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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 01:30 PM
Original message
Venezuelan Yukpa Indigenous Community Attacked, Two Murdered Following Land Grants
October 14th 2009, by James Suggett - Venezuelanalysis.com



Mérida, October 14th 2009 (Venezuelanalysis.com) -- On Tuesday, the day after the national government granted more than 40,000 hectares of land to Yukpa indigenous communities in northwestern Venezuela, assassins attacked the community of Yukpa chief and indigenous rights activist Sabino Romero, killing two and injuring at least four.

Romero's son in law, Ever Garcia, and a young, pregnant Yukpa woman were shot dead in the attack. Romero received three bullet wounds and is currently in the hospital in stable condition, according to reports from the community. Romero's daughter, grand daughter, and nephew were also hospitalized with bullet wounds, and are now in the hospital in stable condition.

Romero was one of several Yukpa chiefs who led land occupations last year to demand that the government pay indemnity to the private estate owners and transfer the land to the Yukpa in the form of collective property, in accordance with the Venezuelan Constitution and indigenous rights laws passed by the government of President Hugo Chavez.

Since the land occupations began in July 2008, the Yukpa communities involved have been subject to repeated death threats and attacks by thugs believed to have been hired by large estate owners and their local government allies.

In August 2008, estate owner Alejandro Vargas participated in an attack on Romero's community, during which Romero's father, a community elder of more than one hundred years of age, was beaten and killed.

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/4862

This is the approximate area, followed by a big map for comparison:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serran%C3%ADa_del_Perij%C3%A1



An earlier story:

Venezuelan Government Accelerates Yukpa Land Demarcation but Tension Remains
August 28th 2008, by James Suggett - Venezuelanalysis.com

Mérida, August 28, 2008 (venezuelanalysis.com)-- Responding to President Chávez’s instructions last Sunday, Venezuelan government officials promised this week to accelerate the granting of land titles to Yukpa indigenous communities who have occupied private estates to demand their constitutional right to ancestral lands. The officials also promised to investigate attacks by hired hit men against the Yukpa.

However, the officials also reiterated requests that the Yukpa abandon the land occupations and return to the negotiating table, something the Yukpa say is impossible because of continued death threats orchestrated by elite landowners against indigenous chiefs.

According to Yukpa spokespeople, peaceful negotiations continue to be impeded by regional security officials who remain complicit toward attacks against the Yukpa and cut off humanitarian aid and media access to the occupied lands.

On Tuesday, Indigenous Affairs Minister Nicia Maldonado announced that the federal land demarcation commission would meet this week to advance the demarcation process, which she assured is already 70% completed.

“All of this work has been underway, but of course it is necessary that it be accelerated and worked on permanently,” Maldonado told the state television station VTV.

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/3760
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. the first is a map of Colombia, goodness!!!! time for a break n/t
s
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. The small map shows the Colombia side of the Perijá mountain range (pink) at the NE
corner of Colombia. The Yukpa land grant is on the Venezuelan side of that border--at the NW corner of Venezuela (the big map). The Perijá range is NW of the green line showing the Andes Mts. and Lake Maracaibo. The indigenous land grants are NW of Lake Maracaibo. The two maps together show you the entire Perijá range, a snaky-looking (my first thought was swordfish) strip of mountains (pink in the little map) that enters NW Venezuela (green on the big map) way up in the corner. The indigenous land grants from Venezuela are on the border of the two countries, in the Perijá mountains (the state of Zulia on the Venezuelan side; Cesar on the Colombian side). You'd have to put the maps of the two countries together to see the whole range as one, and to clearly see the border (land grants on the Venezuelan side of that border in the mountains).

Zulia is very volatile state, politically--home ground of fascist plotters who want to secede from Venezuela, and gain control of Venezuela's main oil reserves in that region. There is evidence that they have colluded with the Colombian military on such plotting (with the US/Bushwhacks likely involved as well). They are somewhat akin to the white separatists in the eastern provinces of Bolivia, where Bolivia's main gas resources are located, who wanted to secede from Bolivia's leftist government, and thus gain control of Bolivia's main resource, and tried to, last September, with the Bushwhacks' help. Bolivia, a largely indigenous country, now has an indigenous president, and the racism of the white separatists is endemic. i don't think the racism is quite as widespread as a motivation for brutality in Zulia, because there simply aren't as many indigenous in Venezuela, but it appears to be part of what is going on there. This is a rich vs poor issue, in both cases--but added to it is the wealthy landowner class's attitude toward the indigenous as peons and slaves--as less than human--and the long and ugly history of European land grabs, domination, racial hatred and mass murder.
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spanza Donating Member (363 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Are you comparing Zulia with Santa Cruz?
Consider that Zulia is the state with the biggest "indigenous" population in Venezuela (something like 75% of the total indigenous people of Venezuela, I think). The idea of Zulia's secession is been going on for the last 100 years in Venezuela and it's never been serious as it is in Bolivia. You may want to note that the scheme of a white landowner oligarchy does not fit the social structures of Venezuela as it does in Colombia or in Bolivia.
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Olvidalo
They think "standard latin american country".
Separatism in Zulia is a very absurd subject.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Right. It's absurd. Just like oil and coal are absurd. A belly laugh!
Search "Zulia Movement" and get back to us.
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spanza Donating Member (363 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-20-09 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #12
19. Sorry but Venezuelans have heard the talk about separatism in Zulia
and seen maracuchos wearing "republica of Zulia" T-shirts since they were born and nothing has ever happened.

Paranoia
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-20-09 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Your own admission contradicts your position. n/t
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spanza Donating Member (363 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-20-09 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. It's quite the contrary
With some logic, you can understand that these 2 affirmations can't go together:
1. Zulian separatism has been going on forever without any effects
2. Zulian separatism, as in Sta Cruz, emerged as a dangerous reaction against the leftist revolution
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-20-09 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. And the latter isnt the only possibility or consequence. n/t
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. You may want to take a quick scan of this info, Peace Patriot. It actually touches
on ideas you've been discussing for a long, long time! Very sweet seeing it in a place so easily accessed in one quick search! It's written by James Petras, whom, we've learned, does seem to know a lot at times, but then swerves oddly to the right, and has to be watched like a hawk!

Separatism and Empire Building in the 21st Century

Separatism in Latin America: Bolivia, Venezuela and Ecuador

~snip~
If we look beyond the national governmental level, even in the non-hegemonized states, US influence still is a potent factor shaping the political behavior of powerful right-wing business, financial and regional political elites in Venezuela , Ecuador , Bolivia and Argentina . By the end of May 2008, US backed regionalist movements were on the offensive, establishing a de facto secessionist regime in Santa Cruz in Bolivia . In Argentina , the agro-business elite has organized a successful nationwide production and distribution lockout, backed by the big industrial, financial and commercial confederations, against an export tax promoted by the ‘center-left’ Kirchner government. In Colombia, the US is negotiating with the paramilitary President Uribe over the site of a military base on the frontier with Venezuela’s oil rich state of Zulia, which happens to be ruled by the only anti-Chavez governor in power, a strong promoter of ‘autonomy’ or secession. In Ecuador , the Mayor of Guayaquil, backed by the right wing mass media and the discredited traditional political parties have proposed ‘autonomy’ from the central government of President Rafael Correa. The process of imperial driven nation dismemberment is very uneven because of the different degrees of political power relations between the central government and the regional secessionists. The right wing secessionists in Bolivia have advanced the furthest – actually organizing and winning a referendum and declaring themselves an independent governing unit with the power to collect taxes, formulate foreign economic policy and create its own police force.

The success of the Santa Cruz secessionist is due to the political incapacity and total incompetence of the Evo Morales-Garcia Linera regime which promoted ‘autonomy’ for the scores of impoverished Indian ‘nations’ (or indianismo) and ended up laying the groundwork for the white racist oligarchs to seize the opportunity to establish their own ‘separatist’ power base. As the separatist gained control over the local population, they intimidated the ‘indians’ and trade union supporters of the Morales regime, violently sabotaged the constitutional assembly, rejected the constitution, while constantly extracting concession for the flaccid and conciliatory central government of the Evo Morales. While the separatists trashed the constitution and used their control over the major means of production and exports to recruit five other provinces, forming a geographic arc of six provinces, and influence in two others in their drive to degrade the national government. The Morales-Garcia Linera ‘indianista’ regime, largely made up of mestizos formerly employed in NGOs funded from abroad, never used its formal constitutional power and monopoly of legitimate force to enforce constitutional order and outlaw and prosecute the secessionists’ violation of national integrity and rejection of the democratic order.

Morales never mobilized the country, the majority of popular organizations in civil society, or even called on the military to put down the secessionists. Instead he continued to make impotent appeals for ‘dialog’, for compromises in which his concessions to oligarch self-rule only confirmed their drive for regional power. As a case study of failed governance, in the face of a reactionary separatist threat to the nation, the Morales-Garcia Linera regime represents an abject failure to defend popular sovereignty and the integrity of the nation.

The lessons of failed governance in Bolivia stand as a grim reminder to Chavez in Venezuela and Correa in Ecuador : Unless they act with full force of the constitution to crush the embryonic separatist movements before they gain a power base, they will also face the break-up of their countries. The biggest threat is in Venezuela, where the US and Colombian militaries have built bases on the frontier bordering the Venezuelan state of Zulia, infiltrated commandos and paramilitary forces into the province, and see the takeover of the oil-rich province as a beach-head to deprive the central government of its vital oil revenues and destabilize the central government.
http://www.stwr.org/united-states-of-america/separatism-and-empire-building-in-the-21st-century.html
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spanza Donating Member (363 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. You mean that this guy who
doesn't even know how many non-chavista governors were in Venezuela at that time is an authority on 100 times more complex matter of Zulian separatism?

Seriously...

Tell me one measure taken by Rosales during his 1996-2000 and 2008-2009 periods as the mayor of Zulia's capital (Maracaibo) and his 2000-2008 period as the governor of the state, that would confirm his "separatist" tendencies. All in all, it's a 13 year period so, if the allegation is true, that shouldn't be a problem.

I'll give you a tip, Rumbo Propio. It's the Zulian "autonomist" organization. They supported Rosales for the 2006 election and that's where this rumor started. Note that the maoist party supported him too. So what would he be then? A maoist separatist?
:popcorn:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. Rosales is a loser and no one should waste a minute even thinking about him.
He's a common white collar criminal.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
3. Very bad news, EFerrari. Hideous. Hope to learn more about this.
Have heard so often about the landowners hiring scum thugs to terrorize the poor, and never saw someone dare to write a name before now.

It takes a real macho guy to do this to a very old person. My God.

I want to reread this material later tonight.

Thank you for the articles, and the helpful images.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
6. You know, there's an American D.U.'er living in Merida right now. Hope she sees this thread.
Edited on Sun Oct-18-09 10:08 AM by Judi Lynn
Here's Merida. It doesn't show up on the ones posted already:

http://media.news.com.au.nyud.net:8090/travel/lp/maps/wg-venezuela-3686-400x300.gif

http://www.cecalc.ula.ve.nyud.net:8090/BIOINFORMATICA/oso/Mapa_parques.jpg


From the article:
“We do not trust the military officials in the state of Zulia,” said María Fernández, a Yukpa spokesperson, in an interview with a municipal television station in Caracas this week. “Send a reinforcement... but not to attack the community and the pregnant women, not to use weapons of war against us,” she demanded.

“We want you to get the hit men out of the Sierra de Perijá, since they are in charge of the large estates... we want the ministers who are in the cabinet of Hugo Chávez Frías to work,” Fernández pleaded.

Fernández explained why she and other spokespeople, not Yukpa chiefs, were sent to Caracas to defend the Yukpa struggle this week.

“The chiefs are threatened in the Sierra de Perijá, that is why they are not present and they have not shown their faces, because they have been threatened that those who go to Caracas will be killed,” Fernández told state news reporters.

Thanks, again. This is so damned sad.
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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Use google earth, guys
If you look at the area using google earth, you'll see that area (Sierra de Perija) is mostly forest and jungle. Can't even see a single road, although there are trails underneath the forest canopy. That area is no man's land, to the West South West of the lake it's crawling with FARC guerrillas. The land being fought for is away from the border, closer to the paved roads. I visited the area about 10 years ago, and it seems quite worthless.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. We'll be fine. Thanks for your concern. n/t
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. The multinationals who want to suck the coal out don't think so.
Why do you think people are being murdered?
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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-20-09 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
27. Why are they being murdered?
Probably because they are fighting for the land to grow dope? Venezuelan law says mineral rights belong to the state, the land owner gets no royalties. I haven't heard of multinationals trying to get into the coal business in Venezuela in recent times, why would they do it? Why invest into mining coal away from the coast, in an area crawling with outlaws, FARC, and hostile indians? It just doesn't make any sense at all.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-20-09 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. "Outlaws, FARC and hostile indians"?
My, my.
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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-21-09 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Been there
White boy, you wouldn't last more than say one hour driving towards Perija from Machiques-Colon road. They would either kill you, or kidnap you if you look like you're worth the trouble. I visited the Yukpa orphanage due West of Machiques quite a few years ago, and we needed a huge Venezuelan National Guard escort - which refused to travel in the area unless it was full daylight. At the time, that sector was crawling with FARC. To the North, offset to El Rosario de Perija, they had AUC. If the Colombians didn't get you, the indians would unless you had a previous arrangement to go into their areas.
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-21-09 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Braulio, EF is a girl
some special people don't need to actually go to those places get a full understanding of what really happens. they can talk about the political and clan divisions in the Afghan society and judge the situation between Baris, Yukpas, Ven army and drug traffickers in Perija, all that in the same minute!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-21-09 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. Chango, EFerrari is not a girl, thanks.
And we call those special people "critical thinkers". They are all over institutions of higher learning and in fact, all over the world. Be careful. I'm sure they outnumber you.
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-22-09 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Oh... is that how you call these people?
I know they definitely are a clear majority in the world. I have seen them even in the institutions of higher learning and certainly all over the world. They are indeed like rice the ones you call "critical thinkers". I think they are THE main reason that explains why our world works so well!

By the way, how many people are you, EFerrari?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=405&topic_id=23212&mesg_id=23212
Spanza: "Mr ? is apparently out of arguments today..
and decided to call spam anything he doesn't agree with.
Thanks god he's a progressive, otherwise he'd be a fanatic skinhead... :)"

EFerrari: "It's she, she'd be a fanatic skinhead. Enjoy your stay at DU."

In this post:
EFerrari: "Chango, EFerrari is not a girl, thanks."

Confusion, joke or medical operation?
:hi:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-22-09 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. And yet another illustration of your unlimited reasoning ability.
Well done.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-21-09 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Every time I think you people can't get more ridiculous, you make me a liar. n/t
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-21-09 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. you don't need anyone for that ;)
why do you insult so much if you are going to cry when disrespected?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-21-09 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Who is crying? Your buddy is hilarious. I hope he's more careful
on his next imaginary John Wayne adventure than he is here.
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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-22-09 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. Imaginary?
John Wayne did the Hellfighters, I don't do movies.
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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-23-09 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #33
39. So where is the list of multinational coal companies?
I've been waiting for a list of multinational oil companies trying to build coal mines in Western Venezuela. When I get it, I'll put their CEOs on my list of nutty characters.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
7. Kicking.
:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. To follow up on Peace Patriot's lead, here's a 2007 article
that talks a bit about the trial baloons at separatism floated in Zulia. I can't get the normal link to work, this is from the cache:

Stoking Separatism in Venezuela

April 13, 2007 By José Steinsleger


José Steinsleger's ZSpace Page

Join ZSpace

After failing in the different options of delegitimising the government of President Hugo Chavez (coup d'état, media war, petroleum sabotage, assassination, disregarding electoral results), some sectors of Venezuela's "democratic" opposition have started to unfurl the cause of Zulia (Venezuelan province with most of the oil deposits).

Before a widespread sentiment of "Zulia-ness" has taken root, it is being nourished by Rumbio Propio (Own Course), a movement of super-democratic folk who are trying, as they say, to make the petroleum-rich state of (with Maracaibo, the second city of the country, as the capital) into "the Hong Kong of Latin America".

Rumbo is hardly "original": it believes in "true, classical liberalism", understands the Right as the "political side that defends and listens to human rights and liberties, individual and economic" and is (it goes without saying) "... against totalitarianism of any sort and side".

In the presidential elections last November, Rumbo supported the state governor, Manuel Rosales, who in April 2002 openly supported the coup by the businessman, Pedro Carmona. In his campaign team, Rosales counted on the help of two figures: Commissioner Henry López Sisco (CIA agent responsible for various massacres during the government of Jaime Lusinchi 1984-88) and the pathetic Teodoro Petkoff, former guerrilla who claims to be misunderstood by "leftists and rightists".

The separatist climate of Rumbo and the "Zulia patriots" is expressed in billboards, tee shirts showing maps of the "independent republic", Press articles, web pages and confused declarations of academics selected to manipulate the history of the region.

http://74.6.146.127/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=Zulia+separatism&fr=yfp-t-701&u=www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/1598&w=zulia+separatism&d=H8ZfWN29TkyD&icp=1&.intl=us&sig=MYZ_SAicIgbKtHcXd9vFrQ--
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-20-09 04:43 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. This is really good. I found it was reprinted in a blog, as well.
I'm keeping this for future reference.

Here's more from the article:
~snip~
The writer Luis Britto García remembers that during the coup of April 2002, the commentator, Victor Manuel García (a firm supporter of “globalisation”) shouted on television: “Why not? Bolívar, independent! Cojedes (Venezuelan region), Independent! Zulia, Independent!”

On October 26, 2003, the anti-Chavez newspaper, La Verdad (The Truth), interviewed Julio Portillo, head of the School of Political Science at the private Rafael Urdaneta University. In the text, the professor supported the idea of a “region autonomous before independence”; later he contradicted it and underscored the “resemblance” of Zulia with Quebec and Panama. Finally, Portillo proposed a consultative referendum on independence with the “argument” that Zulia would be a nation “… because of its riches”.

In 2005, the head of Political Science at Zulia University, Lucrecia Morales, urged the delinking of the state from “this government (of Chavez) and to do it through the route of “definitive emancipation”. And the geniuses of Washington keep on hoping, thinking that “Zulia-ness” could drive to an independence of the type in Panama (1903) without having learnt anything, it seems, from the defeat at Bay of the Pigs (Cuba, 1961).


Exploiting the mean spirit of the nationalists, Washington’s Ambassador in Caracas, William Bromfield, embarked on a series of visits to governor Rosales. In Maraicabo, he said: "Twenty-five years ago I lived for two years in the ‘independent western republic of Zulia’ and know perfectly what it means to be in a heated climate”.

A little before the elections, Bromfield spoke of opening a consulate and of the possible signing by Zulia of a bilateral (sic) agreement with the United States. The declaration of someone who is seen as the head of the “democratic opposition” in Venezuela led to widespread denunciation among the Deputies and politicians. The newspaper VEA of Caracas hinted at a possible plan “… to create artificial frontiers that would lead to a State without a country between Venezuela and Colombia, whose mission is to take hostage Zulia and bestow on it a euphemistic independence by the agents of the White House…”
More:
http://gringo-venezolano.blogspot.com/2007_04_01_archive.html

Thanks, EFerrari. :hi:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. Here's another overview of separatist movements in the region.
May 30, 2008

From a Texan-Venezuelan to an Ecuadorian Giuliani
Meet South America's New Secessionists

By NIKOLAS KOZLOFF

Having failed to halt the tide of South America’s Pink Tide, Washington is seeking to cultivate relationships with secessionist leaders in order to facilitate the breakup of countries which share left leaning governments. In Bolivia, the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) has explicitly supported demands of the political opposition for greater regional autonomy in the eastern section of the country and has funneled millions of dollars to the right.

It’s an inflammatory move which has incited a diplomatic firestorm throughout the region. Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez, an important ally of the Morales government in La Paz, has said that his country will not stand for secession in Bolivia’s eastern lowland states. The stage now seems set for confrontation, as Bolivia's largest and richest state overwhelmingly backed a referendum calling for greater autonomy earlier this month.

Chávez declared that his government has not meddled in the domestic affairs of other Latin American nations, but would do so if Bolivian states now seeking greater autonomy from Bolivia's central government push for total independence. On his weekend radio and television program, the Venezuelan leader blamed "oligarchs" and "fascists" in Bolivia for the unrest.
"The CIA and its lackeys" aimed at seizing control of regional governments through illegal referendums, Chávez said, "but we will defeat that plan through integration, political union and ideological strength."

News of the secession movement in Bolivia has alarmed the Venezuelan authorities. It’s not difficult to see why: in western Venezuela, the right wing opposition is pushing for greater autonomy from the central government. In response to the political crisis in Bolivia, Chávez likened opposition efforts to win control of states near Venezuela's border with Colombia to "separatist" moves in the impoverished Andean nation to the south. With secession rapidly turning into a worrisome political dilemma for regional governments, right wing opposition figures are now coming to the fore.

Who are these secession leaders who wish to derail South America’s Pink Tide?

http://www.counterpunch.org/kozloff05302008.html
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-20-09 04:52 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. So new Peruvian citizen, Manuel Rosales traveled to Washington to huddle with Tom Shannon.
That should make people even more disgusted by dipstick Shannon than ever before, if possible.

Shannon should NEVER have spoken to him. He's far, FAR more involved in right-wing machination than anyone working for a Democratic administration should EVER be. He's not on the right side of this.
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spanza Donating Member (363 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-20-09 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. I already told you about Rumbo Propio
and it's cute to see you're using it. You could use Bandera Roja or Vanguardia Popular as well if one day you need to demonstrate that Rosales is a maoist.

But are these your facts?
"Though Chávez has failed (after trying hard m.n.) to prove that Rosales had any link to secessionist plots launched by the likes of the U.S. or Rumbo Propio, the Zulia governor has cultivated close ties to the U.S. since his electoral defeat in 2006"

You've just shown us again that you didn't read every line of the articles you refer to.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-20-09 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. You're way out of your depth. Shouldn't you be at a pant raid or something?
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-20-09 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. my understanding is the maracuchos have always felt they provided the income for Ven
due to the oil production there and thus have always felt a touch of "what do we need the rest of the country for?"

the other person you are exchanging posts with is clueless.
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spanza Donating Member (363 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-20-09 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. That has been going on for decades, almost centuries.
And even before the oil was discovered, they already had this tendencies. Of course, when oil production started in the 1910's-20's, it grew. It's funny to see how some commentators in this forum are 2 years late on that matter. Even Chavez stopped using that argument after he "failed to prove that Rosales had any link to secessionist plots", as the article they use to support their claims says. Very ironical to see how they insist on that.
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spanza Donating Member (363 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-22-09 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
38. Minister of internal affairs says the two Yukpas were killed by
seven "indigenous people".

MIJ informó que siete indígenas son los responsables de la muerte de dos yukpas

05:01 PM Caracas.- Tarek El Aissami, ministro del Interior y Justicia, se pronunció respecto al incidente que ocurrió en la Sierra de Perijá hace unas semanas donde resultaron muertos dos indígenas Yukpas.

Informó que en la investigación realizada por las autoridades competentes se determinó la responsabilidad de siete indígenas, de los cuales cuatro se encuentran ya detenidos y los otros tres tienen una solicitud de privativa de libertad.

Señaló que serán las autoridades competentes quienes establezcan las responsabilidades entre los ciudadanos detenidos.

Full article from evilous El Universal:
http://www.eluniversal.com/2009/10/22/pol_ava_mij-informo-que-siet_22A2936413.shtml
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