the BEST response for McCain in particular is to bring up Hagee and Parsley- McCain has had to reject/denounce/something two religious leaders, AFTER seeking the endorsement of at least one of them.

A few NYT articles - print and give out next time you see these folks? Of course they might reject NYT :eyes:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/09/us/politics/09mccain.html
Published: June 9, 2008
McCain Extends His Outreach, but Evangelicals Are Still Wary

most relevant paragraphs:
"The balancing act Mr. McCain faces in appealing to both moderate voters and evangelicals was starkly illustrated last month when he rejected the endorsements of the Rev. John Hagee and the Rev. Rod Parsley, prominent evangelical leaders, after controversial statements by the two came to light. Mr. Parsley has been vocally anti-Islam and Mr. Hagee, in a sermon, said Hitler and the Holocaust had been part of God’s plan to drive the Jews to Palestine.

Mr. McCain’s actions complicated his relationship with evangelical leaders, some of whom said in interviews that the senator’s actions contributed to the impression among some evangelicals that he did not know or understand them. They argued that he should have stood by them, while making clear that he did not necessarily agree with all of their views."


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/23/us/politics/23hagee.html
McCain Cuts Ties to Pastors Whose Talks Drew Fire



http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/22/mccain-rejects-hagee-backing-as-nazi-remarks-surface/
May 22, 2008, 5:14 pm

McCain Rejects Hagee Backing as Nazi Remarks Surface

1st 3 paragraphs - sound familiar????

SAN JOSE—Senator John McCain rejected the endorsement on Thursday of the evangelical leader, the Rev. John C. Hagee, three stormy months after it was first announced as part of an effort to shore up Mr. McCain’s standing among Christian conservatives.


The rejection of Mr. Hagee’s endorsement occurred after another controversial sermon from the televangelist and pastor of Cornerstone, a mega-church in San Antonio, surfaced in which he argued that biblical verses made clear that Adolf Hitler and the Holocaust was part of God’s plan to chase the Jews from Europe and drive them to Palestine.

“Obviously, I find these remarks and others deeply offensive and indefensible,” Mr. McCain said in a statement Thursday. “I did not know of them before Reverend Hagee’s endorsement, and I feel I must reject his endorsement as well.”

The RW will play the Rev. Wright tape over and over again. I believe that I know what is in Obama's heart and I also believe that he would not endorse the themes that Rev. Wright speaks about. But I fear that this will not matter to a large part of the electorate. By the time the RW is finished with him, he will appear to be the radical angry black man that will cast fear into the hearts of middle America. I hope I'm wrong.

-P