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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 02:29 PM
Original message
Poll question: Remembering the golden pre-Obama era
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. gee...and to think we expected change...
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
2. K&R! VERY well done! nt
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populistdriven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. remember when we had an open government?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Remember
Edited on Sat Dec-04-10 04:05 PM by ProSense
when transparency meant transparency and not some asshole looking for 15 minutes of fame?

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populistdriven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. haha open government
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Your response is a photo?
:rofl:

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populistdriven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. yea
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namahage Donating Member (678 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-10 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #13
30. Remember when we used to be able to mock Freepers for their spelling
because, at least, we could spell words like "achievements" correctly?
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Kaleva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
3. LOL!
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Hassin Bin Sober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
4. I love 100% straw-based posts! mmmm yummy.
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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. I remember when Bill Clinton stood firm against the bigots
and made sure gays served openly in the military just like everyone else.
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I remember when Bill Clinton at least had the stones to admit it was his biggest
mistake as president (Rolling Stone, Dec. 28, 2000.)
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. "Rolling Stone, Dec. 28, 2000"
Maybe in another six years we'll find out what President Obama regrets. I know he's mentioned some of them already.

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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Biggest mistake? No.
Considering the promises that were made about DADT implementation to Clinton at the time, I'm sure it looked like a pretty good deal to him, and he had little way of knowing it would as wrong as it did.

That said, his biggest mistake was not exercising better damage control and more honesty about allowing an intern into his pants.
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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #9
23. +10000
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
19. Actually Bill Clinton came up with the first ever policy for removing gays for simply being gay
Before DADT "being gay" was not a reason to be discharged from the military.
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namahage Donating Member (678 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Not quite. See, for instance, DoD Directive 1332.14, from 1982:
http://dont.stanford.edu/regulations/regulation41.pdf

1. Basis
a. Homosexuality is incompatible with military service. The presence in the
military environment of persons who engage In homosexual conduct or who, by their
statements, demonstrate a propensity to engage in homosexual conduct, seriously
impairs the accomplishment of the military mission. The presence of such members
adversely affects the ability of the Military Services to maintain discipline, good order,
and morale; to foster mutual trust and confidence among servicemembers, to ensure
the integrity of the system of rank and command; to facilitate assignment and
worldwide deployment of servicemembers who frequently must live and work under
close conditions affording minimal privacy: to recruit and retain members of the Military
Services; to maintain the public acceptability of military service; and to prevent
breaches of security.
<...>
C. The basis for separation may include preservice, prior service, or current
service conduct or statements. A member shall be separated under this section if one
or more of the following approved findings is made:

(1) The member has engaged in, attempted to engage in, or solicited
another to engage in a homosexual act or acts unless there are approved further
findings that:
(a) Such conduct is a departure from the member’s usual and
customary behavior;
(b) Such conduct under all the circumstances is unlikely to recur;
(c) Such conduct was not accomplished by use of force,
coercion, or intimidation by the member during a period of military service;
(d) Under the particular circumstances of the case, the member’s
continued presence in the Service IS consistent with the interest of the Service in proper
discipline, good order, and morale; and
(e) The member does not desire to engage in or intend to
engage in homosexual acts.

(2) The member has stated that he or she is a homosexual or bisexual
unless there is a further finding that the member is not a homosexual or bisexual.

(3) The member has married or attempted to marry a person known
to be of the same biological sex (as evidenced by the external anatomy of the persons
involved) unless there are further findings that the member is not a homosexual or
bisexual and that the purpose of the marriage or attempt was the avoidance or
termination of military service.

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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Interesting; I didn't know about (2)
I thought you had to actually have sex with someone of the same sex and be caught doing it before DADT.
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TriMera Donating Member (885 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. No. I was kicked out in 1985 for being a lesbian.
I was caught up in a "witch hunt". All you needed was a rumor and it didn't need to be proven. The only thing that DADT changed was the paperwork at MEPs.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. I'm very sorry to hear that
Semper Fi from a Marine, or whatever is appropriate to the branch you were wrongly separated from :(
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TriMera Donating Member (885 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-10 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Thanks, Recursion.
It was the Army.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
7. Well done.
:toast:
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
10. Kicked and recommended. Well said.
I still find it kind of appalling that there are people here who think that the things that have been accomplished over the last two years should be thrown away because Obama didn't singlehandedly end capitalism and have all Republicans shot in the street.
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
11. The last prez. who wasn't basically either owned or an owner was Carter,
Edited on Sat Dec-04-10 03:27 PM by snot
and they destroyed him so thoroughly that even a lot of DU'er's look down their noses at him.

I.m.h.o., any "golden age"'s since then should more properly be called fools' paradises.
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VMI Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
12. A judge ruled that gays could serve openly several weeks ago.
Obama appealed that.
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Phx_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
14. Yep, those were the good ole days!
:sarcasm:
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
18. Who said there was a "golden pre-Obama era?" One of the main reasons...
Edited on Sat Dec-04-10 04:13 PM by polichick
...people are so upset is that this country was in such bad shape and change was desperately needed - Obama cast himself as the guy who was all about change.
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
21. Remember 'Change We Can Believe In?'
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great white snark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. I not only remember, I've been an active part of it the last two years.
:kick:
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-10 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
29. I DO remember when Democrats represented the Working Class.
*A Working Class Family could afford decent Health Care.

*I remember Job Security with benefits.

*I remember when a Blue Collar working American could retire in comfort and dignity.

*I remember going to college and graduating Debt Free.

*I remember when Mom & Pop could compete with Big Boxes and Factory Farms.

*I remember when America didn't have Private Prisons and armed Private Armies.

*I remember when Americans were "secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

*I remember when Corps got "To Big to Fail", they got busted up.

*I remember when International Trade Agreements protected the American Working Class.

*I remember when America produced MORE than we consumed.

*I remember THIS Democratic Party:
"In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

*The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

*The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

*The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

*The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

*The right of every family to a decent home;

*The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

*The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

*The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

Americas own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for all our citizens.

For unless there is security here at home there cannot be lasting peace in the world.--FDR

Those things are gone now.

---bvar22
Old enough to remember :cry:

"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone


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Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-10 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
31. I remember when Carter's foreign policy was based on human rights. n/t
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-10 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. I think it would be easy enough to identify some failures of the Carter administration in that arena
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AlabamaLibrul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-10 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
33. So he's changed nothing and is continuing the *gilded* pre-Obama era. Got it. n/t
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mikekohr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-10 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
34. We are Our Own Worst Enemies
Republicans have taken an unbroken 70 year record of economic "F" up, have delivered 9 of the last 10 recessions, ran up nearly all the of increase of the national debt since the end of WWII, crushed job creation, and still managed to win 9 of the last 15 elections for president and somehow managed not to become irrelevant as a political power.

As I read the many of the posts on this forum I don't know who's more to blame, them or us.

http://bureaucountydems.blogspot.com/p/economic-record.html
http://bureaucountydems.blogspot.com/p/history-of-recessions.html
http://bureaucountydems.blogspot.com/p/job-growth.html


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