The 2012 Election is Tomorrow - What do you do?

Pretend that the 2012 Election is Tomorrow - What do you do?

For those who like all/most/some? of what the President is doing, there is an obvious choice.

For those who do not like all/most/some? of the administration's actions and words, there is a decision to make.

Do we hold our nose AGAIN in the hope that THIS TIME we will actually get a liberal orientation from the people we elect?

or

Do we take a stand and say, "Not again" or "You have to prove yourself first" or something similar?

There are reasonable arguments for both decisions.

In the end, it is a personal decision we have to be comfortable with - both the action and the outcome.

Maybe it's easier to vote for a 3rd party candidate, or opt to stay home when you don't know who is running on the "R" side. But say, if it's Sarah Palin. The thought of her winning and running the country is to me - an obvious far far worse option than Obama. Perhaps if we see the Theocratical, Fiscally conservative except for corporations, and what new additional wars can I start Palin (or Palin Clone) - Obama doesn't look so bad.

I'll be voting for Obama.

an incredibly terrible choice for the office

BUT

think that continuing to give our support to Dems who will not do much/enough/anything to fight against the rethug policies is a guarantee that things will never change.

So, we are willing to take the bad medicine that a puke-led government (different than now, how?) is necessary to "cure" the disease of sell-out Democrats.

Analogous to amputating a limb to save the life. You will limp (at least until enough progress is made to produce good prosthetic replacements) but you will live.

So, the decision each has to make is whether the disease is serious enough to warrant drastic measures.

We had 8 years of "BAD MEDICINE" and it didn't cause a "cure" to come in for the Dem's in '08. The choices were Obama & Clinton - and their platforms were nearly identicle.

The MAJORITY of this country is in the middle. A far left candidate isn't going to win a General Election. All 8 years of Bush did was make 48% of the country think that he was awesome... and got 52% to vote for Obama. We may see that flip in '12 or '16.. 48% vote for a Dem, and 52% for a Republican.

It's the same reason that as much as the far right want Palin or someone crazier (is that possible) - they aren't going to get it either.

the GOP fucks up the country even more than they did during *'s reign

as it is to again fall for a corporate-reich "Democratic" politician.

Both strategies have failed. What's to say that trying again on electing a liberal is a worse plan than again electing another DINO?

After 8 years of Bush, this country was more then ready to vote for a Democrat.. and they didn't go any further left then Obama. As much as it pains many on this board to believe.. this country is in the middle. The MAJORITY is in the middle - so how do we get a more "far left" candidate into office when 30% of the voters are Republicans, and 40% are "Independents" which is code for I go what ever way the wind blows and the media says is good.

I understand holding onto your beliefs & values.. but I don't ever seeing that get us a more left President.

And, to be fair- this exact same conversation is happening on the right.. they want someone like Palin or further to the Right.. and that ain't gonna happen either.

The demographics and voting patterns in this country on a national level seem to get us candidates between the 40 yard lines.. slightly left or slightly right, but not much more. I don't see how we change that - and the polorizing of the two parties and not wanting to negotiate on anything is just making it worse IMO. Nothing gets done. Good policies & ideas go to waste because of political egos.

With any luck, I'll be watching the election returns from Canada, while receiving treatment for my cervical cancer, which I can't afford to have treated here.
Of course, I'll probably be dead by then, thanks to this administration and teh shithead democrats in Congress.

Sorry, I'm in a "fed up" kind of mood today.

about your cancer, and I completely understand your frustration. I wish Healthcare was a right for everyone in this country.. however, I tend to put more blame on the asshole republicans who think that being allowed to survive your cancer is a privledge that you should have to earn. I hate that fucking mentality more then anything else. But, I also saw my father die from his cancer and then watch my step-mom lose the house to pay for the Chemo that killed him in the first place. I'm bitter too.

I'm very sorry to hear about the death of your father and the loss of the house.:hug:

And while I believe most of the blame falls on the right-wing nutbags, I absolutely think Obama should have fought a lot harder for us. He was aloof and detatched, when he should have shown more of the "fire in the belly" that we saw during the campaign.

As much as I detested shrub, he was able to push through nearly everything he wanted. With our huge majorites, we should have been able to do at least as much.

So very disheartening...

what have I/we done?

Otherwise known as "voting with one's feet"

Grayson or Dean maybe.

Serious Question - when was the last time any sitting president who ran for a 2nd term had to run in a Primary? I'm only 33.. so my history before Regan is pretty fuzzy...

That was the last serious attempt.

West Coast saw Democratic turnout drop dramatically because national results were out when our polls were still open another 3 hours. That hurt many Democrats in local races, too.

One over a quagmire of a war- the other over health care and the economy.

Clinton's incessant pandering to the right motivated Nader's first run in 1996- and contributed greatly to the rise of the Green party over the next 4 years.

The take home lesson: create a political vacuum and someone, or some group is likely to fill it.

They are a problem in the General.

I think we'll see that on the Right as well... The right will put up someone palatable to Moderate Right, and Independants.. the Tea Baggers will be pissed & put up their own candidate. So we'll have Obama, someone Moderately Right, a Tea Bagger, and a Green Party candidate.

And, as always - the race will be between Obama and the Moderate right candidate.. those voting for the 3rd party candidates will feel good, but won't have changed anything.

Just my opinion.

And since it hasn't tended to turn out so well (we don't really know what would have happened had RFK lived) one would think the administration would take some pains to avoid a repeat performance.

Unfortunately, the only conflict the administration seems to relish thus far has been with key constituencies in its base.

They will always be there.. they were there in '00 and '04. And, frankly the Right has their tea-baggers.. so they will probably balance out, far right goes here.. far left goes there.. moderates in the middle vote for Dem & Rep. candidates.. everything stays the same as it always has... just the letter after the candidates name possibly.

He rolled easily to renomination in 1996. Nader's challenge in the general election could not be described as strong.

Carter & Johnson certainly did face tough challenges, however. I suspect Obama will not.

do you really believe that a liberal like grayson or dean could win the general election? i firmly believe they cannot.

...in my entire life (and I've lived quite a long time).

*JUST ONCE*, maybe we ought to try it instead of running someone
who could just as easily be an Rockefeller Republican.

Tesha

Support local candidates that I like.

Any other choice leads to a worse outcome. Imagine how much better off our country would be if a few more people "unhappily" voted for Carter in 1980. My only caveat, is that I would consider voting for a third party candidate running to the left of Obama if he or she were polling reasonably close to the two major party candidates.

That makes it hard to work up any enthusiasm for voting.

I was happy to vote for the last Kennedy brother or even okay with as I saw him a modern moderate in the mold of the old Republican, Eisenhower.

However, I will not be supporting Reagan's 7th term so I'll vote for whoever best represents my values and beliefs. If there is no such person then I'll write in the Democrat I trust the most...myself.

I will only bend on what I believe in so far and no amount of fearmongering will change that.

It is my hope that the President will prove to be a Democrat, stop capitulating to the Confederates, and find that he has a moral compass, philosphy, and ideas that don't change with the passing of polls and/or political strategy of the day.

What the hell does this guy even really believe in? Who does he really serve?

Not much point hanging around a bunch of Democrats.

..but still better than if the other side were in charge again. Things would be MUCH worse if that happened..plus I think he is trying..

I may have my differences with some of the recent strategies, but I'm still proud to have voted for him in '08 and will do it again in '12.

I think your response most closely mirrors mine. Thanks! :hi:

:shrug:

Any more on here I feel like on DU the "I will happily vote for Obama" people are more likely to get Pizza's because they have the audacity to suppor their democratic president. It makes me sick, really. The guy has enough opposition from the other side of the fence.. but whatever. To each their own.. but supporting a far-left 3rd Party on these forums seems to get you elevated to Hero status in some cases.

Can you point to anyone who has been tombstoned for supporting Obama? Anyone? I can't.

OVER Obama getting TS'd? I can't. And this is DEMOCRATIC underground - not 3rd Party or Green Party Underground.

As to your subject line, since I never claimed it I see no reason to defend it just because you want to change the subject. And if you have a problem with the site, maybe starting a poll to whine about people supporting third parties it isn't the best approach.

I started the poll to see how many here on DU were going to vote for Obama. Thanks :hi:

And, since no one has a running tally on who gets TS'd and who doesn't except for the mods - I think it's pretty obvious it was a rhetorical question.. only they know why someone is TS'd.

As for my problem with the site, you're right... i'll stop posting - and stop donating. I've been a monthly donator for 3 years now.. and frankly, it's turned from being a Pro-Democratic site to a "We can't stand the current president and we want to support a more liberal 3rd party site".. which is fine - but I'd rather just save up my monthly donation and give it to Obama in '12. So, thanks for helping me think through the best way to voice my objection to the direction of this site.

n/t

+1

...there's no grounds for a pizza delivery.

And it is out of logic (I feel) not anger.

As a country I feel we are on the last opportunities to really correct things from the disasterous policies of the Republicans. If Obama is going to follow Republican policies anyway then what is the point. If there is going to be a big fail (and Obama is leading us that way) then I would rather have a big fail under Republicans.

The Big Fail of Hoover gave the Dems power for 40 years. A Big Fail under Dems could give the Republicans power for 40 years. We are on the path to fail with Republican polcies, we might as well have Republicans in there.

And it is out of logic (I feel) not anger.

As a country I feel we are on the last opportunities to really correct things from the disasterous policies of the Republicans. If Obama is going to follow Republican policies anyway then what is the point. If there is going to be a big fail (and Obama is leading us that way) then I would rather have a big fail under Republicans.

The Big Fail of Hoover gave the Dems power for 40 years. A Big Fail under Dems could give the Republicans power for 40 years. We are on the path to fail with Republican polcies, we might as well have Republicans in there.

Sarah thanks you.

I'll take a real Dem and let the Republicans with the Republican policies get the credit for what they should.

If Obama freezes spending (and maybe even if he doesn't) the next thing, very soon, will be a Great Depression II, and this won't be even as light as the first one. Then you would rather have Dems acting like Republicans? That's what we got now.

After a complete collapse maybe we could really start fresh. Right now Obama is shifting the deck chairs around on the Titanic.

Yep.

reaction to the cowards.

Tesha

If we're going to have Republican policies let's get a true Republican in there. That way a Real Dem can be put back in power after the Big Fail under Republican policies (with Republican leaders).

:shrug:

There are some real asswipes around on DU, I tell yah.

I voted the first option, BTW & for the record.

I'm pretty sure Teddy Roosevelt or Ike aren't coming back from the dead.

but i'm starting to realize that just like with "W" - that is a strong possibility. And hate Obama's policies as much as you want so far.. they will pale in comparision to any Republican. But, you know this.. and you want to make a personal stand. I get that... sort of.

Ya know what is really sad... it worked already, but the democrats squandered the opportunity.

8 Years of george bush made things bad enough that the democrats SWEPT into office, unseating republicans like almost never before. We had a commanding mandate and ability to do whatever the fuck we wanted. It was a nearly perfect storm.

However, in the name of compromise and capitulation, we gave everything away and are quickly losing the advantage.

What could have been powerful legislation to help regular folks became BS. Credit card reform? The Health Insurance Company Recovery act? A Stimulus bill that gave more to big business? A Bank Bailout that required NOTHING of substance.

Right message, right strategy, unfortunately, WRONG candidate. We needed an FDR type and got a Clinton.

We had an historic victory in 2006 and 2008, and the Democrats
we elected have squandered it!

So now we'll have to do the whole cycle over again, hoping for
a better, braver crop of Democrats in 2016 or thereabouts. :(

Tesha

Choices 4-7 should be worded: Vote for republican candidate no matter who it is. Anyone who thinks they would be doing anything different is so delusional that they are the enemy of freedom.

I've heard plenty of Moderate Independants and some central leaning registered Dem's say that if the Republican nomination is moderate, they'd consider voting for him/her. If it's Palin or a Palin clone.. they'll probably just stay home.

I figured on this site, no one would be crazy enough to vote for a far Right Republican.. but a moderate one might get a few votes. I'm glad to see that no one has picked that option yet though.. but I am dismayed to see the large percentage of 3rd Party voters (although, not surprised).

and have always voted Democratic, but I am really not convinced Obama is a Democrat. I am more than unhappy - I am angry at being spit on by the WH, and I may let them know that by staying home in the elections in 2010.

If they want my vote now, they will have to earn it.

mark

137% of the people on a DU poll said they would vote for President Obama."

-Fox News :sarcasm:

OP's respectful, intelligent responses throughout the thread, regardless of the attempts to bait him by the perpetually unhappy.

Well done, RoadRage.

And then we dig a hole and bury our heads in it. Yes, that's the ticket!

should leave DEMOCRATIC Underground, I think. You plan to leave it to others to stop the Repubs, without contributing yourself. That makes me sick.

someone could make a killing by starting up 3rd Party Underground. Half the site can be for Tea-Baggers, and the other site can be for the Green Party. I'd join just to sit on the sidelines and watch the fighting!

Dupe

.

between now and 2012! :P Long way to go. I still don't know how I am voting in 2010, let alone 2012!

But I would be OK with it.

The speech helped, I admit, despite my issues with some of the policy statements.

(clean coal????????????????????? Seriously?)

or Santa Monica! And Hawaii's right out!

If they pass a health care bill, I'll happily vote for President Obama, very happily, because I really like him.

But if there's no health care bill passed, I'd very unhappily vote for a further left candidate, maybe...

It's hard not to vote for the President, under any circumstances, but we do need health care reform...

I mean what other choice is there, the republicans? HA! never in a million years would I vote for those scumbags. Some third party? HA! like that will ever happen in this country.

I would unhappily vote for Obama IF not much has changed by then.

why even both voting?