I saw a clip of Joe on CNN!!!!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

It was just a split second - but he was giving a speech and said that when the insurance companies tell you they won't pay for a procedure - that is rationing of healthcare, and then he smiled that Joe Biden sparkling smile. :loveya:

He looked rested and tan. And as usual, was delivering a talking point with a 1-2 punch.

No one can explain things as well as he can, in ways that the average person can really understand. I can't tell you how many times, I've wanted to reach into the TV screen and shake some of these Dems because they aren't making their case. Joe knows how to connect with an audience and he can maintain control.

The dems need to hammer home that point that Joe made today.
I have seen it. My family has lived it....as am sure everyone has a story to tell about how the insurance companies rationed their care.

Let's just hold our breath that the msm doesn't go fishing for gaffes.

There are so many aspects of health care that the average person can relate to. That is why Sicko was such a big hit.

They also need to take some of the focus off the "uninsured" and put more on those who ARE insured and are still suffering because of huge deductibles, co-pays, and refused coverage for life-saving procedures. Also there needs to be constant reminders that whatever you have, you can lose in a heartbeat. If there really is anyone who is happy with their insurance plan, they probably haven't needed to use it.

companies kick you out of the hospital way too soon.
Or when they do procedures as out patient, when they really should observe you over nite.

I even had a nurse who fudged the numbers to keep me another day or two, because she knew I wasn't ready to leave yet. Was pushed out too soon and ended back in the hospital the following day and was kept for over a week. The doctor responsible probably never even knew, as I was taken to a different hospital.

Years ago I had a friend who had minor out patient surgery, went home and died the following morning in her own bed. Evidently there was a reaction to the drugs. If she had been in the hospital, they would have been monitoring her and she would probably be alive today.

I'll never forgot when my dad was in his last months, the hospital told me on a Friday at 5 pm that he was going to be discharged that evening. He was recovering from a hip replacement and was having a weird reaction to the anesthia that lasted for awhile. Anesthia and 87 year olds is not a good mix. I had nowhere to take him. It was literally - oh by the way we are discharging your father. You know why they did that...he had been there long enough. They let him stay until Monday so I could go check out nursing homes.

There's so many stories going thru my head right now, I could write a book. So much I've seen and lived thru, and one thing that's for certain is our healthcare system is screwed up.

but we don't generally hear about them. My friend was only 35 years old and had a young daughter. It was a devastating experience for all who knew and loved her.

I can remember a time when a patient had to argue to be sent home, as doctors exercised extreme caution in regards to their patients well being. With today's excessive use of drugs and little understanding about people's reactions, it is truly frightening that the medical profession is so quick to release patients so quickly. Of course, we know that insurance companies have played a big role in those decisions.

Assembly-line mentality has crept into our health care system - treat 'em, drug 'em, and move them on out. Now they are someone else's problem.

Were you able to find a decent nursing home for your father?

It left me sad & depressed. I can't believe what a mean country we live in. Moore summed it up when he said that the US is a country of "me," not a "we."

Then, later, I was surfing through the channels trying to find something to watch & I saw Elizabeth Edwards & Tommy Thompson on CNN debating health care. I really wanted to hear what Edwards had to say, but Thompson was speaking & the heartless bastard made me so mad I had to turn to HGTV or I would have thrown something through the screen.

I don't think our country is ever going to return to civil discourse. The media has given the rabid right an open forum to shout down the rest of us, all in the name of ratings. While I admire Obama's effort at bipartisanship, how long do we continue to try to work with people who clearly have no desire to work with us? How much are we going to compromise so we can say that we worked with these mean-spirited, nasty fucks? :banghead:

I gotta confess, I'm feeling every bit as hopeless right now as some of my worst moments with Bush in office. No shit. I worry if I take a period of blissful ignorance, I may never want to be informed again.

Sorry I got off topic there. I've been in a terrible mood since watching Sicko & watching the health care debate turn into the asinine circus it has, has me totally demoralized. :cry:

After eight years of Bush and republican insanity, it is hard to move forward optimistically. Those greedy SOB's did number on our minds and we aren't going to recuperate overnight. The aftermath of republican rule is devastating and I think we're all still a bit shell shocked.

I also believe that the only way we were ever going to see some major positive change was for things to get so bad, that the majority of people would finally take their blinders off and support it. People by nature can be self-absorbed and complacent, and often need crisis to hit home before they realize how much suffering surrounds them. Europeans are ahead of us on so many social issues, because their countries are older and have suffered more devastating events on their own soil. Mutual pain brought them to a higher social consciousness and memories of many wars fought in their own cities are still fresh in their minds.

It will get better. It has to. More people will lose their health care, if we don't change and the voices will only get louder. FDR could have never passed Social Security during the prosperous twenties, just like Clinton couldn't pass health care reform during the nineties when people were still stuck in the "ME eighties" mindset. The time is right.

1980 was my first presidential election. I was so psyched to vote for Carter. His message of conservation & moderation resonated with me. When Reagan won in a landslide & the Iranian hostages were released on his inauguration day, I knew the American people had been played.

But it wasn't just that. I saw that the American people did not want to hear the truth from their elected officials, but rather that everything was going to be fine & that the American life style would not threatened. It made me sad that my fellow citizens preferred delusion over truth. I didn't vote again, except for local issues like funding the library, until 2004. I fear I am having another 1980's moment. Faith in the People is not something I have much of.

I do think there is something to what you said about how young our nation is. I hope we can out grow our immature ways & maybe Obama is the start of that. I am not giving up on him, but I am not bursting with hope either.

about not having much faith in the American people, that is why I said so many of them have to affected personally and often profoundly before they'll be open to any real change. Part of it is the media and a large part is our educational system. Ignorance here is appalling, if not flat out scary.

My optimism is a cautious one. People aren't going to change overnight and sadly, many will revert to old habits once their own crisis passes, IF it passes. Of course, there are always those who won't change regardless of how they are affected. They will cling to old beliefs and sometimes religion, even if those beliefs betray their best interests.

I lost interest in politics when I was young also. After Nixon, I was pretty oblivious to most of it, though I was still a liberal. I went back to the voting booth when Clinton ran, but didn't keep up with current political events until Bush. My reawakening was accompanied by the Internet and so many new doors were opened.

I'm not optimistic about everything, but I know the health care issue can't be swept under the rug. Sick and dying people aren't going to go away, and any half-hearted efforts will fail. No amount of rhetoric or manipulation of the truth can change the reality that is affecting most people, either directly or indirectly. This national shame will not be forgotten easily.