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Nate Silver: "Early Voter ‘Enthusiasm Gap’ Appears Consistent With Polls"

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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 09:20 PM
Original message
Nate Silver: "Early Voter ‘Enthusiasm Gap’ Appears Consistent With Polls"
Edited on Sun Oct-24-10 09:26 PM by Clio the Leo
Warning, this is NOT a feel good article, do not read if if you need your progressive ego stroked. It is, however, the FIRST article that I have seen to address the "dems surging in early voting but lagging in the polls" notion. I've been CRAVING someone to do this story for weeks. I'm a life long fan of the Alabama Crimson Tide and Bear Bryant never sounded confident of a win until it actually happened. I think we'd all do well to operate with an abundance of caution.

Early Voter ‘Enthusiasm Gap’ Appears Consistent With Polls
October 24, 2010, 9:58 PM
By NATE SILVER

There’s been a lot of discussion recently about early voting data, which is already available in a number of states. In most parts of the country, indeed, a voter is already able to cast a ballot if she wants do.

This early voting data is very attractive in one way: since many states track the number of early voters by political party, it reflects the first ‘hard’ evidence we have about the turnout of actual voters in this year’s elections. Those of you who don’t trust the turnout estimates that pollsters are coming up with might therefore be especially fond of it.

I would, however, urge some caution when reading articles about these early voting statistics. Like most other types of political data, they can be prone to either misinterpretation or to ’spin’.

First, early patterns seem to differ a lot from state to state this year — with Republicans posting terrific numbers in some states at the same time Democrats do surprisingly well in others. So there tends to be some cherry-picking in the analysis of results: Democrats, for instance, might point to their numbers in Iowa and Ohio, which are good, and Republicans theirs in Florida or Pennsylvania.

Second — even if we know how many people in each party have cast ballots so far — it’s not clear what the point of comparison ought to be to be. Is the benchmark supposed to be 2008, when Democrats put a ton of emphasis on early voting? (If so, this year’s numbers look really good so far for Republicans.) Or is then benchmark the years prior to 2008, when the conventional wisdom held that older voters — who are more likely to be Republican — were most inclined to vote early or by mail? Is the idea that, because Republicans are apparently more fired up in this election, they ought to be doing especially well among early voters? Or can the number of early voters be taken more or less at face value in terms of predicting the eventual turnout? Articles grounded in different assumptions about the comparisons may come to very different conclusions about what the early voting data implies.

That said, I do think there is some value in looking at the early voting numbers. And they seems to point toward an enthusiasm gap that is broadly consistent with what the pollsters are seeing.

<snip>

Overall, however, the early voting data does not provide compelling reason to reject the consensus among pollsters, which is that the enthusiasm gap is most likely to manifest itself in a mid-to-high single digit turnout advantage for Republicans. When coupled with the edge that Republican candidates have among independent voters in most races, this suggests that they are liable to have a pretty good year.

(more....)
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/24/early-voter-enthusiasm-gap-appears-consistent-with-polls/




The last two columns on the right tell the tale...
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Hawkeye-X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. Polls are irrelevant
I've already ignored 99% of the polls.

The real poll will come out on November 3rd.

That's the only one that counts.

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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. Boy, that is some really complicated meaningless babble. nt
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
3. Could He Be More Convoluted In His Spin?
Edited on Sun Oct-24-10 10:56 PM by Me.
Dems are doing well in some states, Cons are doing well in other so yes there is an enthusiasm gap which favors the Cons.
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Dawson Leery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Nate is part of the MSM.
Edited on Sun Oct-24-10 11:06 PM by Dawson Leery
Democrats are taking massive wins in California and New York. Nate should stick to baseball stats.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
25. I know...the guys numbers are off. n/t
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DFLforever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
5. Nate, the expert, thinks PA has early voting?
and that the Repukes could point to their EV lead there!

While I don't accept him as a prophet, I didn't think he'd be that far off in basic accuracy.



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Dawson Leery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Correct, PA does not have early voting. About 10% of voters requested absentee ballots though.
Nate's showing that he is a tool.
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DFLforever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Thanks for that info. That must be what he's referring to.
I agree with you - he is a tool.
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Dawson Leery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Absentee ballots do not reflect the entire electorate the way that early voting does.
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DrToast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Early voting doesn't reflect the entire electorate
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Absentee ballots are not counted until after the election. n/t
Edited on Mon Oct-25-10 01:41 AM by wisteria
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #11
27. Now you have to wonder....what is he referring too? n/t
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. Nope, PA does not have early voting. Um, he got that wrong. Makes me wonder what else is wrong. n/t
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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 06:32 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. The early voting statistics in many states include absentee ballot requests.
Edited on Mon Oct-25-10 06:33 AM by FBaggins
Many states even use the absentee ballot for the early voting. You're essentially requesting an absentee ballot and then turning it in right away.

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Cosmocat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Yeah ...
again, people just not getting Pa ...

The Rs ALWAYS lead in absentee voting ... Their long standing ground game gets the elderly population to get their absentee ballots to them and in the mail ... The loose law in the state is that you have to have some kind of "reason" to request an absentee ballot, a lot of the R elderly get them saying they can't get to the polls ...

Does not change the overall major edge in party affiliation ... OFA and the dem ground game (including the unions) is not at 06/08 levels, but it IS there ...

Nate says the Rs are set to make gains ...

Really?

Brilliant ...
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Aramchek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
31. do you defend everything Nate does instinctively?
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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Nope... but there is an instinct involved here.
Edited on Mon Oct-25-10 04:17 PM by FBaggins
Your attack on any news you don't like.


In this case, nothing in the post you replied to had anything to do wtih Silver's analysis. The poster made an incorrect statement about PA's statistics and I corrected it.

Do you always shoot the messenger?
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Aramchek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. when the message is always the same, you cease to be a messenger
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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. So you're saying that you attack the messenger... AND
you don't pay attention.

Got it.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
26. Everything?!
He's picking and choosing and then spinning.
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 01:58 AM
Response to Original message
12. I don't understand that table. La. has 4% early voting, mainly Democratic...
but in the last columns, the author turns that into a Republican advantage of 21%? I don't see an explanation for that. (La. is a red state, BTW)

Then there are the states that don't register voters' political parties, like my state, Texas.

Notwithstanding all that gobbledeegook, I would believe that there is an enthusiasm gap. The tea partiers are spittin' mad, and older voters tend to vote more than younger voters in mid-term elections, so.....

As for the year to compare to, the author wondered whether it should be 2008 or some other year. Duh. That's a no-brainer. 2008 was a presidential election year...not comparable to a mid-term election year at all. Everyone knows that. 2010 should be compared to another mid-term year, probably 2006.
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I agree, 2008 should not be the reference point
I just mentioned that in a comment to Nate's post. For one thing, many of the Party ID numbers he is using are representative of 2008 but not the state under normal circumstance. Nevada, for example, was +8D in 2008 but in midterms it's always R leaning in Party ID.

Louisiana registers D but votes R. Using DINO states like that will always throw off a table like this.

I agree with other posters, he should have made a distinction between early voting and absentee ballots, instead of lumping them. He got his numbers from a Politico column by Molly Ball. I'm familiar with her, a young political reporter who spent years with the Las Vegas Review Journal. She was interesting on local political shows, not a wretched wing nut like virtually everyone from that paper. Still, when I saw her name I cringed and couldn't take everything at face value.
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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. LA is a "red state", but democrats have a significant registration advantage there.
Many of the southern states have a significant number of voters who are registered as democrats, but who vote republican (at least for national races).

That's a no-brainer.

Unfortunately not. It would be a no-brainer IF we had enough early voting statistics from 2006 or before, but 2008 was when people started to really pay attention to such voting. There just isn't enough to go on.
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. The two columns on the right are produced by subtraction.
Start on the left and subtract pairwise, sort of.

Number the columns 1-5, left to right. Column 4, the second from the right, equals column 1 - column 2. Column 5, the rightmost, is colum 1 minutes colum 3.

The Dem -21 is the Dem lead in "early voting" - the "2010 party reg" number. 4 minus 25. Column 1 minus column 2.

His only claim is voter "enthusiasm," and while it's not clear that this demonstrates greater repub enthusiam it's a result that's not inconsistent with greater repub enthusiasm. Which is precisely his (only) claim. Nobody knows who people are voting early for.

As for the "early voting" must mean "in person voting," his definition is blurry, as he makes clear by referring to early voting as either early voting or voting by mail.

The comparison year is also important and which is better is unknowable a priori. First, 2008 was an election year with a huge early vote push. Second, and no less important, 2008 altered the early voting landscape so that there's no reason to suspect that the 2010 early voting pattern will match 2006's. Many of the arguments are utilitarian and goal-oriented--we need the answer to look like what we want it to be.

I've said before and I continue to say it: The only people who really should be concerned about polls are candidates. (On the other hand, the quip that the only poll that matters is the one on 11/2 so this particular "poll" doesn't matter seems to overlook that this non-poll uses ambiguous but actual 11/2 data, as it were.)


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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 06:42 AM
Response to Original message
16. It would be more convincing if the comparison was with 2006, an other midterm election.\nt
Edited on Mon Oct-25-10 06:43 AM by Mass
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. No it wouldn't.
2008 brought early voting to a lot of voters' attention. While I don't think 2008 is a good comparison year, I also don't think 2006 would be much more convincing.

The "2010 party reg." seems like a decent number to cite, but I'm not even sure about that. Take Texas, for example. While they can't cite Texas number, in Texas your voter reg can be determined either when you register to vote *or* when you cast a primary ballot. If you cast a primary ballot in 2008 but not in 2010, that's your last party affiliation. Voter turnout was low in spring 2010, high in spring 2008, so the voter registration numbers in Texas are skewed. For all I know, they're skewed elsewhere, too.
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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. There just isn't enough data to go on for that.
Real early voting (as opposed to just returned absentee ballots) is a relatively new phenomenon in most states. There just isn't much out there to compare to.

Experts can look at precinct-by-precict returns on election day and tell you (even with only 15% reporting if they're the right ones) how the race is going - because they have dozens of past elections to look at for those precincts. But looking at this early voting data and trying to draw conclusions is a cr@p shoot.

Nate just revised his earlier comments to say essentially the same thing. Depending on which numbers you look at, the current turnout could reflect anything from the Gallup nightmare scenario to Democrats retaining both houses of Congress.

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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
21. Nate has added another blog post
where he attempts to emphasize that he does not think early voting can be used to predict enthusiasm.
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Valienteman Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Nate often wants to have it both ways
He says hey, Dems. might lose 18, but they might also lose 76, and in both cases I will have been correct, or something.
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Dawson Leery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Nate is in over his head.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. Nate's a flake. n/t
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
23. He had Toomey at 83% probability this morning
seemed excessive to me.
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
29. Here is an interesting response to Nate
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Aramchek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
30. With every Opinion Piece, Nate reveals his bias more clearly
He believes his own hype.
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