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How is it possible to take Obama seriously as a President when he's pi$$ing $57K/minute on wars?

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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 04:40 PM
Original message
How is it possible to take Obama seriously as a President when he's pi$$ing $57K/minute on wars?
Edited on Tue Jan-26-10 04:40 PM by brentspeak
Completely, absolutely, stupendously useless and pointless wars: http://www.costofwar.com/ (Thanks to DUers for the link).
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's difficult to impossible considering that the billions spent on death and destruction
Edited on Tue Jan-26-10 04:48 PM by ShortnFiery
are NOT making Americans safer at home or abroad. Just expanding our geopolitical influence in order to enrich the companies which comprise the Military Industrial Complex.

We need to find another RACKET besides WAR-MONGERING lest we, sooner rather than later, bring an end to our species. :(
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VMI Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. The Bush Doctrine is alive and thriving.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. War... it's what we do. n/t
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
4. Couldn't agree more. Until he cuts the military budget he is no more then a clown.
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
5. I know
Republicans are pushing him to spend money on war.
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golfguru Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. And I thought we had the majority in congress!
who would have thunk the minority party has so much clout!
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. When they get the majority they don't do anything
Maybe Cheney doesn't let them
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
6. and,as a mod points out, that's only partial Afghanistan costs!
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
7. But He's Cutting Social Programs - What More Do You Want?
Sheesh!
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. If those poor and old people want money, let them join the military!
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Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
8. It isn't so I don't. nt
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
9. Did you not listen him as a candidate??????????????
1) Said he'd get us out of Iraq in 16 months ... looks like it will be 19 months ... oh ... the horror!!!!

2) Said he would ADD troops to Afghanistan. He has. Said he'd increase focus there ... he has.

Did we sleep through this?????
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Holding to those plans is impractical, as they were created when we thought we could afford wars.
We can't, and it is ideological idiocy to keep pursuing these expensive wars.
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. Did he run on these positions .... yes, or no?
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Should he change positions to reflect reality? Yes or no?
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-27-10 05:58 AM
Response to Reply #22
31. What "reality" are you talking about?
He said out of Iraq in 16 months ... its going to be about 19 months. That's reality.

He said we needed to increase focus in Afghanistan ... I agreed with him as a candidate ... and I still agree with him now that he is doing EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID HE'D DO. That is reality.
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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-27-10 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. How many voted for Obama because of his escalate the war policy?
I'd say it was close to zero.

People voted for him DESPITE his unwise plan to escalate the Afghan war, not because of it.
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #35
49. I did polling arounding this issue and you are correct.
Obama was voted into office to get the U.S. out of Iraq,

and not to get the U.S. into Afghanistan. U.S. involvement in Afghanistan was unpopular during the campaign as it is now.



And it remains to be seen if Obama will actually will be getting us out of Afghanistan in August, if all he does is replace military with contractors like Xe paid for by U.S. taxpayers. That is just bait and switch. Nothing will have changed.
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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-27-10 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #19
38. Hey Joe, go vote
So far my poll suggests no-one here voted for Obama because of his promise to escalate the Afghan war.

You could be the first!

Go to:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x154723

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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Newsflash: We will not leave Iraq in 19 months. It's going to BLOW UP again.
Just as soon as we are unable to bribe the Sunnis, they will reignite their CIVIL WAR.

There will be Civil War, with or without the USA supporting the tin pot dictator side.
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golfguru Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Yemen is next n/t
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. We're leaving. Embrace reality and get used to it.
We are literally on the way out the door right now. Troops and equipment are leaving the country. That takes time, but it's not something we're waiting to do. It's happening RIGHT NOW. There was a news story the other day about the last Marines in country ending their active role and getting ready to leave.
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #18
50. Not really.
Bet you this war will continue, only at that point being fought by contractors like Xe etc. The U.S. taxpayers will continue to hold the bag, and our economy will continue down the toilet as everything is spent on war,war,war,war,and more war. The hate for America will ramp up based on the presence and activities of our mercenary/contractors conducting war in our name.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. So he bragged about escalating a pointless war?
You sure showed me!
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amandabeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
52. I did not know that the Pentagon puts 100 Al Quaeda in Afghanistan.
My view of the Afghan war has pivoted nearly 180 degrees since that little factoid came out.

Unfortunately, Obama wants to waste lives and treasure fighting the Taliban, which is not universally supporting Al Q.

Biden was right--special forces can handle this now.

If we need to go back in, we will. The Afgans will still be there.
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
13. Obama campaigned on continuing the war in AfPak
Somebody obviously wasn't paying attention.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-27-10 06:50 AM
Response to Reply #13
32. LOL
so, because Obama was wrong then, it must be supported now?
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-27-10 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #32
44. Of course not
The war is a disaster. Where did I say that we should support the war?
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 02:45 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. you're saying people cannot even bitch about the war
because we should have known he would not end it - yeah we know it sucked then and WE KNOW IT SUCKS NOW
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. People can bitch all they want....it's they're right
Edited on Thu Jan-28-10 12:48 PM by Cali_Democrat
I'm all for bitching. :hi:

The issue I have with the OP is saying that he can't take Obama seriously. When a President says he's going to continue the bloodshed in Afghanistan and he does, you better take him seriously next time.
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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-27-10 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #13
36. So what were antiwar people to do?
Edited on Wed Jan-27-10 09:16 AM by Bragi
I think most people who voted for Obama DID NOT support his policy of escalating the war in Afghanistan.

I think they voted for him DESPITE this unwise policy commitment.

And for the few who somehow decided to go with Obama because they were enthusiastic about escalating this pointless war, I suspect their support for more war may be diminished now that it is clear the US can no longer afford such wars.
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #36
48. There's not much the antiwar people can do right now
Edited on Thu Jan-28-10 12:07 PM by Cali_Democrat
Both major parties support the wars. Antiwar protests obviously don't work because the media ignores them and adores the teabaggers.

It sucks.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
16. Ah, if only life was like a video game...
Obama inherited two wars. Do you think wars just end by flicking the lights off?

I thought you were smarter than that.

:hi:
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. +1000. Some people here border on the delusional.
Even as the reports roll in of troops leaving Iraq, including the last of the Marines, they insist that Obama is somehow magically continuing the war.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. You can call it over when they're all back. Until then it isn't over.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Are you outraged troops are still in Kosovo?
They are still there. And (whispering) there will be troops in Iraq and Afghanistan 20 years from now. Shhh... don't tell anybody.
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Tell that to the combat troops stationed in Europe ever since WWII
Reality. What a fabulous concept.
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. yeah nothing going on in Afghanistan.
:sarcasm:
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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-27-10 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #17
40. Hey Wraith, go now to vote for more war!
So far my poll suggests no-one here voted for Obama because of his promise to escalate the Afghan war.

You could be the first!

Go to:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x154723

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tallahasseedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-27-10 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #16
27. Thank you!
Rational thinking...come get you some!
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-27-10 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #16
28. So now wars are ended by escalating them and attaching no-deadline withdrawals?
Edited on Wed Jan-27-10 01:43 AM by brentspeak
And if a Commmander-in-Chief says, "Let's get out of there," are the troops going to refuse the order? That's how a useless war is ended: the order is given, then everyone leaves. It really is that simple.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-27-10 06:51 AM
Response to Reply #16
33. naw, we figured he'd end them by escalating them
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Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-27-10 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
29. How is it possible to take breatspeak seriously as a Democrat when he's pissing on Obama 57K times?
:shrug:
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #29
55. BINGO, DAMMIT!! LOL! SLAM DUNK!! n/t
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-27-10 03:11 AM
Response to Original message
30. Hey there now, take it easy!
He's going to make up for it spending cuts and freezing domestic programs.

New memo: Not all cuts are bad cuts.
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Tippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-27-10 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
34. Iraq and Afghanistan are BUSH's Wars
Now President Obama has to clean up the mess bush left behind...It's not easy to stop a war...no spigot to turn it off...makes me mad when people act like they thought the President should just call our troops home...We live in the real world not some video game type world...We have a responsibility to the troops on the ground, to those waiting to be deployed and to every soldier who gave his life for Bush's war. I the violence had not escalated, through no fault of President Obama Withdrawal would have begun by now, or at least plans to do so would be on the table...
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-27-10 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. NO, it's easy to stop a war. STOP and withdraw the combat troops.
Afghanistan is a tribal area and will always have conflict if not Civil War.

It's not our place to prop up an illegitimate tin pot dictator who, in essence, only hold control over the concentrated population centers.

STOP! War is over ... if you want it. :thumbsup:
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-27-10 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. +1
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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-27-10 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #37
41. Naive and irresponsible.
For one, no you don't just stop and pull out. Trying to abruptly pull out of a war when you have a multitude of troops and equipment is actually dangerous to the troops. There isn't a credible military mind alive that would disagree with that. And whether you like it or not, its OUR responsibility to cleanly remove ourselves from any given country we are occupying and leave behind some sort of manageable security infrastructure. Its the least we could fucking do after just charging in and knocking the existing government out of commission.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-27-10 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. You're not old enough to remember Vietnam?
We left after we we're KICKED-OUT. :shrug:

Occupations don't work.
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #42
46. Kicked-out?
I re-writing history is popular.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-27-10 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
43. It is nearly pure pissing money onto gravel and sand.
I can take him seriously as President reckon but it damn sure is business as usual but so silly that they barely bother to pretend the conflicts even have a real security purpose.
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andym Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
51. For reference, single payer would cost 3.8 million dollars per minute
The CA nurses study estimate that HR676 would cost 2 trillion dollars a year. Divide by 365 days, the 24 hours and 60 minutes and one gets $3,805,175/minute. That's more than 50 fold the cost of wars.

Should the wars end ASAP? I believe so. Are there better uses for the money? Of course.

But spending by the govt is relative and it is useful to understand the scale.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. Read the CA nurses study again: it said that the CURRENT system costs $2.1 trillion/year
http://www.calnurses.org/research/pdfs/ihsp_sp_economic_study_2009.pdf

In any case, a single-payer system would largely pay for itself, so a comparison with military spending is erroneous.
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andym Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. And they say that the new program will cost 63 billion more than current costs
Edited on Thu Jan-28-10 06:27 PM by andym
From the report:
"XII. Conclusion
This study demonstrates that a comprehensive Medicare based Single Payer system can make significant
contributions to access of quality care for all US residents and in the process generate a much needed
and very substantial economic stimulus in the form of jobs, enhanced business and public revenues and
increased wages for the population at large.

All this comes at a relatively modest increase in net costs of $63 billion. "

"Net" means add 63 billion to the 2.1 trillion current costs. The big savings come in changes to the indirect costs.

The purpose of this post is to put the costs in perspective.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
53. awwww, brent's being a bitter sod again...
:rofl:
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