Obama suggests extending debate as way to pass health reform (?!)

I heard this story on the news and thought it must be a joke.

Unfortunately it wasn't. Instead of figuring out how to ram through the strongest bill possible, Obama seems intent on passing something he can call bipartisan even though it will drag out the process even further and end up being a corrupted piece of shit that won't pick up more than one or two GOP votes and therefore, in addition to being a wash at helping the American people, will likely be a wash politically, or worse, the GOP will weaken the bill, and then use the poor results to effectively beat Obama and the Democrats over the head in the election.

They are going to call you socialist anyway. Expand Medicare to everyone and dare them to criticize it.

The American people already listened and paid attention to the arguments, and they wanted something better than either the House or Senate came up with.

This would be acceptable if he included single payer and public option advocates this time instead of just the insurance and pharmaceutical companies who are bleeding us dry and then breaking open our bones and sucking out the marrow.

This reminds me of the pathetic cry of Chris Dodd the other day when he said that Wall Street just wasn't cooperating with reregulating them. Washington seems to be reduced to using reform solely as extortion to squeeze more donations out of the corporations, and then forget the whole thing.

and expanded Medicare to all. But, we really don't know what promises he made to Big Pharma and insurance execs do we?

reading it it seems like it must be a SNL sketch or something. He's totally unreal it seems. Kick the base in the teeth and then sit down with the GOP who have no intention of voting for the damn thing and if they did it would be a worse bill than the corrupt bill the Senate produced. If he is the leader of the Democratic Party with ideas like this than that party is officially dead. Pelosi and Reid had something going there and now he won't even do that?

:kick:

Single payer should have been a part of an honest policy process from the outset a year ago. However at every turn grassroots advocates as well as health care and public policy experts for single payer were ignored, obstructed and even arrested. It would have been particularly beneficial both in terms of the quality of the final health care reform product and in terms of the American people's buy-in to the proposed solution if this had been an inclusive process of all stakeholders particularly single-payer (the solution which is favored by most people).

Instead we had a health care reform legislative process which was dominated by the corporate health insurance companies around their profits. As a result now we have a health care reform program which appears to offer little and is confusing, with mandatory payments to health insurance companies that is not particularly popular.

The idea of debating the health reform bill in it current state doesn't sound very exciting or helpful in the bills current condition. Now if a meaningful public option were on the table, single payer, or Medicare for all - the debate would be must-see TV and historic. I would love to see Obama leading the debate advocating for single payer. It woud be grand to see him hit that ball out of the park.

You don't. Because the "American people" don't exist. There's lots of different people wanting lots of different things. Some are happy with this bill, and some aren't, and trying to claim the "American people" as being on your side is no different than the fundamentalist who believes they have God on their side.

like insurance and pharma executives who can make fat campaign donations and give you jobs as lobbyists, CEOs, and board members when you leave office.

as popular as the Senate Bill.

It's common knowledge. There have been a number of polls even from the corporate media outlets which state the American people favor by a broad margin a single payer/public option plan.

"so that the American people can see and compare what makes the most sense"

IF, by this he means showing the American people just exactly WHAT the Republicans have done (NOTHING)and what they have plans to do (NOTHING) to bring about a better health care plan, then I can see his point about debate. Sly like a fox, perhaps.

Genuine debate and not just Blabbering Political BULLshit would certainly expose the realitites of the relentless, narcissist, immature Republican agenda of NO. MAKE the Republicans talk about more than just political/election buzz points and cretinous attacks on ANYTHING Obama oriented. Make them come up with something publicly intelligent...as hard as that would seem is possible. They are so damned interested in filibustering everything, let them talk about something REAL...and show their true selves to the masses.

But, I don't have much faith in the masses being all that intelligent anymore. Aye, there's the rub!

Frankly,the 'fast-track talks among Democrats on Capitol Hill' have gotten us nowhere, fast. Critics complain about the gutless Democrats (I have been one of those critics) or the need to scrap the whole damn thing and start over with genuine strong legislature that leaves the Republican Do Nothings in the dust.

I am willing to continue to have faith in the intelligence of our President.
I am hoping that *intelligence* can be infectious enough to expose the Republicans for what they are...no sense do-nothings, and rejuvenate the Democrats to get tough.

hope hope hope hope hope
and
peace,
Lilly

I am just not going to give up hope for the future. It is exactly what the Do Nothings want. And precisely what I won't DO.

I've struggled with my *belief* factor for the past year. I wanted Obama to come blazing into Congress like a tiger for single payer. Perhaps HE expected intelligence to take the day, but it didn't, and while he was juggling a dozen other things, those of us wanting it were let down. Hard.

But I am beyond looking back and blaming what I can't change for the things that didn't make me a happy camper about this past year. A helluva lot was learned by Obama about the way things really work in Washington. He has three more years, at least.

And I am on his side.
It is the only side to BE on as far as I am concerned.
:)

Single payer is wonderful.

There is no passing it right now.

After all this time and seeing how hard it has been to even get something even fractionally resembling sub par universal coverage passed, why in the hell are people still sore over Obama taking a pass on single payer?

Its not gonna happen right now and its not because of Barack Obama.

Get the fuck over it and worry about something that is realistically doable right now... well if you actually care about people that don't have access to healthcare anyway.

But hey, if ideological grandstanding trumps actually making something helpful happen, be my guest to carry on with the pipe dreams.

after he told us he'd listen to all sides. And, he started the bargaining from the what should have been the compromise position.

A lot of us are "sore" because it's become increasingly obvious that this insurance bail out scam is exactly what Obama and his DLC pals wanted - they never were interested in seeing to it that Americans got access to health care, they just wanted to make sure the insurance companies got access to new victims to fleece.

away.

THERE WAS NEVER SUPPORT FOR IT IN THE SENATE.

how thick does one have to be to not comprehend this simple fact? you can't bargain away something you don't have....there were not enough senators to get it out of committee...

jesus christ.

how thick does someone has to be to not comprehend that simple fact?

Had we seen some leadership from the White House they could have started from the single payer position - especially as they would have had the public behind them. Instead, Obama refused to even listen to single payer advocates and he's the one who once said he'd listen to all sides of an issue. It is clear that the insurance bail out is the bill he and the DLC wanted all along whether or not we get access to health care means nothing to him as long as a way is found to protect the insurance companies.

special interests to vote for this, you can't be helped. you can't bargain from a position of strength when it's been estimated about 5 senators are solidly for it. the bill would not get out of committee.

if you can't uderstand that, it's a good thing you're not in the goverenment.

let's all just throw up our hands in despair and not even try. That's the attitude that will bring real progressive change to the country.

The trick to good negotiating is you make the other side meet you in the middle. If they don't, take it to the public and expose the crooks for the corporate sells out they are. But don't act from step 1 that there's not point in fighting.

You start bargaining by asking for everything (knowing you won't get it) and settle for the halfway point - you don't start by asking for "better than nothing" and then act suprised when you get less than nothing.

senators to support it. without that, there's no where to start from.

It would help if the leader of the party put some pressure on them but he is clearly more concerned with pacifying the Republicans and keeping pharma and the insurance companies happy and that does make the job harder.

We continue to remind them that the majority of the voters want real reform. What we do not do is let them think we're fooled by the insurance scam they're trying to foist on us and we sure don't let them think we're content to settle for it. And, unlike the Progressives in Congress, we refuse to give in.

who have public opinion behind them.

And if that chamber is acting on corrupt motives, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out some way to twist some arms to get them to do the right thing, like maybe the AG clearing his throat about investigating the relationships of some legislators and industries.

Those guys in the Senate are not gods on Mount Olympus. Sometimes they need to be knocked off their pedestals.

understand how anyone can think, knowing that they won't support even a weak public option, that they are going to try single payer, and somehow pass it.

they can't start from a single payer position because they don't even support it themselves! I'm not making excuses and saying that it's somehow okay, in fact it's disgusting. but that's just how it is.

Progressives need to do that to DLC and make them radioactive.

To some degree, they already are. Obama went to great lengths to distance himself from them as a group during campaign, so that it was a shock when he picked rahm to be CoS, followed by other DLC scum appointees.

Yep, he gets an A every time in debating. In leadership, he gets a F. Does he ever want to lead? And what the hell DOES he believe in? If you believe in health care, and you are the president, and this is your chance-you use it.

If you don't believe in much besides being president (I guess for just the honor not to actually you know do anything with the office) and going along to get along you get what we got. Nothing.

all this bipartisanship crap comes from being a Senator in the senate because that's all they do is try and make deals with each other.Governors elected to the Presidency never talked this much about trying to work together Clinton said the hell with you rethugs and passed his bills through Congress with no rethugs and lets not even mention Bush he passed almost everything with 51 votes and said the hell with you democrats. Obama and company are getting ridiculous. Regan did work with Tip O'Neil but he still got things through with 51 votes when he realized the dem's wouldn't go along with certain programs he wanted.

because the party is going to get tired of his trying to work with these idiots on the other side and they keep saying fuck you and instead of passing stuff with democrats they continue down this idiotic bipartisanship.

Basically since then it has either been Governors or Vice Presidents.

has toed the corporate line to avoid getting the same kind of pink slip.

of what will serve ordinary folks, it's worth delaying another few months. This might be an attempt to throw out a lot of unworkable crap. If, however, the end result is more crap inserted in a futile effort to court the votes of Republicans and Conservadems who aren't ever going to vote for meaningful reform anyway, then :thumbsdown:.

The American people have been telling both Obama and Congress what makes the most sense - they're the ones who aren't paying attention.

Is that too much to ask?

(Rhetorical question)

back at Harvard. They said it used to drive the progressive leaning students crazy, but looking back they now see it got results. I sometimes wish we'd allow him to work his magic than hasn't let him down for most of his life. Sure this is a new kind of Republican, but we constantly vastly underestimate Pres. Obama. This President knows what he's doing look at Gates on DADT would that of made any in roads with Republicans had he picked a different secretary of defense. Pres. Obama is no child he's a very sophisticate nuanced thinker and he can't get anything done by saying our way or the highway. Our way or the highway would only work if we had the same media infrastructure and we don't. I mean sometime I hear that's not fair Bush got all he wanted done, he had a lot of help though and life is undoubtedly unfair and we have to work from that point and Obama does. We're going to be pushed, we're going to be compromised but it's way better to get something done than nothing or we'll never get that opening for single payer. Extending the debate make s complete sense as we've already heard hey will do a nuclear attack of amendments can we at least let a methodical thinker analyze his next move.

Summarizes my point of view in regards to Obama as well. I know that his efforts to engage the Republicans seem to be driving a lot of us here crazy but I don't think that he is naive nor weak and, although I'll probably be scoffed at, I still believe that he is playing a much longer-term game than the Republicans think he is.

However.......I would add (at least for me) that this event that is supposed to occur on 02/25/10- which should leave the Republicans with absolutely NO excuses for not participating in a bipartisan process on HCR- ought to be the very LAST chance for the Republicans to come to the table and work CONSTRUCTIVELY with the Democrats to create a HCR proposal that both sides can tolerate and one that reflects TRUE compromise and negotiation (REAL "give and take" on both sides).

If Republicans complain, whine, demand pre-conditions, and otherwise refuse to participate in good faith, then all bets should be off and Democrats in the Senate should line up the votes and pass whatever "fixes" the House wants- via reconciliation if necessary- and then the House should immediately pass the current Senate bill and await the verdict of the electorate. This process has dragged on too long and the Republicans have gotten away with too much in terms of being able to demonize the legislation and use it as a political club against President Obama. 02/25/10 is their time to put up or shut up (and get rolled over).

but the profoundly corrupt Senate bill should not be the last word.

I did put that part in there, didn't I? I don't believe the Senate bill (as is) should be the last word on the matter but there's nothing wrong IMHO about the "patch" plan that House Democrats and some Senators have been talking about.

can say repubz were in on it too. If repubz still dont play along then they can still say they at least tried to court them.

To me this bill is just a giveaway to insurers and democrats are just as corrupt as repubz (just more sly at hiding it).

Seeing as how they can pass this thing easily with reconcilliation AND make it STRONG with things like Medicare for all (or even the whimpier 55+) they just wont do it because the inusrance industry will be angry with them....end of story.

So all those polls on the people with overwhelming majorties in favor of Medicare ofr All or a Public Option are annoying to them...and in the words of Rahm: "Can Fuck off!"

overdue!