So, when he said the bill he signs "must include a public option" he didn't really mean it?

Really, there's no doubt that Obama *COULD* have executed on
quite a few of his campaign promises. Many were entirely possible
just considering the power of the Executive branch. Many others
were possible given the enormous mandate and momentum that
the elections of 2006 and 2008 had provided.

But he defaulted.

The only conclusion I can draw now is that he knowingly lied.

And if you think my believing his public, oft-repeated promises
prior to the election is the equivalent of "believing in the Easter
Bunny", then we have nothing further to say to each other.

Tesha

went wading in the shark-infested waters.

He needs to acknowledge that, IMO -- not just pretend that we're doing what we can. "I know I promised you PO, but here's why I can't deliver it now..." something like that. Although we all do think he CAN deliver it now.

I know only that we won't know anything for sure until something is sitting on Obama's desk and he's picking up the pen to sign it. I never thought there would be over 20 Senators signing onto the letter to Reid, so... :shrug:

Altho this was a lot more disappointing than most.

the time he made that statement and now, and he should be impeached for lying.

:eyes:'

if he at least made some effort to fight for the public option. He didn't.

On Day 1 he promised the insurance companies that if the government offered any insurance plans the government would not under-price them. He guaranteed that they would remain competitive, necessary and profitable. They was the death of the public option right there.

Why have a public option if it can't offer anything cheaper or better than what the insurance companies offer?

And then when people tried to fight for a public option anyway, he didn't join them. He did not fight for the public option. He talked about it, but he refused to fight for it or defend it. Instead it negotiated it away, by giving in to republicans and conservative democrats every time they challenged him. :(

This is all good. I like learning what DU is becoming.

:eyes:

the monday morning quarterbacking and back biting and selective memory astounds.

Single payer never had a chance,

the public option might happen if two million people show up on the Mall in Washington.

Much easier to complain and bloviate on the Du here.


:hurts:

Change We Can Believe In had supported it, and had tried to rally the people who supported him. But he didn't support it, and he didn't make any effort to rally people to create that public momentum.

For some reason he things the public doesn't want a public option, which shows that he doesn't listen to the public very much.

On a political discussion board we're not only entitled to discuss this stuff, that's what we are here to do. Insulting me for it is, again, disingenuous.

So go take your insults, and your insulting smilie and shove it.

Apparently 'discussing' is only OK when you're bloviating.

Kewel. I'll go talk to the adults.

:eyes:

I know what my point was. Your only point was to insult, insult, insult.

You sound like Boehner.

Now THAT's an insult.

:hi:

so maybe you should stick with that. :eyes:

opposition he would encounter.

Why weren't advocates for it ever included in the negotiations?

If he really ever meant it he would have brought in allies who supported it. He didn't.

I think the idea that he supported a public option is based on faith, not fact.

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

"If you like the plan you have, you can keep it!"

Single payer would have eliminated union-fought healthcare benefits as well.

I don't think he ever meant it. The fact that Obama wouldn't even put single payer on the table leads me to believe that he felt the 'public option' was his big trump card when it came to the health care game. He figured if he could get close to what he wanted he could then sacrifice the public option to get the bill that was his goal to begin with. Like most Presidents I don't know if this is all Obama's idea or if he is being heavily influenced by people like Emmanuel (sp?).

Until he's in a position to actually make them happen.

People are stuck on the words "public option" like it's some kind of hypnotic mantra without understanding half the time what they're talking about.

Jacob Hacker, who is credited with coming up with the idea of the public option still supports the Senate bill and made a series of suggestions that Obama appears to have taken very seriously because nearly all of them are in Obama's proposal. Hacker himself said the public option was meant as a means to an end. His suggestions that Obama have taken up are that means to an end. If you have no idea what I'm talking about, Google, Jacob Hacker, "Why I Still Believe in the Senate Bill."

but then people can't complain about the word "public option".

Great plan.

Then what ??

maybe you should sign on to the MoveOn Virtual March tomorrow - Wed. Feb. 24. If Obama is going to let the Senate decide, it's up to us to let our Senators know we want a PUBLIC OPTION or MEDICARE FOR ALL and that kissing up to so-called "moderate" Republicans and "conservative" Democrats will not help them in November. It might work and it can't hurt.

Sign up here

as I know you cannot choose which one want you want at their link.

:shrug:

you can advocate for anything you want to . . . just do it. The numbers of callers expressing support for health care reform that actually helps the middle class, the underemployed, the self-employed, and all the others that fall through the cracks when insurance companies have no real competition or regulation is what is important. We are paying attention.

MoveOn just makes the calling easy, they don't tell you what to say.

I just called Senators Kerry and Brown in Massachusetts. We know more than any other state what a health care system without competition does. We have the "Romney Plan" which is very similar to the original plan the Senate came up with. I avoid going to the doctor because my "affordable" insurance doesn't cover enough for me to afford paying the premiums and the high deductibles and co-pays for the tests he orders.

Please call and say whatever you want about health care. Let them know we are hurting out here.

sure you can call for any reason, but people should know this is not a Medicare for All movement.

Actually the fax does not even mention the PO.

I've let my reps know that we need a real discussion on health care.

:)

He also painted Clinton's support of mandates as flawed and larcenous. He said trying to solve the health care problem by mandating purchase is like trying to solve the homeless problem by passing a law that everybody had to buy a house.
He said that affordable products offering excellent value do not need mandates, that only over priced and under performing products need to be forced on people.
He said it live, he said it in print, he made commercials and mailers and in all of them he opposed mandates and mocked Clinton for supporting them.
So your odd comment seems delusional. He won the Primary by opposing mandates.

yeah right - just like his other "promises"...

that's a good one, tho...

Polls show PEOPLE WANT IT!

So why aren't we getting it?

building who bloviate on the television.

They don't want it more than he wants it.

People shaw do think it's like snapping his fingers. Shaw 'Nuff.

Look at the fucking tools he has in the DEMOCRATIC party to deal with.

He has 22 or 23 sigs on a page asking for the public option.

Now you tell me SPECIFICALLY how the fuck he gets the other 26 or 27.

I just love the backseat drivers and the demi-experts around here.

:hurts:

And people who sit back and wait for a President to deliver things to them are pathetic.

:shrug:

Senator Snowe said she had received a personal phone call from the president, and only afterward changed her vote for the (cloture on the) jobs bill from "no" to "yes".

I guess Obama promised to leave the Public option out in return for those votes on the jobs bill (Snowe, Brown, Collins, Voinovich...)

things have changed since July 2009.

HCR needs to be passed. Passing HCR will make further reform in the future easier. Passing nothing = hello Republicans in 2010 and 2012.

I am sure it had something to do with a backroom deal.

Seriously though, I truly doubt he was ever FOR any form of public option....rather it was just a product of the "Progressive Mantle" that DLC Dems don for campaign purposes, and then discard immediately after being elected.

He used it when he needed it, dropped it when addressing different audiences, then just let it go and pretended he never heard of it.

The only thing that ever really mattered was getting that mandate to fill the coffers of the insurance companies.

That is what this has all been about.

the passion for health care, and Obama would add a "me too" response, but never with the passion of other issues that he talked about.

I think his support for the public option was only to position himself better within the party during the primaries. Nothing more.

Once President, he tried to use the health care bill as an example of how he could get big things done in a bipartisan way. Here the process was more important than the issue. That would explain his over-patience with the gang of six. I think he wanted the health care bill to set up a coalition that would also pass cap and trade, bank regulation, etc. This explains why he never has anything negative to say about Baucus or Liebermann, but has big issues with Dean, Weiner, and the House progressives that insisted on some form of public option in lieu of single payer.

If it's not bipartisan, it's not Obama. Process over policy. Boy, has he lost his way. Too bad for us...

So, how do we send the wake-up call?

What is our next move?

He has long ago abandoned us to this nonsense.

I don't see anywhere to turn.

prominent people and politicians. I can only assume that he has rejected the call to be a bold leader with an "urgency of now" in the face of intransigent opposition, and has become intransigent himself with his commitment to the process of bipartisanship above policy. After all, he has been passionate about the No Red states, No Blue states, just the United States meme. I thought that was to focus on the majority of beliefs we all have in common as Americans. It didn't mean to capitulate to the opposition and abandon our core beliefs to make it appear bipartisan.

I keep hoping that he will be like Rocky in Rocky II, where he waits until the last minute to switch to South-Paw. He has wasted more than a year trying to appease the conservatives in order to get them to work with him. Hopefully, he will turn into a real leader by threatening to expose their hypocrisy. He did say he planned on calling out people back when he was candidate. Of course he said a lot of things.

I wish for things like calling out Joe Lieberman for killing health care and taking away his chairmanship and seniority in the democratic caucus. I hope he will ask the fiscal hawks that demand spending cuts to propose what cuts they want in their own districts. I want him to have them explain why they voted for the Bush tax cuts, but now worry about the deficit when the money will be spent on the poor and disadvantaged.

I loved the first meeting he had with the republicans. He was a man among boys, so to speak. Hopefully round 2 will be the same. I am also heartened to see the republicans break ranks on the jobs bill.

What to do? I'll keep bothering Feingold and Kohl, my 2 senators, and wait and see. I don't think this has completely played out yet. I sense something in the air.

Maybe the louder November 2nd call will awaken them?

It's certainly going to unseat them.

Tesha

He has to deal with the reality of being in the WH now - he'd have to veto the bills he could get out of this Congress.

Being inflexible is Republican-like. You learn more in life as you go. Sometimes you have to change your mind.

I don't see that vetoing what he could get out of Congress because it does not contain the PO would be best for the country.

he was president at the time

.

all in little more than a year. Sad.

or maybe a veiled threat to the republicans.

Others would loudly shout "HE'S BETTER THAN MCCAIN, ISN'T HE?" and still others would make the claim that anything said on the way to beating the repugs is OKAY in their book, as long as our side won. Don't forget the group who tries to convince you that you're taking His words out of context.

In the meantime maybe he could come up with something to raise money and bring out the vote, because from what I'm seeing so far, unless the Republicans run Cheney / Palin, I'm not even going to bother to vote in 2012.

The system is broken.

I now give all my (political) money to:
http://www.freeclinics.us

March 27, 2010 Atlanta GA is the site for the next Communities Are Responding Everyday (C.A.R.E.) Clinic.

If you would like to volunteer please visit http://www.regonline.com/atlanta_care_clinic

Patients may call 1-877-233-5159

so reluctantly I give him a pass on this--wiggle room, even though I don't believe anything is as good at controlling costs as single payer, and I'm sure Obama must know this too.