What If Willow Palin Called Her Facebook Nemesis The N Word, The K Word, Or The S Word?

Heads would be rolling.

Are some bigotries more acceptable than others?

being anti gay is OK for many people while being anti other things isn't.

She's a young adult. Also, I have friends with children and grandchildren her age. They would never countenance that language.

olds to be respectful of others. Someone obviously dropped the ball on the parenting here and she is 16 and should know better. She sounds like trash in the way she talks.

mom allegedly said, "So Sambo beat the bitch," so it wouldn't be too much of a stretch.

I need to see an attribution for that. That is flipping awful.

But here's their entry: http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/sambo.asp

I'm biased, but I tend to believe it. I can just HEAR her saying something like this.

I've since read the reporter's blog entry and his reply to critics and based on what we know about Palin now, I believe every word he said.

I really do not know.

Heard of the word, didn't get it in context. Thanx.

~

:evilgrin:

You buccaneers and freebooters are all the same to be. Better dead than pirate, I say.

:spray:

fuck you, landlubber :)

Whoever is giving her a pass is an asshole. It is totally unacceptable. People get away with racism and being racially insensitive all the time. Hell dog the bounty hunter called his kids girlfriend the N word. When he apologized A&E decided to renew his show. His excuse was they used that word all the time around his house. As if he did not know it was a derogatory term. Charlie sheen seems to have it bad for the N word as well. I don't hear a public outcry to get his stupid ass and his stupid show off the air. Mel Gibson is not a fan of the jews. However, it was not until he got caught on tape, once again, saying the N word and the S word did people finally take notice. John Mayer (sp) seems to have issue with the brown folks as well. I listed celebrities here because that is basically what the Palin clan is. They are stupid reality show celebrities. The TLC network might let their hillbilly antics pass but it not the first time a network looked the other way. Some people here on this site might let it pass but that is no indication that certain bigotries are more acceptable than others. And for those who are saying that it is ok because she is 16 then I hope that if the have children they are teaching them better. At that age she should know better. At that age gay kids are killing themselves for crap like that.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Not to mention, Don Imus was picked up again after his comment.

If Rick Warren's feelings towards gay people was extended to Hispanic people, who here would have defended his place at the inauguration?

If the Catholic Church's feelings towards gay people was extended to Black people, who here would defend them?

I knew better at sixteen not to call people the n word, the s word, the k word, or the n word. I knew better for two reasons. I wanted to keep my teeth and I knew it was just wrong.

Ever heard of Tom Tancredo? Sharron Angle? Jan Brewer?

I know it's not easy being gay in the US of A, but I don't think gays are legally required to carry their passports when they drive through Arizona.

because Arizona has a fucked up law?

I should say it's just HS stuff and we all hear it from time to time.

As a lesbian, I think sometimes, we're too PC (not just the gay community but America overall), that said, the OP has made a valid point. These kids who are so HS, aren't writing that this guy or that is a n*gger, k*ke or sp*ck, Willow wrote he was a faggot and people shove it aside and say, it's just high school stuff. Well, I disagree, it's not more high school to call someone gay or faggot/dyke than it is to use the above derogatory phrases.

NOT

she's a sixteen year old kid (read under legal age). Not my problem. If her behavior isn't a problem for her parents, her legal guardians, then what can I do about it? Nothing. So, she gets a pass from me because I'd get thrown in jail for spanking her or washing her mouth out with soap. Would I let it happen in my home? No. Would I allow one of those terms before another in my house? No. Is Palin's kid's behavior my problem? No. Can I do anything about Palin's kid? No.

Please, let's leave the children alone. The adults are causing enough problems.

Would your response be the same if she called someone the n word, the k word, or the s word. My friend nearly choked some yahoo within an inch of his life for calling him the "f word". It just so happened my friend was a competitive bodybuilder who could bench 455 pounds.

There are more important things to take on.

~

Instead of excusing it.

Willow is a child.

publicly criticized and condemned. Their bullying needs to be stopped.

:)

Billy Lucas was threatened with violence every day.

Andrew Shirvell set up a website to essentially stalk Chris Armstrong for SIX MONTHS.

Asher Brown had to move to a different school to escape months of bullying. (BTW, he was also bullied for his religion, something that many people here have little problem with)

The reason I bring up the details is because there is a lot more to bullying than a few words on a Facebook page. To compare what WIllow Palin did to what happened to these kids is rather sickening.

And if they think that kids of good liberal parents haven't ever used that language, that only Paleolithic Republicans use those words, they are dreaming.

they accepted an unwed pregnant girl - still with her boyfriend, not rushing to marry.

Yes, she's a minor, but 16 is still old enough to know you don't use slurs like that and everyone has a right to voice an opinion saying that it's wrong.

sees fit to tell her husband via facebook 'you are so gay' and other such lovely things like that. i tend to think this is something young people in general use in their everyday speech. i don't particularly care for the use of this term in such a derogatory manner myself. i cannot tell others what to do, but i have an 11 year old, 5 year old and 13 month old and certainly wouldn't allow them to use gay in that manner.

Young people toss the "gay" word as in "that's gay" way too much but calling somebody the f word rises to a whole new level.

It is all bad. Her parents need to be asked how she came up with such hateful rhetoric.

Kids do what kids do even if parents try hard to stop them. And to me at 16 W. Palin has enough sense to know better. I understand hating Palin---but let's be realistic here.

a lot of children, especially ones looking for attention or validation, will repeat what their parents say.

Racism is learned.

but let us not be quick to throw the racist charge. She could have very well LEARNED it from friends, as well.

Is it right of fair, NO

Is it true, YES

And had she chosen a different group to offend, the poutrage would be commensurate. I'm not sure whose heads are supoposed to roll over this. As a minor, her parents are solely responsible for her actions. The rest of us, not so much.:shrug:

At sixteen she is a young adult. If she robbed a bank would they throw her parents in the hoosegow?

As distasteful as her actions were, they were not illegal.

But a sixteen year old is responsible for what they say unless they have Tourette Syndrome.

I just don't feel "society" in general has a "responsibility" to censor free speech, no matter how distasteful. Which is far different than supporting or condoning it.

Yes, society has a responsibility to show its collective disapproval for hate speech. That's different than passing a law to prohibit said speech. If you think the two are mutually exclusive there is nothing I can do to disabuse you of that notion.

"Yes, society has a responsibility to show its collective disapproval for hate speech." Well, that's not quite what I said, is it? And I would not care to argue the point, as I am in agreement with it. I guess I would just say that I would reserve to only the parents or guardians the right to punish said "free speech". That is their responsibility in raising productive members of society, and it is sad that so many fail in their duty.

Given that your analogy was inappropriate to the situation, and that I am unclear what the two mutually exclusive things I hold to are, your conclusion is correct. I guess. Anyways, I'm over it, and the Palin children, and am going to move on.

I guarantee you if any of those other words were used, it wouldn't be brushed off as "kids talk."

Just sayin'

And if they acted like the Bush girls while their Dad was in office?

It would be yet one other thing the detractors would hold against Mr. Obama.

You have to give her some slack. Her mother "IS" Sarah Palin after all. How would anyone like to have to defend their mother for EVERYTHING. Her kids are probably laughed at and called names just because Palin is their mother. So I can see the anger that must be there. I mean everything about your family is in the news. And once again Sarah does and says something stupid, and the kids have to defend her. They all must be tired by now. Sarah better watch her back from her own kids. They just might let her have it one day.

Although this entire brouhaha stated a lot about how much of a lack of empathy American society has, this is about stopping the hate period.

The entire conversation on Willow Palin's page was sickening. So much so, that one can't simply say it's kids being kids. And as irritated and angry as I am over the defaming of the LGBTQI community as well as people of color, Common sense tells me that perhaps this is better for the Palin kids to continue showing their rotten behinds to the public. Each time they do it, the public gets an insight into the Palin clan. This unadulterated take allows the public to see how crude, racist and bigoted they are.

After such times, Sarah's publicist can't even rely on Snopes to disprove what happened. The proof of their crude, abhorrent behaviors and words are out there for all to see. And ad such, it makes them into bigger monsters than they already are.

This is why McCain should have been publicly shunned for unleashing these trogladytes into the American public.

She thought she was being endearing as in "Was up, n-words" Look at the conxtext of her post. Young folks of all colors need to be taught the n-word in never endearing or cool. It is an epithet and will always be an epithet.

If someone used the n word, the s word, the k word, the f word in my presence I would politely ask them to desist. If they failed to desist they would be pulling a size fourteen foot out of their ass. I find all hate speech patently offensive

As I said in my previous post some people, mostly young people, use the word in question as a term of endearment. Research the term, or better yet, ask some young people why they think what was once a horrible epithet is now seen by some as a term of endearment.

I would add if you read the thread the young woman using it wasn't using it as an epithet. It doesn't excuse the word but it does give context. I don't think Willow called her nemesis a f----t to endear herself to him.

I also don't think that "he" was using such language as a term of endearment. "He" was using the n-word to describe Willow's family with the Cosby family.

Secondly, I'm Black. I think I know all about the n-word and its permutations by now. And heck. I can even remember the times I was called one to my face.

Thirdly, I wouldn't expect anyone to defend the use of the word. I just find it rather fascinating in all this brouhaha that the n-word was overlooked until someone pointed it out late in the thread.

I didn't bring up the usage by the young African American woman because I didn't want to start a new discussion. Maybe Zack's comments were overlooked because he's just a garden variety idiot, not an idiot of famous spawn.

sorry.

By the media... because heads don't roll unless a factioned group are outraged. N word used and you have Al Sharpton is on that like white on rice. Would anyone else be... rather unlikely. Mel Gibson used the K word and it all it got him was a tiny bit of humilation but he's still making movies. S word--- people still use that?

I see quite a bit of anger on DU whenever a celebrity uses derogatory language against other minorities. Too many people here give a pass when it's the GLBTQI community...

You're too sensitive.
They didn't mean it THAT way.
Ponies/pet issues can mean any number of things.
Kids will be kids.
She's only 16.
It's not her fault.

Blah, blah, blah...

I have yet to see people not outraged. You realize in the text though...the N words were used. No one said much of anything by that being used.

I personally I have to see people apologize for Palin unless the 16 year old thing---and in that case---the one person I did see use it- was using it sarcastically.

Another thing I think people need to be aware of is that there are N word, S word, and K word people who are in the GLBT community. You should just remind these people that they are not mutually exclusive. In many cases on this board I tend to get annoyed when people say, "Would you say the same thing if they were Black?" And I'm like....Blacks make up a good majority of the GLBT community, so I'm trying to see what the point of argument is. It's not a racial group, it's made up of many racial groups.

She thought she was being endearing as in "Was up, n-words"

Young folks of all colors need to be taught the n-word in never endearing or cool...

Listen for 30 minutes - hear most of those words on the radio - or coming out of the cars that pass me on the road.

Willow is a kid - the music industry is a giant and much more influential than any product of Sarah Failin.

I have rarely, if ever (cannot remember one), seen a thread on the misogyny in the hip-hop\rap music. But I have seen a dozen or more on the posting of an angry teenager. I guess some folks like low hanging fruit.


Flame on, folks....

As a lesbian, I can call myself a dyke, gay men can refer to themselves as faggots, fairies, Mary's, you name it. Straight people cannot. African-American's can rap all they want about nigga's, so on and so forth. It's a double-standard, I know but, at least in the gay community, it has its reasons. It's all about taking the power out of the words, reclaiming those same words for ourselves so it hurts a little less when someone like Willow Palin calls someone a faggot as an insult. Or someone says, she's just a kid, she doesn't understand what she's saying or why make a big deal about this kid saying it when the record industry serves it up on local radio stations like a verb or noun.

I can proudly proclaim to be a dyke but don't you dare call me one (if I don't know you) because there's a difference in why it's being said.

So that's systemic bigotry: no civil rights in housing, in employment, in marriage, in the Armed Forces from cradle to grave.

But we do have that "special gay right" of having hate speech hurled at us from the pulpit, from elected officials, from judges, from our employers and from every walk of life from the moment we enter this world.

It's not only more acceptable, it's institutionalized and sanctioned.

People have their disrespect and prejudices and they keep it inside the home. But you should have the brains to not post it on an open forum for the whole world to see. That was just dumb.

LOL.

And that child is disgusting. How could any mother be okay with their child thinking and speaking that way. That apple must not be far from its tree.

Contrast this gutter-mouth, bratty little child with the refined, educated, and wholesome children of our president. One could do worse than to decide on the character of politicians by examining their children.

do you know what they do and say 24/7?

Palin is not my favourite person, and I don't like her parading her kids around. I don't have kids, but I was a kid, and while I didn't often use that slur I couldn't say I never have.

Sh*t, man, I'm not saying its okay but CUT HER SOME SLACK. I remember when Alec Baldwin used that same slur on a cop while protesting the way horses were treated by NYC police ( i think, it was a long time ago). SHould we hold that against him?

Homophobia sucks. But so does unleashing the thought police.

Yes I have kids. I have grandkids. We are a bunch of free-thinking, wild-eyed liberals. We don't speak that way. Our kids were taught early on to respect others and think of others. Like I said, I'm an old guy. So you can just chalk it up to old fogeyness if you like, but I think that sloppy behavior goes with sloppy thinking. Nasty behavior goes with a nasty personality. How far does slack go? I noticed that the handlers had gotten hold of the kids and they are apologizing all over the place. It's nice to admit when your lesser self takes over the reins. But I didn't notice SP denouncing the behavior (aside from the political cover). So sorry. If your kids act shitty, it reflects on you. My kids messed up when they were young. I took that as something I had to deal with. Now that they are grown, they are responsible for themselves. But Willow acting like an ass is only a reflection of SP being an ass. I really don't see Michelle's kids ever being like the inbred spawn of the Alaskan spider.

And what the hell does this have to do with the thought police? No one asked for anyone to go to jail. But I hope you aren't saying that this behavior is not covered by taste and manners. I didn't say they weren't allowed to think the way the do. I said that they are low class and wrong because of the way they think. And I think they got this from what passes for values in their family.

A nasty, hateful word, but a word that is often misused by young people. We're not talking physical assault. We're not even talking uttering threats. It is a *word*, just a word. You say your kids were taught to respect others. Can you truthfully claim that they ahve never, ever said anything like that?

You talk about respect. So you have never ever referred to Teabaggers, Repukes, called Bush mentally challenged, or made any derogatory comment about anybody you disagree with ("inbred spawn of the Alaskan spider?" what does that even mean?) You have never gleefully reveled in someone's private sexuality being made public (but then it's all about the hypocrisy, right?)

I don't think anyone here should throw stones about being civil.

But if you say that having your teen-age kids use derogatory terms for sexual preference doesn't reflect poor parenting or poor family values, you are kidding yourself.

But if you can prove to me that none of your children or grandchildren have ever used a derogatory term for anyone, then you can talk.

And my point is that it has nothing to do with parenting. Kids get these words from each other. in fact it's entirely part of rebelling.Willow Palin was just dumb enough to do it on Facebook.

This is not an esoteric, intellectual issue with me. Racial and gender and sexual preference prejudice and hate is wrong. This is beginning to sound like guys who like to tell derogatory jokes about women and then complain that the women have no sense of humor. Or the guys who tell race jokes and then defend themselves by saying they were only joking.

So if you think talking like this is okay, we don't agree. So go ahead with your points and your detached self. When your ox gets gored, I doubt you will defend the gorer because he was just kidding.

I have been called faggot myself. I've been berated by homophobes myself. It is not nothing. However, they are words, not actions. They are not the same as humiliating someone by posting their sexual activities online. They are not the same as the systematic bullying of people. Believe me, I know the difference. I was punched in the face by an older kid in my own school. That hurt a lot more than being called faggot.

And the reason I ask you to "prove" that is that there is the assumption that only "bad people" do bad things. That "our side" never does anything wrong.

What about prejudice and hate against mentally challenged people? Or did people who object to Rahm's use of "retard" have no sense of humour?

I'm just old I guess. Where did you come up with all this stuff? What's going on? You are upset about rahm's insensitivity, but not the palins? What side do you want to argue here.

Mine is simple. Kids who behave in a cruel or bigoted fashions are a reflection of the values of their parents. You disagree if you want.

"Where do I come up with all this stuff?" Rahm said it, and a lot of people here said Palin was being "too sensitive." I think it was vile of her to make it a personal issue. That didn't make it any less offensive. And frankly, I am more upset about Rahm's insensitivity, because he was an adult with one of the most powerful positions at that White House, not a 16-year-old kid on a Facebook page. It's context.


What I want to argue is not either side but to point out the hypocrisy of a site where people routinely refer to people as trash and worse for their political beliefs being up in arms over something a kid said.

When it comes to use of language, kids are far more influenced by their peers than their parents. And I pray that your kids and grandchildren never ever slip up once, never say anything foul about anyone.

Of the numerous reasons to not vote for Sarah Palin, the fact that her daughter used bad words twice would be somewhere near the bottom.

It's not about being "intellectual and cool about bigotry," it's about not deluding myself into thinking that bigotry somehow stops along party lines.

I think you are deluding yourself. You seem to believe that you can say blue and red at the same time. Don't worry about my kids. Just worry about yourself. Race jokes aren't right. Bigotry isn't right.

Show me where I said that bigotry went with party lines. You seem to want to argue about something other than what I said. So go find the post that triggered your libertarian rant and spout there. If you want to discuss this with me, at least stick with what I say. As I said. We just disagree.

Show me where I defended rahm for his stupid, insensitive words. You seem to want to say it was okay for him to say that because it was "just words". You fuss that he said it. Then you fuss that people attacked him. Just figure out what you think is right. Then do that.

Seriously, there s nothing "libertarian" by saying that words are just words. this is not trivial. People could go to jail for uttering "just words" in public as late as 40 years ago. People could be disciplined in college for "just words." That is frightening, and it has nothing to do with libertarianism. It's called freedom of speech.

"BIgotry isn't right." That's true. But there's a different standard for bigotry when it comes to people form red states. You made assumptions about Palin's parenting based on two little words. That's prejudicial, even bigoted. That was my first point.

My second point is that they are, in fact, just words. It's not that hard to understand.I think it was *unfortunate* that he said it. It's *unfortunate* that Willow Palin said that. But I refuse to permanently brand either of them as bigots for what they said in the heat of anger.

This is what you wrote

"And that child is disgusting. How could any mother be okay with their child thinking and speaking that way. That apple must not be far from its tree.
Contrast this gutter-mouth, bratty little child with the refined, educated, and wholesome children of our president. One could do worse than to decide on the character of politicians by examining their children."

My point is that you are condemning someone for a single utterance, not even an action. You made a lot of assumptions based on a few words. And I would argue that you can learn about the character of politicians by examining who they work with - hence the reference to Rahm. In fact, I think Obama's choice of Chief Of Staff shows more about him than some stupid thing Willow Palin did.

I was less upset with Rahm's choice of language than his habit of triangulating and selling out the left wing of the party, just as I'm more upset about Palin's politics than anything her children said. But Rahm's bullying attitude shows that crudeness and lack of respect knows no political stripe.

But keep up your fantasy that only "bad people" resort to bigotry.

What's your point.

Plus, most people here don't like him anyway.

Good for them, because at least they are consistent. I think both words are offensive, but ultimately just words. (Although as an adult, Rahm should know better).

First of all a lot of people don't like Rahm here. To me he's just a pol, nothing more, nothing less. But he was criticized here for using the word "retard" as was Barack Obama when he compared beating an easy opponent to winning the Special Olympics.

I think the whole "political correctness" thing is overblown. I think when people think of political correctness they think it of it as prohibiting the discussion "delicate" subjects. That's different than criticizing people for using epithets.

But my point is that people talking here about being bigoted and even being civil is a little rich because this entire site is full of people throwing vindictive at those they don't agree with. Case in point: when Ted Stevens died, I made the usual "series of tubes" jokes, until someone pointed out that he was the sponsor of Title IX, one of the most important pieces of legislation for gender equality. When I came on here, it was all "good riddance." Glass houses, people...

I am totally 100% serious that true homophobic bullying is a lot more than just calling someone the F word or gay. These poor kids killed themselves over a lot more than just being called a few names. It was constant threats of violence or public humiliation rather than just name-calling that drove these kids to suicide.

and "that's so gay" has become like "that's retarded" common parlance among teenagers.

I don't like it. but I'm not going to crucify a 16 year old for saying it, no matter how much I dislike her mother.

THere's a difference between excusing behaviour and offering appropriate correction. I would say to Miss Palin "that's not very appropriate language," not " you're a bigot and your mother is a horrible mother."

It was the fact she called her nemesis a "f----t" which has a lot more sting.

And , oh yeah, the use of the word "retarded" is a pejorative and patently offensive too.

- illegal in some states. I'm no fan of her mom but I think adults obsessing over the FB of a 16 year old is hateful and a bit creepy.

Actually he was working for the CCC out west. Amd my mom at fifteen was a full time bookkeeper supporting her widowed mother. My point is at sixteen a person is a young adult.

But neither were callinng people the f word, the k word, or the s word. I'm tempted to spell out the words because by using the first letter the sting is taken out of them,

Because you know exactly what your parents were saying back then.
So they were on their own, that's great for them. Still doesn't mean that every decision they made was perfectly mature and adult, nor would it be for any teenager.

In the fifty years I was privileged to know my mom she never made a bigoted remark in my presence. Ditto for my dad whom I only had the privilege of knowing for fourteen years as he passed away when I was fourteen.

Thanks for suggesting they might have been.

I am amazed at the mental gymnastics you are engaging in to defend hate speech. Congrats...

But even people who aren't bigots can use bigoted offensive words in the heat of passion. Is Rahm Emmanuel a bigot for using the "R-Word?"

I'm not defending "hate speech," any more than Lenny Bruce was defending hate speech when he used offensive terms. My point is that they are just words, not actions.

Willow is going to have to do some work on her social skills.
Maybe she should meet a boy and get knocked up like her older sister did.
Man, there's a role model for ya, Bristol.

But, then, what do you expect, Bristol's mother quit her elected job as a Governor of a state, and nosw spends her time running around making a complete fool of herself on tv every day, so it's not all Bristol's fault she wasn't raised at home with a better value system.
Willow has a lot to live up to, or down to, depending on your perspective.

i think there would be outrage.

and their example of a Mother have done that and probably worse.And no matter what derogatory term they use,just remember not to answer to it.

TOMBStone

You're absolutely right that our media and culture is making some kinds of bigotry ok and others not.

Take Juan Williams and all those people defending him making racist remarks about Muslims. Yet if he had said the same thing about say Jews, nobody would have stood with him. Same thing if almost anyone said said the same thing Juan Williams said about blacks.

and apologized or even said she had a talk with her daughter tells you all you need to know. Palin says it at home among other derogitory statements. Palin promotes this crap.

Either this child does not know what is acceptable because her parents haven't taught her or she is just like her mother and doesn't care who she hurts.

When I was 16 I was responsible enough to know what was acceptable and what was not.

"That's so gay," "you're so gay"... these are phrases that kids learn from each other.

I am not a fan of Palin, but the idea that she's going around telling her kids "watch out for the f*****s is ridiculous"

Why would a white child or black child be racist to another race? They didn't come out of the womb racist....Nature vs Nurture...

I would split the difference with you I think it's both but it is still the parents responsibiity to instill right and wrong in child.

But slang (which is what this is) is far more influenced by peers.

I seriously doubt Sarah Palin says "that's so gay."