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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 05:55 AM
Original message
Biggest loser last night was Union Management.
+The spent $10M on the Arkansas race and lost. Could have spent that money on the general election. They wanted to send a "message" and instead they lost credibility and pissed off the White House. So now we have a fractured Party in Arkansas and an even weaker candidate.

Lesson Learned. If you are going to Primary an incumbent, you better not rely on Union Management to get out the vote.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 06:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. Are you Ben Smith's unnamed source?
kidding aside, both Dems were consistently polling behind the Republican the whole race. I'm not seeing what return the 10-mil would get us even if Halter had beaten her.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 06:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. It was an attempt to scare moderate Democrats into being obedient to union leaders
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quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 06:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. More fully stated, a failed attempt to scare moderate dems
Two things to learn:

A primary challenge to a two term incumbent is tough,

and if you are going to try it, you better have a very strong candidate and win.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #3
21. And this wasn't the right state for unions to try to prove their point
Union membership in AR is only about 1/3 of the national average:

http://www.aflcio.org/joinaunion/why/uniondifference/uniondiff16.cfm
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 06:36 AM
Response to Original message
4. I heard a commentator say last night - can't remember who it was - that one of labor's mistakes
Edited on Wed Jun-09-10 06:38 AM by EffieBlack
was to talk so loud and be so obvious about what they were doing. According to him, they should have gone about trying to unseat hear more quietly and strategically. I thought that was interesting.

That said, I have noticed that labor is not as effective as it once was in turning out the vote because they are still utilizing older GOTV methods which don't work as well these days.
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 06:44 AM
Response to Original message
5. They could have spent the money on the general election.
But I guess they didn't want to help corporate democrats continue stabbing blue collar Americans in the back.

Lesson Learned: Labor is fed up. Don't expect their help in November.
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. No they wanted to attempt to destroy a corporate Dem and failed spectactularly
250,0000 votes cast in the runoff. They made just 60,000 phone calls. pretty damn worthless GOTV effort.
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. OK then have it your way Labor will be lining up and falling all over themselves to vote for Lincoln
in November. :eyes:
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. There really aren't too many union members in Arkansas
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bornskeptic Donating Member (951 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #12
42. Here are their alternatives.
Blanche Lincoln
2008 Senator Lincoln supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 90 percent in 2008.

2008 Senator Lincoln supported the interests of the AFL-CIO - Lifetime 82 percent during their legislative career up until 2008.

2008 Senator Lincoln supported the interests of the American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees 78 percent in 2008.

2008 Senator Lincoln supported the interests of the American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees - Lifetime 81 percent during their legislative career up until 2008.

http://www.votesmart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=26723&type=category&category=43&go.x=15&go.y=15

*********************************************************************************************

John Boozman
2008 Representative Boozman supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 13 percent in 2008.

2008 Representative Boozman supported the interests of the AFL-CIO - Lifetime 14 percent during their legislative career up until 2008.

2008 Representative Boozman supported the interests of the American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees 14 percent in 2008.

2008 Representative Boozman supported the interests of the American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees - Lifetime 5 percent during their legislative career up until 2008

http://www.votesmart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=27958&type=category&category=43&go.x=15&go.y=17

One of the two is going to win in November. If they see no reason to prefer one of them, they have the right to stay home.
Of course some of them might have an interest in other issues, such as, for example, a woman's right to choose. There seems to be a little difference on that.

2009 Representative Boozman supported the interests of NARAL Pro-Choice America 0 percent in 2009.

2008 Representative Boozman supported the interests of Planned Parenthood 0 percent in 2008.

2007-2008 Representative Boozman supported the interests of the National Family Planning & Reproductive Health Association 0 percent in 2007-2008.

2007-2008 Representative Boozman supported the interests of the National Right to Life Committee 100 percent in 2007-2008.

2009 Senator Lincoln supported the interests of NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2009.

2008 Senator Lincoln supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2008.

2008 Senator Lincoln supported the interests of Planned Parenthood 92 percent in 2008.

2007-2008 Senator Lincoln supported the interests of the National Right to Life Committee 0 percent in 2007-2008.




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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #42
47. But Lincoln is not 100% in support. Primary her.
Halter would not have been much different.

Just like supporting Specter was a bad decision, supporting Halter was a bad decision.
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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #7
35. It would have made sense if Halter was all that different, but he wasn't.
If labor wants to make a dent for progressive causes, Arkansas is not the place to do it.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
6. A case could be made
that Lincoln can use this to her advantage in the general. Can't remember who said that on morning Joe but it made sense to me. Of course everyone has already written her off. I don't know, I think she should have a shot assuming the economy continues to improve.
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. She won in part because she ran against "Washington Unions"
She won't get any GOTV support from them that's dor sure. But I don't see how she can run that same campaign in the Fall,
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. I think she can appeal to independents
as far as GOTV, its true that will be a problem, but when is that not a problem in mid-terms.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 07:19 AM
Response to Original message
9. When you run around closing polling stations
Edited on Wed Jun-09-10 07:20 AM by AllentownJake
You have a better shot at winning.

Bully for Blanche. Went to segregation era tactics. Not saying it was racially targetted, but that is where these tactics originated.
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. That had nothing to do with the candidates.
Only 250,000 votes were cast in the runoff. I bet if you look at the precinct level demographics that African Americans went pretty strongly for Lincoln, (Bill Clinton's endorsement was pivotal to that) Still only 125,000 Dems took the time to get to the polls for Halter. Hardly a great showing in a state of several million.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. I didn't say it was racially motivated
Edited on Wed Jun-09-10 07:31 AM by AllentownJake
Closing polling stations in certain districts was a tactic used during the segregation era by officials to discourage african americans from voting. The tactic had its birth in those days.

In 2010, the tactic could be used to target an opponents supporters regardless of race.

In PA all polling stations are open every election regardless of turnout expectations...for that reason.
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Fine but again it had nothing to do with who was in the race.
Nothing.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. It has to do with who won. nt
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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
11. Actually, the democratic party
There's a split forming in the democratic party. The Rockfeller republicans that have shifted over from the GOP are having more influence in certain areas, and the working class democrats are losing ground to them. The president is siding with the former. Ultimately, much like Reagan, it will mean that the GOP will be able to cherry pick certain democratic voters. He was elected by the "Reagan democrats", who were predominately blue collar and union. The democrats continue to ignore them at their peril.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
16. They won by closing polling places and making it hard for Blanche's opponents to vote.
It is called corruption, and the tactics go back to the days of segregation.

Blanch is a tainted candidate, the product of an corrupt election that would have been condemned by international observers.

The big loser last night was democracy.
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. an assertion without evidence are both easy and tiresome.
Show me a shredof evince to support the assertion that Lincoln cronies conspired at anytime to close polling places. . Show me evidence that the consolidation worked against Halter and benefited Lincoln Halter got 125,000 votes and the Unions only made 60,000 phonecalls. The unions simply did not get the job done.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #17
29. A shred of evidence.
http://mydd.com/2010/6/7/ar-sen-not-enough-polling-places-in-halter-stronghold-2

]b]AR-Sen: Not enough polling places in Halter stronghold
by desmoinesdem, Mon Jun 07, 2010 at 05:45:49 AM EDT

Arkansas Lieutenant Governor Bill Halter has momentum going into tomorrow's runoff election against U.S. Senator Blanche Lincoln, but only two polling places will be open in the most populous county Halter carried in the Democratic primary election. The Blue Arkansas blog has been all over this disturbing story. Garland County has about 80,000 residents, of whom about 12,000 voted at 42 polling places in the Democratic primary on May 18. The Chairman of the Garland County Election Commission, Charles Tapp, is not budging from the decision to open only two polling places in the county for the runoff. That will create obstacles for many voters, especially minorities and people in rural areas. On June 4 Tapp promised to open polling stations on the weekend to make it easier for people to vote, but the stations were closed on Saturday. ARDem explains why you should care:

Remember how rural voters broke so heavily for Halter in the primary? Well now those same rural voters have to travel miles across a mountain range to get to town on a weekday to cast their vote <....> While Halter was going down to Hot Springs to stand up for the right to vote and stuck up for the people trying to do their sacred civic duty, Lincoln couldn’t even bother to talk to us with that condescending double speak of hers:
A spokesperson with Senator Blanche Lincoln’s campaign said they do not have any comment at this time.

Couldn’t even say they were troubled by it.

Pulaski County, which Lincoln carried easily on May 18, has about six times the population of Garland but will have about 50 times as many voting locations open on June 8. Blue Arkansas is urging disenfranchised voters to call Lincoln's campaign, the Garland County Elections Commission, the Arkansas Elections Commission and the U.S. Department of Justice. The White House and Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, which are backing Lincoln, should also denounce any attempt to suppress the vote in Arkansas and should demand that a sufficient number of polling stations be open statewide tomorrow.

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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. doesn't seem so
Halters numbers were down everywhere pretty much. More polling places wouldn't have helped him.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #18
30. The evidence
ttp://mydd.com/2010/6/7/ar-sen-not-enough-polling-places-in-halter-stronghold-2

It may not have made the difference.

But it looks sleazy, and is worth investigating further.
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #30
34. It is not evidence of anything.
No one was disenfranchised. It was a cost saving move given that the run off was not budgeted for.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. Why the huge disparity between the Halter and Lincoln precincts? nt.
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. What huge disparity?
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. Read the link and get back to me. Or not.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
20. They were so busy tooting their horn that they made her look like a victimized, embattled outsider
Stupid.
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #20
36. Yeah I think that is about right.
I have little use for the Senator and would have preferred Halter....but she finessed it very well
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
23. As a lifelong union member.. BINGO! Its turning out the members
that is important.

Besides, some union members are still smarting from how Richard Gephardt was treated by other parts of the party.. Just a fact.. not starting a flame war.. just how some felt..
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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. Agreed
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #23
45. Is this thread the 'support for labor on DU' you were heralding?
Lol.
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RollWithIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
24. Was always puzzled why they would try to primary Arkansas of all places...
Arkansas is NOT a big union state. And it's a very conservative state which is less likely to listen to union paid advertising.
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quiller4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #24
43. and SEIU was the face of the campaign and of all the larger unions
it has the smallest membership in the state.
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
26. UNREC
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martymar64 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
27. It's a loss for working people and a victory for big business
Lincoln will now be even more in the pocket of the new aristocracy, Big Insurance, Big Pharma, Big Oil and Big Banks.

Working people will get no support from Lincoln or the White House. To them we're just a bunch of fucking peasants.
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NorthCarolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
28. I think voting shenanigans proves 'Democracy' was the Biggest Loser last night. eom
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
31. What Union are you a member of, OP?
Answer is of course, that you are not a Union member. Which means your point of view is slanted and biased, as well as lacking the lifetime of constant activism that you would need to understand what you just saw in AR. The administration's petty, prickish widdle statement is not the sound of a confident group of people. A confident winner does not gloat and insult the loser on day one. The tone of the quote sounds like panic to me. Accusations and wild divisive statements are really not the accepted way in primary politics, because the opponents are expected to then vote for the winner. So it is just stupid to go out and shit on people because you won by closing polls and cheating.
Loud mouthed, anti equality cheaters. This batch makes that 'faith' of theirs look tawdry and downright evil.
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. I chose my words very carefully. You did not
I think Unions are great. I think Union Management in this particular instance did a shitty job.


I am not a union member.. but I do not see how in the word that would make me biased against unions. Hell most people on DU are not Union members. But to your absolutely asinine, wild and divisive and uniformed point. I have been an ardently deep blue activist for 31 years. an I will match my Democratic Party pedigree against anyone's on DU.

Halter's numbers were down across the state. You have not a shred of evidence to support your supposition that polls were intentionally closed to the detriment of Halter or for the benefit of Lincoln.


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tranche Donating Member (913 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #31
40. If you're not a union member then your point of view is "slanted and biased"?
Way to make friends there.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
33. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
jn2375 Donating Member (858 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
41. dissing unions will make it impossible for Halter to now back Lincoln
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
44. It's always a big loss when you invest so much money into a race you lose.
Specifically when, at the time, your guy looks like the perceived favorite.

I'm a pro-union guy, but their political muscle just isn't what it used to be. You don't win elections anymore with union support alone.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
46. Biggest loser was the Democratic party
and its principles.
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
48. I disagree.
Blanche Lincoln is a no-count shitnuts and deserved to lose her primary--I don't blame organized labor for doing what they did and I'm really surprised at how tin-eared that comment from the White House was (that's assuming it's an actual quote and not a Politico construct to foment animosity between the White House and labor).
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