Venezuelans protest Chavez's new socialist push

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h8zDfvy8H7oNjN-4akLpsFwm8EIgD92D77U00





A tyrant is one who imposes laws against the will of the people. Laws that were rejected just months ago.


Do people really still think Chavez is a saint and a great man?

you could go find the actual decrees?

I have no idea what they actually say, except in the case of the banking regulation, which was carefully reported (probably because the banks wanted the info) and which turned out to be fairly minor

:rofl:


because it has to be done

:sarcasm:

...the Venezuelan "opposition" to Chavez have been the rich who previously ran the media and controlled the oil money and government.

Few trust the news out of Venezuela these days when it starts with "protesters against Chavez".

I guess that may have to do with that coup a few years ago.

also could have something to do with the fact that he is imposing by decree laws that were voted down just a few months ago. A key part of that is BY DECREE.

The GOP are pushing to bring Perpetual War to Cuba's replacement.

Can be voted on in a national referendum if FIVE PERCENT of Venezuelans oppose them. It's in the constitution, has been used before and works. We have nothing like that here, where the parties create legislation that everyone knows most of us disagree with. We have no direct power to do a damn thing but whine and pray our representatives give a damn. That isn't the case in Venezuela.

This is the same AP who claimed the referendum vote wouldn't be monitored for a week in the run up (untrue) and who was sure the vote would be challenged (I guess State decided not to challenge it when it went their way. lol).

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/06/world/americas/06venez.html?ref=world

or the LA times

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/latinamerica/la-fg-briefs7-2008aug07,0,2140943.story?track=rss


or the BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7546503.stm


Any of those good enough for you?

And those protests are well founded considering Venezuela is experiencing near hyperinflation
33.7% in July.
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/08/07/business/LA-Venezuela-Inflation.php

that the last vote wouldn't be monitored. It originated at our State Department.

Romero at the LATimes is a rightwing hack. Google his work and see for yourself.

BBC comes closest to an objective report. Thanks, I'll start there.

And, you know and I know that these stories always start like this. An outrage. Then, we dig around and the thing is debunked. Over and over and over.

the NYT is known as a right wing news paper :sarcasm:

for a year and refused to cover Ohio 2004? You missed that whole Judith Miller thing?

Oh, honey, I don't want to be the one to pop your cherry.

He was elected, as was the national assembly. They are fully functioning according to the Bolivarian republic's constitution. Socialism is at the center of this constitution, which indeed was passed by the people. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the previous referendum. Venezuelans, as always, have the opportunity to express themselves at the ballot box.

And barring candidates under investigation for corruption is just the law, not Chavez.

Chavez also imposed by decree, laws that the people rejected just a couple months ago.


How is that following the will of the people?

:eyes:

It appears they're members of the golpista political parties. Nice, white, upper class folks.

Or, impeached.

Oh, wait, Hugo's a threat to the feeble USofA.

There is no freedom and democracy in nations opposed to US or it's policies, because we are the definition of freedom and democracy, and anyone opposed to us is opposed to freedom and democracy.

So, sure, technically the Venezuelans have a functioning democratic government and can recall him, or vote for someone different in the next election, but they are too stupid to realize that he is the next (insert evil dictator here), so it doesn't matter and it's our god given duty to liberate the Venezuelans from themselves and implement democracy and freedom.

now that would be dictatorial.

It was a mixed bag. The problem was that they bundled reforms the people liked with reforms they were suspicious of or didn't like. They were trying to sneak stuff through that people weren't in favor of by bundling it with reforms they were in favor of, which is a completely wrongheaded approach to reform, and which is why it was voted down. It's dishonest to say the Venezuelan people were against every reform contained in the referendum since they could only vote on it as a complete package, and showed support for many measures contained within it.

Are you kidding me? How do you think Haitians feel about the US, Canada, France's and the UN's actions against their democracy, for at least the last two decades? How about Nicaraguans in the 1980's? How about freaking Venezuela, where their government was dissolved with open US funding, which the State Department admitted, and a military dictatorship set up? Their will wasn't IGNORED, it was outright suppressed. How about this country? Over 2/3's of the public wants universal healthcare, even if it raises taxes, as they have for years. Which political party in this shining democracy has that in their platform? How about a pullout from Iraq? Are the people's opinions reflected in the stances by those in government? On economic issues?

As usual, people who ideologically object to people like Chavez can't just be honest, they want a return to pre-Chavez Venezuela, where it must have been a paradise. There wasn't institutional poverty, corruption and authoritarianism. I'm sure when the US supported former Venezuelan government in the early 90's killed hundreds of people in response to a peaceful demonstration you were outraged and concerned about "democracy" in Venezuela. I'm sure people like the peace sign guy above posted statistics on poverty, wealth concentration, etc. then. Same with the coup that removed a government with support from about 2/3's of the country. Same goes with Bolivia too I'm sure. I know you're concerned with US agencies like the NED & USAID interfering in their internal affairs and say so, because you're concerned about democracy and interfering with another countries affairs is inherently anti-democratic.

I'm also sure that something is posted by the peace sign guy above about world wide inflation, due in large part to financial speculation. Financial inflation has been far more rampant that "goods induced" inflation, and the effects that financial actors have around the world on democracies, making democracy virtually impossible, (as evident in Venezuela now) is obviously a concern to the peace sign guy. I’m also sure that the peace sign guy, cause he doesn’t obviously like violence, objects to our support to the murderous Colombian government. He objects to the US indirectly supporting Colombian paramilitaries who’ve tried numerous times to assassinate Chavez and who commit (according to countless human rights organizations) anywhere from 2/3’s to 4/5’s of the violence in Colombia.