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rabs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-14-09 03:56 PM
Original message
BREAKING -- Accord reached on restitution of Zelaya



Radio Globo and Telesur reporting agreement has been reached.

Text of the accord have not been revealed, and Zelaya negotiators on way to Brazilian Embassy to consult with Zelaya (2:54 Honduras time.) Will have to wait now to see how Zelaya reacts, should know in couple of hours.

From Telesur:

Los equipos negociadores que buscan una salida a la crisis política en Honduras, formados por representantes de las partes en conflicto, llegaron a un acuerdo que ahora es analizado por el presidente legítimo del país y el gobernante de facto.

http://www.telesurtv.net/noticias/secciones/nota/59593-NN/llegan-a-un-consenso-delegados-de-zelaya-y-de-micheletti/
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-14-09 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hope it will be good news. This is truly an 11th hour decision.
Thanks for monitoring these local sources, rabs.

Keeping fingers crossed until we find out what the answer is.
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rabs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-14-09 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Text is being studied by both Zelaya and goriletti



Until the wording is known, it is not 100 percent sure that either side will accept it.

Announcement was made by one of Zelaya's negotiators at a news conference.

Just have to wait now to see reaction of both sides.

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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-14-09 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. Desperately hoping that the Junta has yielded to the Honduran people and the world
and has decided to stand down. And I hope that the OAS running the election is part of the deal. Otherwise, how can there be a fair election a month from now, after so much repression including injury and death? I'm also hoping that, if Zelaya and the Resistance deem a fair election impossible, that Oscar Arias' recent statements are now the basis for negotiation. (He said that the Honduran Constitution is "the worst in the world," and if a fair election cannot be arranged for November, the "only solution" is a Constituent Assembly to rewrite the Constitution--what Zelaya and the poor majority have wanted all along).

There are reports of death squad mercenaries in the country, and Mitcheletti is advised by violent fascists on "security" issues. Treachery is still more than possible. It is a perilous moment.
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rabs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-14-09 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Globo reporting it may be a long day



as both sides analyze the accord. The Zelaya negotiators are now in the Brazilian Embassy.

A little more context: Hondurans' attention this day is focused on a huge soccer game against El Salvador. If Honduras wins, the national team goes to the World Cup next year in South Africa. Game will begin in two hours. (8 p.n. Eastern)

The mayor of Tegucigalpa has announced that if Honduras wins, bars, resturants and discos will be allowed to stay open late tonight to celebrate. (How generous of him. But he did not say what would happen if Honduras loses.)

So the game is sort of acting as a smoke screen for the moment.

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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-14-09 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. If he doesn't allow the merchants to have extended hours they'll lose money.
He's probably feeling some heat after all these interminable curfews. He wouldn't want to offend his base.

Thanks.
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-14-09 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. the game will take precedence
actually waiving closing times for bars and establishments is something an elected official can do. when there are elections and predictable natural disasters like hurricanes, officials routinely close bars and ban the sale of alcohol in Latin America.

obviously it makes sense to extend hours if they win, if they lose not so much as anger can be expressed in destructive forms.

can't wait for Hondurans to get past Zelaya.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-14-09 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. Gotta run. Will check back later this evening. Thanks. n/t
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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-14-09 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
8. great news! nt
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-14-09 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
9. Micheletti desmiente acuerdo para el retorno de Zelaya
06:12 PM Tegucigalpa.- Negociadores del Gobierno interino de Honduras dijeron que no hay un acuerdo sobre el retorno del depuesto presidente Manuel Zelaya al poder, el punto clave en las conversaciones del miércoles para sacar al país de la crisis política en la que se encuentra.

En un comunicado, los negociadores señalaron que retomarán el diálogo el jueves con el equipo de Zelaya, quien fue sacado del poder el 28 de junio con un golpe de Estado, informó Reuters.

Más temprano, versiones emitidas por el bando negociador de Manuel Zelaya indicaban que se había alcanzado un acuerdo preliminar que pasaba por la restitución de Zelaya en el poder.

Existe entre los negociadores una divergencia sobre si la decisión del retorno de Manuel Zelaya a la presidencia debe tomada por el Congreso la nación o la Corte Suprema, destacó AFP.

"Están pidiendo que sea el Congreso el que determine si él puede regresar o no, pero éste es un asunto legal, definitivamente es la Corte Suprema de Justicia", declaró Micheletti.

El Universal
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-14-09 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. so much for that. I actually kind of liked the one proposal where
he would be president, but under house arrest waiting for his trial on treason, abuse of authority, and whatever crimes he may have committed.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #10
19. After all these months, I wonder if you can point to any actual formal charges against Zelaya:

I'd be interested to know about actual indictments, with dates filed and reference to relevant Honduran statutes
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #19
30. here is a reference to charges
Edited on Thu Oct-15-09 09:02 PM by Bacchus39
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/21/world/main5328335.shtml

"He was arrested on orders of the Supreme Court on charges of treason and abuse of power for ignoring court orders against holding a popular referendum on reforming the constitution."


a few more details

"Zelaya still faces the same arrest order that prompted soldiers to detain him in a June 28 coup. That order, sought by the independent attorney general and endorsed by the Supreme Court, charged Zelaya with four constitutional crimes, including treason, that carry combined penalties of up to 43 years in prison."


http://blog.taragana.com/n/honduran-govt-to-greet-zelaya-with-charges-on-constitutional-crimes-if-he-returns-120718/

more: http://cnnwire.blogs.cnn.com/2009/08/23/honduran-high-court-stands-by-charges-against-zelaya/

you can research the Honduran Constitution if you are interested. although I imagine since the order came from the Supreme Court there is no appeal unless the Court reverses themselves.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-16-09 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #30
34. It would be nice after all these months to see the text, instead of 2nd or 3rd hand accounts
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-16-09 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. you should search for it then
maybe you can go to Honduras and argue before the Supreme court that they didn't have the authority to do what they did.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-16-09 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. I'm merely looking for a link. I'm surprised one's not available after all this time
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rabs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-14-09 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
11. So, someone is not telling the truth



It is halftime in the Honduras-El Salvador game and am watching live from San Salvador on computer.

Be back later to see what the Zelaya side says.
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rabs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-14-09 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
12. Where things stand as of 9 p.m. Honduras time




Victor Meza, negotiator for Zelaya, said an accord had been reached and went to report to Zelaya at the Brazilian Embassy.


Vilma Morales, negotiator for Micheletti went to report to the golpista president.


Micheletti, after meeting with Vilma, said there was no deal and that the Zelaya team was asking that the national Congress re-install Zelaya in the presidency. Micheletti said it was a matter for the Supreme Court (i.e. for Zelaya to face trial.) Micheletti said talks would resume tomorrow.

Have not seen or heard any reaction from the Zelaya camp so far but may have missed it because was watching soccer matches. There may not be any because of the massive celebrations tonight across the country (Zelaya letting the pueblo enjoy a respite from all the tension).






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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Wow, illustrated with photos and all, thanks for the update nt
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Micheletti probably is praying his snipers can murder Zelaya before this goes much longer.
If they had a legal leg to stand on they would have simply put him on trial months ago, instead of kidnapping him, and sneaking him out of the country on an airplane with blackened windows.

It never occurred to these pieces of filth he'd come back. I'm certain they thought he'd be too scared they'd have someone kill him, that he was not strong enough to walk right into a country these maggots controlled.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. They couldn't put him on trial or even allow him to contest
the poll in open court because they would have lost. That's why they had to kidnap him.

And I find it impossible to believe that no one at our base knew who was on that plane when it went there for fuel. After 9/11? I don't think so.
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rabs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Talks are set to resume tomorrow


Saw a little blurb on Telesur where Zelaya was serene and awaiting the final outcome of the talks. It will be interesting to see what Meza has to say after goriletti denied there had been an agreement.

Goriletti has declared tomorrow a national holiday but not for the negotiations.

I am not optimistic, the golpistas now have no choice but to hang on to power.

Also read earlier today that plans for the Nov. 29 elections are going ahead by the Supreme Electoral Tribunal. Yesterday there was a report that 14 million ballots already were bring printed. That raised a red flag for me, because the population of Honduras is only 7 million, including children who cannot vote. Btw, CIA Factbook says vote in Honduras is obligatory and universal.

Tomorrow should be a critical day.

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spanza Donating Member (363 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. I heard something is happening in the ONU
Something like there's a report saying that there was no coup last june. Have you heard something about this?
I got it from a site called "infosur radio mundial" (...?)

Very strange and twisted article in spanish:

Un estudio del Departamento de Asuntos Políticos de la Organización de las Naciones Unidas (ONU) sobre la causas que provocaron la crisis en Honduras, concluyó que la destitución del ex presidente Manuel Zelaya, “fue constitucional y de acuerdo las leyes del país”, confirmaron fuentes oficiales de ese organismo

El estudio de la crisis en Honduras coincide con el realizado por la Biblioteca del Congreso de Estados Unidos

El estudio de la crisis política en Honduras fue refrendado con información oficial que recibieron los expertos de la ONU en su visita al país, la semana pasada que coincidió con los cancilleres de la OEA.
Washington, Estados Unidos.

Un estudio del Departamento de Asuntos Políticos de la Organización de las Naciones Unidas (ONU) sobre la causas que provocaron la crisis en Honduras, concluyó que la destitución del ex presidente Manuel Zelaya, “fue constitucional y de acuerdo las leyes del país”, confirmaron fuentes oficiales de ese organismo.

Esta version fue conocida oficialmente éste martes por altos funcionarios de la ONU, que también coincide con el estudio elaborado por la Biblioteca del Congreso de Estados Unidos, que analizó por su lado, la situación que generó y mantiene en una crisis política en Honduras.

El documento del estudio del Departamento de Asuntos Políticos de la ONU, se fundamento con otra información (la otra verdad) recibida en la última visita a Honduras, donde convergieron con representantes de la Organización de Estados Americanos (OEA) y aprovecharon para “conocer otros escenarios que no estaban claros”.

La información sobre esta resolución colegiada de estos expertos, fue proporcionada a hondudiario.com, por fuentes oficiales que coligen las estrategias y presiones que promueven la ex canciller Patricia Rodas y el representante permanente de Venezuela en el Consejo Permanente para pedir más sanciones contra Honduras y exigir la restitución del ex presidente Zelaya, que advirtió “un ultimátum” para éste 15 de octubre.

“Estos señores están presionando y han invocado a una Asamblea Especial ante el Consejo de Seguridad, pero no se ha dado ninguna respuesta hasta la fecha, porque estaban esperando los resultados de sus propios estudios sobre la situación en Honduras, que ha mantenido dividido a Washington”, refirió el entrevistado.

“La conclusión del informe dice claramente que la destitución del ex presidente Zelaya fue constitucional. Lo que confirma que no hubo golpe de Estado y refuerza la posición del presidente Barack Obama, que nunca se precipitó a juzgar la situación hondureña, como lo hizo la secretaria de Estado Hillary Clinton que corrió a condenar al pueblo hondureño, presionada por los cancilleres de la OEA”, agregó.

Las exigencias de la ex canciller Rodas en Washington, según los expertos, se han fundamentado en pedir “a la comunidad internacional más sanciones contra el régimen de facto”, y reclamó además “firmeza” a los países para que no reconozcan al gobierno golpista bajo ningún concepto.

“La mayoría de los Estados miembros de las Naciones Unidas, después de conocer otros escenarios e información, ahora coinciden en que no apoyarían ninguna resolución de la Asamblea General de la ONU que solicitara sanciones para Honduras”, resumió al referirse a este estudio del Departamento de Asuntos Políticos de la ONU, que concluyó que la destitución del ex presidente Zelaya fue constitucional, que el mismo estudio coincide en la mayoría de los puntos con el estudio elaborado por la Biblioteca del Congreso de Estados Unidos.

ONU RATIFICA CONDENA GOLPE EN HONDURAS

NUEVA YORK, 14 (ANSA) - El secretario general de la ONU, Ban Ki-moon, reiteró hoy su firme condena al golpe en Honduras contra el presidente constitucional Manuel Zelaya, informó su portavoz en el Palacio de Cristal.
La declaración, en referencia al análisis publicado recientemente por un medio hondureño, reafirma que la posición de la ONU fue claramente expresada por la resolución aprobada por la Asamblea General el primero de julio último por unanimidad y que "condena el golpe de estado en Honduras que interrumpió el orden democrático y constitucional".
Ban, insistió el vocero, sigue apoyando los esfuerzos realizados para lograr una solución y reclama con urgencia a las partes en Honduras evitar interrupciones en estos momentos críticos de las negociaciones.
El artículo aparecido en la prensa de Honduras hacía referencia al análisis de un consultor como si fuese la posición del Departamento de la ONU en asuntos políticos.
En rigor, afirmó el portavoz, el Departamento "recibe análisis y reportes de distintos consultores, académicos y especialistas pero su posición está estrechamente en línea con lo afirmado en la resolución de la Asamblea General". DAB


http://www.infosur.biz.st/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=121:onu-no-hubo-golpe-en-honduras-&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=50
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Downwinder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 03:17 AM
Response to Original message
17. Guardian NOT AP report
Honduran rivals strike deal in bid to end diplomatic crisis

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/15/honduras-zelaya-rivals-strike-accord
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 06:09 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. My guess, after reading this: Mitcheletti doesn't want to stand down, but may be forced to,
by "the powers that be" including the military who want a deal. He has become personally attached to his "martial law" power, and does not want to be replaced by the elected president, Zelaya, even for the few months remaining in Zelaya's term. There have been other reports of divisions within the Junta. I think we're seeing one now--Mitcheletti wants to continue as dictator, but the others want to move on, pro forma satisfy the OAS et al, by restoring Zelaya, and they have the election machinery well under control to insure continued "ten families" rule.

I feel for Zelaya. He has to agree to this election, I imagine, in order to be reinstated. But there really is not enough time to arrange a fair election. We've had official fascist thuggery since June--shutdown of the media, and brutal repression of dissent. Also, there doesn't seem to be anyone of Zelaya's stature, nor his advocacy of the poor majority, running in the election (with a chance of winning). I don't know a lot about the candidates, but the sort of Puke/Blue Dog two-party rule the "ten families" have created hasn't produced good candidates (Zelaya was an exception), and they are lackluster and I think haven't opposed the coup. There is a leftist candidate, but as of last June anyway, he wasn't given much chance. (He has supported Zelaya.) Either the Puke or the Blue Dog will 'win' in a highly unfair and rigged election and the fundamental issues, which so desperately need to be addressed, will not be be addressed. But this "return to business as usual" cannot continue for long. There is now a widespread movement for reform--and even Oscar Arias said (recently) that Honduras' Constitution is "the worst in the world." (Its ridiculous provision of only one term for the president clearly was intended to prevent an FDR-type president--like Zelaya--from achieving enough power to act in the interest of the poor majority, and I imagine that's what Reagan's henchmen intended when they wrote it--that, and promoting the power of the "School of the Americas"-trained military.)

If Zelaya gets reinstated and supports the election, it's going to be difficult for the Resistance to succeed at boycotting the election. People are required to vote in Honduras. And one military general stated that the Honduran military is "not going permit" a boycott. So, are we going to see people dragged from their homes to the polling place? Put on "lists" and arrested for not voting? That's the kind of situation this is.

This election should have been put off, but that doesn't seem to be "on the table." It should be run by the OAS, not this Junta-purged government. And it should be about fundamental reform, not tweedle-dee and tweedle-dum. And if that's what goes down, there is going to be a whole lot of trouble to come in Honduras. The leftist democracy movement is not going to go away.

------------------

By the way, does anybody know if the one-term limit on the president is a limit on successive terms only. In other words, can Zelaya run again four years from now? Someone asked me that today. I think it's a ban on any future additional term, but I'm not sure.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. I'm pretty sure you're right. That was the impression I got some time ago.
Some material I read near the beginning of this rotten situation I got the impression that as it stands now, it's a one shot deal for the Presidency currently.

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Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Ouch.
" ... it's a one shot deal ... "


Let's hope not.




:scared:





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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Oh, boy! Bad choice of terms, there. Sorry. For sure, if they can't get him to back down,
the pudgy little coup leaders WILL no doubt ask their former death squad leader, Billy Hoya, they have reactivated as their security head to hatch a fool proof murder plan.

It doesn't seem they are in any way inhibited by the fact the ENTIRE world refuses to recognize their filthy coup, and they're not worried many of us know about their violent torture and murder of dissidents.

Hope they will be thwarted somehow in their intention to rule Honduras more directly.

Scary picture, B.B. I could only think of those hydraulic platforms they've positioned around the embassy, containing coup-controlled snipers. Fat, pasty-faced, squishy soft rich guys vs. the people of Honduras.

http://www.indybay.org.nyud.net:8090/uploads/2009/09/22/640_roberto_micheletti.jpg

http://www.indybay.org.nyud.net:8090/uploads/2009/08/05/honduras-coup-leaders.jpg

honduras-coup-leaders.jpg

These are the coup leaders: 1) Carlos Flores Facussé; 2) Rafael Leonardo Callejas; 3) Cardenal Óscar Andrés Rodríguez; 4) Adolfo Facussé; 5) Armida de López Contreras; 6) Schucry Kafie; 7) Elvin Santos; 8) Emilio Larach; 9) Enrique Ortez Colindres; 10) Pastor Evelio Reyes; 11) Felícito Ávila; 12) José Alfredo Saavedra; 13) Jorge Canahuati; 14) Jorge Yllescas; 15) Juan Ferrera; 16) Juan Ramón Martínez; 17) Carlos López Contreras; 18) Billy Joya; 19) Ana Abarca; 20) Rafael Ferrari; 21) Juan José Pineda; 22) Vilma Morales; 23) Marcia Villeda; 24) Renato Álvarez; 25) Ramón Custodio; 26) Rafael Pineda Ponce; 27) Olban Valladares; 28) Pastor Oswaldo Canales; 29) Ricardo Maduro; 30) Romeo Vásquez Velásquez; 31) Porfirio Lobo Sosa; 32) Ricardo Álvarez; 33) Antonio Rivera; 34) Guillermo Pérez Cadalso; 35) Mauricio Villeda; 36) María Martha Díaz; 37) Antonio Tavel Otero; 38) Luis Rubí; 39) Toribio Aguilera; 40) Ramón Velásquez Nassar; 41) Elán Reyes Pineda; 42) Luz Ernestina Mejía; 43) Martha Lorena Casco; 44) Rodolfo Irías Navas; 45) Rigoberto Chang Castillo; 46) Mirna Castro; 47) Gabriela Núñez; 48) Hugo Llorens.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. By the way, here are two photos of the She-Wolf, right-wing Congresswoman Ileana Ros-Lehtinen
with coup leaders Ricardo Maduro, and Micheletti. It would be a 3-way tie for the Most Repulsive title:

http://media.bonnint.net.nyud.net:8090/apimage/623b0be9-a6c4-4dc7-820c-fa8d26a901b0.jpg
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rabs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
25. Update (noon Honduras time)




Talks are stalemated.

Globo just reported that group of golpista businessmen met with goriletti yesterday and told him they would NOT accept the restitution of Zelaya. This would explain why goriletti denied there had been a deal.

Zelaya meeting with his negotiators at the Brazilian Embassy.

O Estado de Sao Paulo reporting a high-level Brazilian diplomatic mission is on the way to Washington to discuss the situation in Honduras.

UN leader Ban Ki-moon issued statement condemning the coup in reponse to golpista press lies that UN had said that UN considered Zelaya's ouster as constitutional.
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spanza Donating Member (363 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Gracias por la aclaratoria n.t.
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rabs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. De nada,

Globo reported the UN statement before I saw your post #24.

Radio now saying "Opus Dei" business men went to see Micheletti yesterday to pressure him against restitution of Zelaya.

Talks to continue at 1 p.m.

It is D-Day for Honduras.

btw, suggest you tune in Globo. Fascinating step-by-step narrative of what is happening.

http://www.radioglobohonduras.com/chat.html




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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Well, it's hard to know who is pressuring whom. I may still be right, that Mitcheletti
has begun to like being dictator, and won't allow a solution to this untenable situation in which he has to step down. He could have INVITED "Opus Dei" business men to come support him in this. Maybe he's pressuring them. Hard to say, not knowing the source of the report (and even then it would be hard to say). OR, the opposite may be true: He wants to settle it and step down and they won't let him.

The latter would be a good negotiating ploy--his reps agree in the talks to reinstate Zelaya, but he then claims to be under "pressure" from this group or that group.

I wonder where the generals stand in all of this. They all could be just dicking around, DELAYING release of their vulture grip on the country as long as possible, to appear (to the outside) to be reasonable, to blame failure of the talks on Zelaya, to exhaust the opposition and go ahead with their "you must vote" so-called election. This is beginning to have a Bushite stink about it (Florida 2000). Exhaust the other side, make the other side's only choice seem to be rebellion/revolution ("blood on the streets," as I believe Al Gore said), and above all keep your grip on power and call in all chips toward that end. Zelaya's only choice will be to call for a boycott of the election. The military has said that it "will not permit" a boycott of the election--whatever the hell they mean by that. And the onus for the disorder that the juntaists will cause may fall on Zelaya.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. I wonder what they mean by "'Opus Dei' business men," by the way.
Self-flagellants? The Cardinal's golf partners? Brokers for the selling of "indulgences"? Very holy timber corporation executives? Odd way to describe "business men."
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rabs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Update at 8 p..m. Honduran time



Talks continue at the Clarion Hotel in Tegucigalpa. In four hours (midnight) the ultimatum by Zelaya runs out. Golpistas still stalling on main point -- restitution of Zelaya. Globo said that if there is no agreement, Zelaya would be issuing "Communique No. 1," whatever that means. Will check back in at midnight.

___________________________-

Opus Dei

When I lived in Chile during the Pinochet era, wealthy and other powerful supporters of the dictatorship were often said to be members of the secretive Opus Dei.

They included powerful businessmen, top government officials (civilians), important media figures and other non-military pinochetistas, most Catholic, others not. All were extreme right-wing zealots fanatically opposed to anything socialist, communist, Christian Democrat, Social Christians and all other left parties and organizations.

Think the Hondurans are using the term as a synonym for their own homegrown rightwing oligarchs.

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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. "...high-level Brazilian diplomatic mission is on the way to Washington..."
I read too fast and missed the import of this before. It's a very interesting situation as to Brazil, which is hosting the real president of Honduras in its embassy in Tegucigalpa, and warned the Junta off from its poison gases or whatever the hell it was doing to the embassy, with a UN Security Council emergency resolution ("Hands off the Brazilian Embassy, Creeps!").

There have been a couple of dramatic events in which Lulu has helped less powerful countries, with new leftist presidents--notably Bolivia and Paraguay--through the difficult transition to better government. On Bolivia, Lulu told the white separatists that Brazil would not recognize or trade with their secessionist regime--a big blow to those couptsers (who were trying to commandeer Bolivia's main resource--its gas reserves--of which Brazil and Argentina are the main customers). On Paraguay, Lulu promised to help the new leftist president re-negotiate Paraguay's hydroelectric contracts with Brazilian multinationals to get Paraguay a fairer deal (--and subsequently followed through on this). Lulu also helped Hugo Chavez at a very perilous moment, circa 2006, when the Bushwhacks were again trying to assassinate and overthrow him. (The assassination plot had been hatched in the Colombian military, and was to be coordinated with a false poll by Penn & Schoen*, saying Chavez wasn't going to win the 2006 election, which was supposed to inspire rightwing riots, when Chavez won the election by a big margin (fair and square). The Bushwhacks had also sent down their dictate to South American leaders that they must "isolate" Chavez. Lulu chose that moment, two weeks before the Venezuelan election, to visit Chavez for a big whoop-de-do celebration of the opening of the new Orinoco Bridge between Venezuela and Brazil. His endorsement of Chavez couldn't have been clearer.)

Lulu's role in backing leftist democratic governments, and pulling Latin American countries together, is not well covered by our corpo/fascist press, and you have to piece it together from bits and pieces in the c/f and alternative press, but it has been a very significant role. He is quite passionate as to establishing Latin American independence, fending off US intervention, bullying and crime, and has particular concern that his big and prosperous country help "raise all boats" in the region (and, NOT be like the US, sinking all boats in the region?).

The c/f press covered his ridicule of the "blue-eyed wonders" of the World Bank/IMF and Wall Street for their BAD advice to Latin American countries, and is saying how happy he is--and how right that he and his allies were--NOT to take that advice (de-regulating their finance and banking industries, for instance). Brazil and Venezuela, in particular, landed on their feet in the Bushwhack Financial 9/11, because they had defied Washington's dictates. The c/f press didn't like these "blue-eyed wonders" being insulted in this way, and stunk up the airwaves with the "controversy" that Lulu is a "racist." This little media "controversy" was very telling. Lulu exposed the lies on their business pages and in their editorials. Prior to that moment they loved Lulu, and praised him as a "centrist" (as opposed to "dictator" Hugo Chavez, "friend of Fidel Castro"), and had all been salivating over the Brazilian "miracle" as a triumph of "capitalism" vs Venezuela's socialism (also doing quite well, but they never admit it). They just don't have a clue that these countries and their leaders are working very closely together to produce a powerful new Latin American trade block committed to independence, democracy and social justice. Or, more probably, they are well aware of it, and have been deliberately trying to sabotage it, by lavishly praising Lulu and demonizing Chavez.

Lulu was on to them.

It is no surprise to those of us who have been following these leaders closely and analyzing the corpo/fascist propaganda 'news,' to see Lulu emerge as a central figure in defending President Zelaya and Honduran democracy--with his audacious and remarkable provision of the Brazilian Embassy in Honduras to the real president. It's too bad that Obama didn't do this himself--didn't want to, or couldn't--for it would have been a spectacular entry into a new US/Latin American foreign policy. No more coups. No more coup attempts. No more bullshit. A new day! Lulu, on the other hand, has proven himself to be a gold-plated champion of the people! He seems to have been trying to drag Obama/Clinton into this new era--into enacting their stated policy of peace, respect and cooperation in Latin America. But they are so bogged down by corporate and war profiteer interests, and kow-towing to the bad guys, and so compromised by their own deals for power, that they just can't seem to do the right thing, in Honduras.

This "high level" Brazilian mission to Washington, on behalf of the people of Honduras and their ousted president, is probably one more effort to get them to see which side they should be on, if they want to get anywhere at all in this new Latin America. They have their miseries with the dangerous rightwing in this country, to be sure. I think I understand their caution. And I think they may even have shown some cleverness in this situation (keeping the matter out of Congress, for instance). The Honduran coup is a rightwing, Bushwhack minefield for them. But, geez, you really have to decide "which side are you on?"--as the old song says--at some point, in a situation in which the good side and the bad side are so clear. Lulu has made his decision. Has Obama?

--------------------------------

*(Mark Penn, a paid agent of the Colombian government--later revealed in a scandal that hit Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign, since Penn was her chief campaign advisor--had to extract himself from his partner Schoen's evil deeds in Venezuela. This broke up their business partnership. Penn is a bad guy, but not so obvious about as Schoen.)
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rabs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
33. Update at 9:52 Honduras time: Talks extended by 12 hours


gorilettis asked and got an extension of 12 hours, until noon tomorrow (Friday).

Zelaya negotiator Meza at a news conference inside the Brazilian Embassy just said that it was "one last chance" for the dialogue to continue.

Meza said what has been agreed to by both sides so far is a "consensus," a sort of "preamble" to an accord.

He said the two sides had agreed to 95 percent of the 12 points in the San Jose proposal. But he did not say where the issue of the restitution of Zelaya stands at the moment because he could not reveal details while the talks are still on.

Meza mentioned the words "social convulsion" if no agreement is reached.

(Info from Globo)









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rabs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-16-09 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
36. update 12 noon Honduran time

Deadline was to have been noon today.

Golpista negotiators have now asked for three more hours, until 3 p.n.

(Looks like Zelaya is granting the extensions so that he will not be blamed for any negative outcome.)

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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-16-09 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Oh, boy! Afraid to guess what happens in 3 hours! Thank you for the update.
Someone should tell Micheletti he needs to get out for a few minutes, to get some fresh air, take a walk for a few blocks by himself to clear his head, and relax, before hammering out the agreement.

He'll probably get his spirits lifted by the admiration and applause from the Honduran people in the street.
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rabs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-16-09 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
38. Globo update: 4:15 p.m. "No possibility of an accord."


Looks like the negotiations have collapsed. This is what radio is reporting; no official comment from golpista regime or Zelaya but things look bleak.


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rabs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-16-09 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
39. Patricia Rodas says negotiations have broken down.



Talks in Tegu have failed completely. (Un fracaso rotundo.)


She is speaking in Cochabamba, Bolivia at the ALBA conference. (Live on Telesur TV)
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