Help! This is what an old high school friend now tea-bagger wrote on her facebook,

DOJ sues Arizona. Amazing. Obama could strike a deal. Beef up the border, do his job and protect Americans, visit the border and see what goes on. No, he'll just sue a state and whine about how big the border is, it's to hard to protect it. Leader of the free world. What a Wuss.



Help me respond:

The independent Judiciary is. What part of the defense budget would Arizonans like to see cut to do all the things they want the Federal government to do? If they believe that this is the Federal Government's responsibility, how do they propose the Federal Government pay for it? Tax cuts?

The Judiciary or Legislature does something bad, then it's Obama's fault. Obama did this, Obama didn't do that, so on and so forth.

The legislature or judiciary does something good... and Obama is unconnected to it.

Now, I'm not saying you're wrong; this is the Judiciary and not the President. I'm just saying i've noticed the curious double standard floating around this palce of late :)

It started here on DU less than 48 hours after the November 2008 election was called.

it's Obama's fault. He the Marxist, Muslim Dictator.

The parent post is wrong.

Holy shit guys, this is like high-school-level civics. The Department of Justice is an *executive* agency! That's why the President appoints the Attorney General, you know?

but the Justice Dept can and does act independent of the White House. Rememmber Janet Reno and the Monica Lewinski investigation? She authorized expanding it upon Ken Starr's recommendation. I don't think Clinton was too pleased about that.

The independent counsel statute only allowed her to dismiss the independent counsel for just cause.

And anyways is there any suggestion that such a dynamic is in play in this case? Unless you have some evidence that the AG is working against the President's wishes - which is highly unusual - I think it's safe to assume that this lawsuit has, at a very minimum, Obama's tacit approval.

but if it goes south then Congress, the judiciary, the media, liberals, or somebody is going to be blamed.

I don't think this dynamic, either way, is new or Obamacentric. As far as I can tell this has been a part of American politics for a long time but maybe getting more confused as the Executive branch expands in power and the Constitution and precedent are ignored in order to benefit the wealthy few.

You're wrong.

If you're going to correct somebody like a pompous ass then at least make sure you are correct on the facts.

The Department of Justice is an executive organization, run by the Attorney General, who serves at the pleasure of the President and is considered to be a key part of a President's administration.

http://www.justice.gov/02organizations/about.html

I find it's better not to engage them, they're like rodents, they shouldn't be fed.

protecting our borders.

The illegal immigrants haven't just been coming across the border for the past 18 months. Perhaps there would be more national guard men and women to help secure the border if they weren't in Iraq.

of course, that's a sarcastic response that isn't really an answer at all.

If I were ambitious, I would research how many miles long the border is, how much territory a person could reasonably expect to watch and then calculate how many people it would take and what it would really cost to seal up the border. Then I'd have to remind them it still wouldn't catch people who come here legally as visitors and then just don't leave.

together and post it. I want it to be profound.

And ask how she feels about taking that amount out of the Iraq/Afghanistan war budgets.

power to legislate. If she loves the U.S. so much, why does she have a problem with anyone defending the Constitution?

proactive I think it is called.
Disputes between states and the Fed are often settled in court. Does she want the US to invade Arizona or something?

protect the border. AND guess what I couldn't find where he did a damn thing.

People like that will not be happy until we invade Mexico.

She obviously has no clean what she is talking about either.

Based on the comments you'd be wasting your time....

illegal immigrants' children are fighting for the Us in our wars, they pay taxes, they have lived here for generations, they are hired by US corporations and they are used as slave labor. They cross the boarder because NAFTA has made it impossible for them to grow and sell their own products on the marked as the US subsidizes our crops so that we can monopolize the market. The following is a chronological history of how the US stole land from Mexicans, next you should read about how we stole land from the Indians. What ever happened to the words on the Statute of Liberty: Bring us your hungry, poor, huddled masses...., something like that. I'm pretty sure you consider yourself a christian, who would Jesus not feed, house and clothe?

Excerpt:
Did you know that until 1848 California, New Mexico and other portions of the Southwest were internationally recognized provinces of free Mexico, until the U.S. decided it wanted those provinces, declared war on Mexico, and stole them? Read on for the chronology of these events, and then ask yourself : "Who are the real illegal in California?"
Prior to 1822 What is today Mexico, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Utah, and California are all Spanish colonies.
1822 Mexican colonists, following the American revolution, rebel against Spain and win their own revolutionary war, making Mexico a free nation just like America.
1844 James Polk campaigns for the U.S. presidency, supporting expansion of U.S. territories into Mexico.
February, 1845 James Polk, on his inagauguration night, confides to his Secretary of the Navy that a principal objective of his presidency is the acquisition of California, which Mexico had been refusing to sell to the U.S. at any price.
Early 1845 The Washington Union, expressing the position of James Polk, writes: "...who can arrest the torrent that will pour onward to the West? The road to California will be open to us. Who will stay the march...?" "A corps of properly organized volunteers...would invade, overrun, and occupy Mexico. They would enable us not only to take California, but to keep it."
Early 1845 John O'Sullivan, editor of the Democratic review writes it is "Our manifest destiny to overspread the continent ...for the free development of our yearly multiplying millions."
Early 1845 James Polk promises Texas he will support moving the historical Texas/Mexico border at the Nueces river 150 miles south to the Rio Grande provided Texas agrees to join the union. "The traditional border between Texas and Mexico had been the Nueces River...and both the United States and Mexico had recognized that as the border." (Zinn, p. 148)
June 30, 1845 James Polk orders troops to march south of the traditional Texas/Mexico border into Mexican inhabited territory, causing Mexicans to flee their villages and abandon their crops in terror.
"Ordering troops to the Rio Grande, into territory inhabited by Mexicans, was clearly a provocation." (Zinn, p. 148)

"President Polk had incited war by sending American soldiers into what was disputed territory, historically controlled and inhabited by Mexicans." (John Schroeder , "Mr. Polk's War")

Early 1846 Colonel Hitchcock, commander of the 3rd Infantry regiment, writes in his diary: "...the United States are the aggressors....We have not one particle of right to be here....It looks as if the government sent a small force on purpose to bring on a war, so as to have a pretext for taking California and as much of this country as it chooses....My heart is not in this business."
May 9, 1846 President Polk tells his cabinet: "...up to this time...we have heard of no open aggression by the Mexican Army."
May 10, 1846 Violence erupts between Mexican and American troops south of the Nueces River. Of course Polk claims Mexicans had fired the first shot, but in his famous "spot resolutions" congressman Abraham Lincoln repeatedly challenges president Polk to name the exact "spot" where Mexicans first attacked American troops. Polk never met the challenge.
May 11, 1846 President Polk urges congress to declare war on Mexico.
May 12, 1846 : Horace Greeley writes in the New York Tribune: "We can easily defeat the armies of Mexico, slaughter them by thousands, and pursue them perhaps to their capital; we can conquer and "annex" their territory; but what then? Who believes that a score of victories over Mexico, the "annexation" of half of her provinces, will give us more Liberty, a purer Morality, a more prosperous Industry...?
1846 Congressman Abraham Lincoln, speaking in a session of congress "...the president unnecessarily and unconstitutionally commenced a war with Mexico....The marching an army into the midst of a peaceful Mexican settlement, frightening the inhabitants away, leaving their growing crops and other property to destruction, to you may appear a perfectly amiable, peaceful, un- provoking procedure; but it does not appear so to us."
after war is underway, the American press comments:
February 11, 1847. The "Congressional Globe" reports: "...We must march from ocean to ocean....We must march from Texas straight to the Pacific ocean....It is the destiny of the white race, it is the destiny of the Anglo-Saxon Race."

The New York Herald: "The universal Yankee Nation can regenerate and disenthrall the people of Mexico in a few years; and we believe it is a part of our destiny to civilize that beautiful country."

American Review writes of Mexicans "yielding to a superior population, insensibly oozing into her territories, changing her customs, and out-living, exterminating her weaker blood."

1846-1848 U.S. Army battles Mexico, not just enforcing the new Texas border at the Rio Grande but capturing Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, Colorado, and California (as well as marching as far south as Mexico City).
1848 Mexico surrenders on U.S. terms (U.S. takes over ownership of New Mexico, California, an expanded Texas, and more, for a token payment of $15 million, which leads the Whig Intelligencer to report: "We take nothing by conquest....Thank God").
(date unknown) General Ulysses S. Grant calls the Mexican War "the most unjust war ever undertaken by a stronger nation against a weaker one."
Primary Source: "We take nothing by conquest, Thank God", in A People's History Of the United States, 1492-Present, Howard Zinn, NY: HarperCollins Publishers, Inc. (This book is available on the shelf at virtually every bookstore in America. The New York Times Book Review says it "...should be required reading for a new generation of students...." )

employers that hire the illegals? Why not dry up the market for them coming over? The answer is Brewer is protecting the businesses at the same time she is treading on Hispanic Americans rights.

Requires that employers willfully hiring illegals lose all state business licenses, in effect a commercial death penalty.

I heard that it had some fines but nothing as severe as what you are stating. Could you please point me to a link showing that? Thanks.

23-212. Knowingly employing unauthorized aliens; prohibition;
false and frivolous complaints; violation;
classification; license suspension and revocation;
affirmative defense

A. An employer shall not knowingly employ an unauthorized alien.
If, in the case when an employer uses a contract, subcontract or other
independent contractor agreement to obtain the labor of an alien in this
state, the employer knowingly contracts with an unauthorized alien or with
a person who employs or contracts with an unauthorized alien to perform
the labor, the employer violates this subsection.

<snip>

F. On a finding of a violation of subsection A of this section:
1. For a first violation, as described in paragraph 3 of this
subsection, the court:
(a) Shall order the employer to terminate the employment of all
unauthorized aliens.
(b) Shall order the employer to be subject to a three year
probationary period for the business location where the unauthorized alien
performed work. During the probationary period the employer shall file
quarterly reports in the form provided in section 23-722.01 with the
county attorney of each new employee who is hired by the employer at the
business location where the unauthorized alien performed work.
(c) Shall order the employer to file a signed sworn affidavit with
the county attorney within three business days after the order is
issued. The affidavit shall state that the employer has terminated the
employment of all unauthorized aliens in this state and that the employer
will not intentionally or knowingly employ an unauthorized alien in this
state. The court shall order the appropriate agencies to suspend all
licenses subject to this subdivision that are held by the employer if the
employer fails to file a signed sworn affidavit with the county attorney
within three business days after the order is issued. All licenses that
are suspended under this subdivision shall remain suspended until the
employer files a signed sworn affidavit with the county attorney.
Notwithstanding any other law, on filing of the affidavit the suspended
licenses shall be reinstated immediately by the appropriate agencies. For
the purposes of this subdivision, the licenses that are subject to
suspension under this subdivision are all licenses that are held by the
employer specific to the business location where the unauthorized alien
performed work. If the employer does not hold a license specific to the
business location where the unauthorized alien performed work, but a
license is necessary to operate the employer's business in general, the
licenses that are subject to suspension under this subdivision are all
licenses that are held by the employer at the employer's primary place of
business. On receipt of the court's order and notwithstanding any other
law, the appropriate agencies shall suspend the licenses according to the
court's order. The court shall send a copy of the court's order to the
attorney general and the attorney general shall maintain the copy pursuant
to subsection G of this section.
(d) May order the appropriate agencies to suspend all licenses
described in subdivision (c) of this paragraph that are held by the
employer for not to exceed ten business days. The court shall base its
decision to suspend under this subdivision on any evidence or information
submitted to it during the action for a violation of this subsection and
shall consider the following factors, if relevant:
(i) The number of unauthorized aliens employed by the employer.
(ii) Any prior misconduct by the employer.
(iii) The degree of harm resulting from the violation.
(iv) Whether the employer made good faith efforts to comply with
any applicable requirements.
(v) The duration of the violation.
(vi) The role of the directors, officers or principals of the
employer in the violation.
(vii) Any other factors the court deems appropriate.

2. For a second violation, as described in paragraph 3 of this
subsection, the court shall order the appropriate agencies to permanently
revoke all licenses that are held by the employer specific to the business
location where the unauthorized alien performed work. If the employer
does not hold a license specific to the business location where the
unauthorized alien performed work, but a license is necessary to operate
the employer's business in general, the court shall order the appropriate
agencies to permanently revoke all licenses that are held by the employer
at the employer's primary place of business. On receipt of the order and
notwithstanding any other law, the appropriate agencies shall immediately
revoke the licenses.

that already. For he was a cheerleader in college. Now talk about macho man.

That's what made George W. Bush such a powerful force against illegal immigration, because he cranked out two recessions and a financial crisis, making America a much more undesirable place to start a new life.

It was an effective action in the exact same way that shooting one's self in the foot is an effective way to avoid dancing at a cousin's wedding.

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It's just a Facebook page.

A state can't deport anyone. Is Arizona going to have concentration camps?