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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 10:58 AM
Original message
Haiti 'gives Aristide passport'
The Haitian government says it has issued former President Jean-Bertrand Aristide with a passport, opening the way for his possible return.

A government official told the AFP news agency the diplomatic passport had been issued on Monday.

However, one of Mr Aristide's lawyers said he had not received it.

Mr Aristide was ousted seven years ago and has been living in exile in South Africa, but has said he wants to return to Haiti.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-12388715
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. Wow! This is momentous!
Apparently, the U.S. pushed their puppet Preval too far. That's how I read it. Nothing else explains the U.S. permitting the heinous dictator "Baby Doc" to return to Haiti (through the U.S. military controlled Haitian airport, and without proper papers). They got wind of this (Preval intention to grant Aristide a passport) and acted to pre-empt it (allowing "Baby Doc" back in BEFORE Aristide)--to make Aristide hesitate (for fear of a civil war) and to make his return as difficult as possible. Also, Aristide had to make damn sure that his "papers were in order" because the U.S. would use any excuse that it could, to keep him out of Haiti. Preval has now helped Aristide on that score.

I'm not sure that Preval's beef with the U.S. was merely the U.S.-arranged phony recount of the phony election, which eliminated Preval's successor from the run-off. Although he did publicly state something to that effect (objecting to the U.S. telling Haitians how to run their election), I think his snit pre-dates the election and maybe goes all the way back to his own campaign promise to the people of Haiti to bring Aristide back, which got overruled by the U.S.

Deep Throat's advice, "follow the money," though, is probably relevant as well. Among the many insults that Preval may have felt, from the U.S., has to be Bill Clinton's handling of the $9 billion in international earthquake aid for Haiti and failure to reconstruct anything, as yet. Even the presidential palace still lay in ruins. A million Haitians are still living under tarps (not even in tents), with makeshift water and food supplies. Cholera has broken out--and all this wiith $9 billion in aid sitting somewhere off shore! I think that what is going on, regarding the reconstruction money, is an unseemly corporate vulture scene with U.S.-based and other transglobal corporations vying for pieces of that pot of gold. Maybe Preval's supporters--mostly Haiti's rich elite--have been shoved aside. And maybe that, on top of the recount insult, on top of everything else--an accumulation of grievances--has prompted Preval to do the worst thing imaginable, from the U.S/corporate/war profiteer point of view--the very thing that all U.S. actions have been aimed at preventing--Aristide's return and real democracy in Haiti.

CEPR has called for a complete re-do of the Haitian election. That is really what must happen. Aristide's party--the majority party in Haiti (big majority)--was banned from the previous ballots. SEVENTY-FIVE PERCENT of Haitians DIDN'T VOTE because of this. So NONE of the U.S.-chosen or Preval-chosen candidates has much support. They split up 25% of the electorate among them. Clearly, the Lavalas party is the only party capable of inspiring the confidence of most Haitians, and Aristide is probably the only current leader who also does so. The reason that the U.S. hates him so much is that he is independent (can't be bought) and committed to social justice. The U.S. wants "free trade for the rich" in Haiti (slave work force), wants to lard all the aid money on U.S. and allied corporations and probably wants a permanent U.S. military base in Haiti. Aristide is likely to fight them on all of these issues He is a smart man, tempered by years of U.S. interference in Haiti, but he will probably try to negotiate in a reasonable way, aimed at Haitian sovereignty, and at relief of suffering and a positive, Haitian-involved reconstruction. And he has a lot more potential allies in Latin America now than he did in 2004, when the Bush Junta brutally ousted him. There has been a political sea change in Latin America since that time--with leftist governments elected all over the map.

I've been wondering why they have been hands-off, especially Brazil (which has UN peacekeepers in Haiti). How come they let the U.S. form a U.S.-Canada-France election group, using the "OAS" name? (Among other things, the U.S. has now sullied the OAS name as honest election monitors.) But maybe this is what they've been waiting for--Aristide's return, providing the opportunity for democracy and Haiti's sovereignty to be established. With no one strongly advocating for Haiti within Haiti, they couldn't do much.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. Haiti: Passport for ex-leader Aristide is ready; US lawyer on way to pick it up
By: The Associated Press
Posted: 02/8/2011 11:36 AM

PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti - A government spokeswoman says Haiti has prepared a diplomatic passport for ousted President Jean-Bertrand Aristide and his American attorney will soon receive it.

Alice Blanchet tells The Associated Press on Tuesday that Aristide recently submitted his passport application. Blanchet is a special adviser to Prime Minister Jean-Max Bellerive and she says Aristide lawyer Ira Kurzban is on his way to pick it up.

Kurzban did not immediately respond to requests for comment ...

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/world/breakingnews/haiti-passport-for-ex-leader-aristide-is-ready-us-lawyer-on-way-to-pick-it-up-115571699.html
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Blogger and D.U. member magbana added some background on Kurzban earlier:
Ira Kurzban: Press Release "Major Victory for Cuba Charter and Travel Companies"

Ira Kurzban, in addition to being the lead counsel for the plaintiff charter and travel companies in this case, worked for the Haitian government as legal counsel to President Aristide, 2000-2004.

He is the one who filed Haiti's case in French courts to get France to reimburse money it extorted from Haiti beginning in 1815 in return for a promise not to invade Haiti again. Haiti dutifully paid France and did not make the last payment until 1947. Haiti's lawsuit sought reimbursement for the the money extorted, but in today's money. This amounted to $22 billion dollars. No wonder the sister of French Foreign Minister, Dominique DeVillepin, was dispatched to Haiti in December 2003 to convince Aristide to resign. One could say that France had a good reason to participate in a coup to remove THEIR Aristide problem. A few days after the coup, the US-installed government withdrew the case from French courts.

magbana
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=405x14067
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naaman fletcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
4. great news..
what are the chances thought that Obama/HRC allow Haiti to chart it's own course?
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. sfa
.
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Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. Great news!
Perhaps the US lackeys on the PRC will allow Famni Lavalas to runn sometime.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
6. Kim Ives just tweeted it. You beat him.
kimives13 Kim Ives
Ira Kurzban, Aristide's lawyer, NOW has in hand the diplomatic passport that will enable Haiti's exiled former president's return.
1 minute ago
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
8. Is anointed presidency a norm here or am I just new?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Is illegally kidnapping a sitting president and banishing him from his own country
Edited on Tue Feb-08-11 07:05 PM by EFerrari
a norm with you or are you just being obtuse?
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I don't know if I can believe a kidnapping story of an alleged RICO violator.
It's surely less credible than a blogger and two others being taken off the streets of Cuba and detained for questioning.

Also, I find it utterly amusing that OAS is being bashed here when they backed the 2000 Haitian elections as valid (OAS couldn't do the same for the United States with Bush v. Gore, despite the obvious irregularities!).

But yeah, I do find it amusing that people here appear to support extremely long standing presidents.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Oh, bullshit. There are multiple witnesses including a sitting member of Congress.
And it's a good thing you pity the OAS, it is in its death throes and needs some mourners.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Cite?
As far as I see it, Aristide is buddies with the US and we gave him a ride out of there to protect him from the ensuing rebellion (the rebellion was out for blood, he'd be a dead man if he didn't get out of there).
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roody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. As you see it, were you there?
Check out archives of democracynow.org. It was covered extensively.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. I love how people think I'm uninformed of the one sided stuff that is posted here.
When asked for citations no one provides any, and when I refute the nonsense, I just get trash talked. It's some sort of bizarro world.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-11 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #12
21. First hand account from one of the people who rescued the Aristides.
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Maxine was not there when Aristide was rescued from certain death. end of story n/t
s
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Even if she was, she, an agent for the United States Government, was being notified.
There was no accusation in that phone call that the "coup" was US sponsored. Oh, no, that always happens after the fact, when someone wants someone to blame.

Let's face it. The US was on good diplomatic grounds with Aristide, we gave him our freaking military to install him for crying out loud. And then when shit hit the fan, who was called first? The US, to get him out of there. The writing is on the wall if anyone uses any sense to interpret the events.
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I recall international aid was suspended to the Aristide goverment due to corruption
I imagine the lack of progress in rebuilding also has to do with corruption and contractors not doing what they are paid to do. I also recall the Congressional Black Caucus demanded that Bush "do something" and Bush did, just not what the CBC and Aristide wanted, which was to send troops to protect Aristide and maintain him in power.

that being said, he should go back and do whatever he wants to do there including running for president the next go round. at some time Haiti needs to direct its own course.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Yes I support him running again, but I'm not going to sit here with blindfolds on.
Haiti needs normalcy. If he can provide that, more power to him.

But the US would prefer Aristide to the "stubborn" Preval. Brazil is terrified of Aristide, calling him a "mobster" who would call people in to be "assassinated by cell phone." Read the wikileaks cables and how the US is having problems dealing with (see: manipulating in the way we do best) Preval.

Preval does not want to be President anymore. Some reports indicate he is even weary that he has to spend 3 months more than he would have there.

Anyone who takes bribes is infinitely manipulatable. Aristide has taken bribes, the FCC has come down on telecoms over it. Don't think that the US isn't rubbing its hands waiting for him to return.

Given the Brazilian wikileaks Cables I think the GOB was behind any sort of resistance to Aristide. But rather than letting him get killed by roaming gangs out for vengence, the US decided to keep him alive for an eventual return.

Bookmark this in the event Aristide is reelected.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-11 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #13
22. Not so fast. We've already had this conversation.
Maxine went with Randall Robinson and press to the aid of the Aristides where they had been dumped by our government. You bet your @ss she's a witness.

Seriously, go try your revisionist bs somewhere else.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-11 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. She went to where it was alleged. She didn't witness shit.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-11 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. Fail. The Aristides didn't wander over there on their own. n/t
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-11 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. she is a witness to Aristide being taken to the Central African Republic
because he was there. everyone knows that. she was witness to what Aristide told her, that is all. she was not witness to a "kidnapping"

she was not there when Aristide departed Haiti. he is alive because he left.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-11 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Both she and Robinson and other took calls through the night.
Fail.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-11 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. You know what a kidnapping looks like? Look at Wael Ghonim.
Disappear for days. If the US really wanted to "get rid of him" it would've been trivial to just push him out of a plane, with "no reprecussions."

Looks more like that they were keeping him as a backup.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-11 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. Fail. n/t
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-11 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #34
48. Whatever, it's irrelevant, even if I agree he was "kidnapped." Doesn't change he was preserved...
...for future use by the United States.
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-11 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #28
33. she was not in Haiti when Aristide left, not a witness to your version. epic fail
case closed. n/t
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-11 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #33
37. You can't change history. The US trained the leader of the fake insurgency
in Ecuador and the rest in the DR. What the US, Canada and France did to Aristide and Haiti is a matter of public record and I'm not going to waste another second arguing history with you.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-11 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. You have absolutely no concrete proof of that. It is all covered in untruths.
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-11 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #37
42. good, because you would fail history, Maxine was no witness
a friend of mine told me he was abducted by aliens, that makes me a witness then by your logic.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-11 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. What part of Maxine Waters, Randall Robinson AND press
is unclear to you

Not to mention, Aristide's driver who was with him the entire time.

Read something. Take fifteen minutes and try it. You might like it, you never know.
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-11 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. the part where you claim they were witnesses to a kidnapping
they are witnesses to what Aristide told them. I am currently a witness to your utter failure amusing as it may be.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-11 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #45
47. Here's a timeline.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-11 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #43
46. All the sources suggest is that the US saved his life. Period.
Now, if the US wanted to really kidnap him and not have to deal with questions, they could have simply done so, like Egypt did and does. Aristide would no longer exist and the problem would be done away with.

Now why would the US preserve Aristide in light of a bloodthirsty maniac who got a hold of weapons and was coming for Aristide?
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-11 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #28
36. They took alleged phone calls which didn't mention any accusations of a kidnapping. Fail.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-11 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #36
41. In order to believe that, you have to nullify the witnesses in Ecuador
Edited on Wed Feb-09-11 12:49 AM by EFerrari
and in the DR and Maxine Waters and Randall Robinson.

LOL
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-11 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #41
44. if they were in Ecuador, the DR, and the US how are they witnesses lol fail
lol
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roody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. This thread is about Haiti.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. The post you responded to question the credibility of a Haitian President.
It left an anecdote about another Latin American incident where the only "witnesses" were those directly "involved."

Only in that case, because the people were "dissidents" their views are unworthy, yet here we are willing to trust the word of a known bribe taker and a known puppet of the United States.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-11 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. The United States never fires its bribe takers and puppets.
Edited on Wed Feb-09-11 12:34 AM by EFerrari
You have it ass backwards as usual.

Witnesses: U.S. Special Forces Trained and Armed Haitian Anti-Aristide Paramilitaries in D.R.

As Colin Powell returns from his one-day visit to Haiti, we speak with criminal justice professor Dr. Luis Barrios about his trip to the Dominican Republic where he says lawyers, journalists, and Dominican soldiers all claim 200 U.S. Special Forces were in the country to train the so-called Haitian rebel forces before going into Haiti to depose Aristide.

http://www.democracynow.org/2004/4/7/witnesses_u_s_special_forces_trained

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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-11 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. He said she said, innuendo.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-11 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #25
30. See above: fail. n/t
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-11 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #30
40. A kid came up to me and told me someone he knew got robbed and asked me if I had $10.
Edited on Wed Feb-09-11 12:49 AM by joshcryer
Being a sensible person I told him that he should call the police.

Now, it is far too late for Haiti to do anything about allegations that happened in the past.

But I do not trust third hand information for shit.

And I certainly don't trust a RICO bribe taking crook puppet of the US.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-11 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. And just so we're very clear here, the US did not "fire" Aristide. The wikileaks cables paint a...
...favorable view of Aristide with the United States (indeed Brazil is enemies of Aristide), and again, you're ignoring that René Préval is hard to work with.

Well shit, I just repeated myself. Probably because you didn't address one bit of what I said.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-11 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. The United States has been abusing Haiti since Haiti was born.
And our government's Aristide chapter is just the latest in a long line of abuses.

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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-11 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. give Haiti back to Aristide and the US pull out. lets see what happens n/t
s
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-11 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #32
38. Of course, I never disputed that, you know. Aristide was put in by us.
And he'll likely be put in by us again once the current president decides to move on.
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-11 05:43 AM
Response to Reply #10
49. alleged RICO violator ?
Your Constitution and laws don't mean jack shit outside of the US so what the point in quoting RICO ?
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