Lieberman tweeted this about an hour ago:

"We have 60+ votes in support of repealing #DADT - it is vitally important to reach agreement on the right process to move forward."

http://twitter.com/JoeLieberman?from_source=onebox

As much as it pains me to ever, ever agree with that asshat... he's spot on.

I don't expect Obama to get any credit... I'm just waiting for DADT to be repealed, fully and completely amen, and the cry will go out in a nanosecond... "What took him so long! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!"

I'll gladly see this on the list of accomplishments during his term - and a campaign promise fulfilled.

People can deny him recognition, but the record will stand, and that's what matters.

he has my respect.

Why would he get credit if the Senate passes something? It's two separate entities, remember? Or at least that's what we're told when Congress doesn't pass something that Obama is said to be advocating.

Or is this like a cafeteria menu. Pick and choose what you want from a menu of accomplishments or failures?

"O.K. that was successful...so that was me. Yup, all me....I wooed that Senate like crazy....worked my magic on them..Hmmm...that failure over there was something people are mad about *shakes fist in the air* DAMN YOU OBSTRUCTIONIST SENATE!!!!Nope that wasn't me at all"

He will get the shit storm, regardless. Do you remember what he has done to this end? Any of it?

There has been plenty he could have done up until this point on DADT but he has chosen not to act (except to have is DOJ appeal any ruling declaring it unconstitutional). He chose not to, so that the Senate could take it up.

I'm not sure what shit storm he's going to get. He doesn't deserve the blame if it fails but if it passes he doesn't particularly deserve any high praise either.

He either has power over the Senate or he doesn't. That's my point. If he does have any power or influence over the Senate then he bears culpability for their failures as much as he does praise for their victories. But if he doesn't have any control over them (as we're told when they fail at something and "it isn't his fault") then he also doesn't deserve the credit and shouldn't have it added to those ridiculously padded lists of accomplishments.

It's one or the other, and people can't pick and choose.

I expect we'll learn after the fact. I'm not happy at the lack of messaging, but I'm even more unhappy in general at the party of NO.

The bile rises as I merely think and type this, but I think Lieberman is right. We need to get this done... now.

Will it work?

And everything he has done toward the outcome is already forgotten... until there are barbs to be thrown.

~

...men and women who have seen their careers destroyed by this institutionalized homophobia. Bones are for dogs. End DADT now.

I wondered if it would appease those one our side of the political spectrum, because we are such a hodge podge of interests. Ranging from gay rights to minority issues. Our strength is in our numbers, and I wondered if this move was meant to weaken the strength of our voice.

Right now, our strength is in our numbers. I'm wondering if this move will divide us, and weaken those numbers.

Now you're just wasting everyone's time.

You have my permission to look it up and find what I added. At first the sentence began, "Is their way..." And I edited to read, "Is this their way..."

You can't tell me they don't have a record of the edits. Just take a look.

And there's nothing that I have opined that is wasted. My point is very relevant.

He said he would, he wants this, and he keeps his word. If this fails tonight, I expect him to keep trying.

And please, issues of civil rights are NEVER mere bones. This kind of comment really belies the motives of a lot of people here.

But I do think it was timed because they feel the restlessness coming from our side.

I'm just wondering, will this now divide us? Or do we continue fighting?

Every negative about the administration is just who they are, every positive is a craven attempt to score points.

:eyes:

It's something you've been demanding he do since day one, and if this cloture motion passes tonight DADT goes away forever since no Congress will re-ban gays from serving in the military. It's something you've been wanting, and now it has a chance of happening. Why are you pissed?

On another thread I called it a porkchop. It's obviously very meaty, I just hope it doesn't appease, appease, appease the left's passion.

After all, we wouldn't want to upset them.

The timing is interesting. My original concern was that it would cool the passion to fight for all those other issues.

Funny how no one has answered the original question.

Will it work?

EXPECTED-they wanted it done after the "report" came back, which it did. The Repubs. said they'll do nothing until the tax stuff gets done. The Senate is VERY close to a deal on that. On to DADT repeal. And it will PASS IMO, if that's what you mean by "work."

No, that's not what I meant. You all haven't listened to one word.

Will the passage of this bill diminish the fire in your belly to continue pushing other progressive agenda items?

I've listened to every word. NO-the passage will NOT diminish the fire in my belly to continue pushing other progressive agenda items. But its NON-passage will not allow to get any other items passed.

Are you suggesting that this came about from some horse trading?

bill until the tax cuts got resolved.

Doing away with the jaded discrimatory practice of our US military.

True...perhaps it would also serve to reveal another positively progressive accomplishment of the Obama administration... and dispel the myth parroted by serial critics that he is "jest like Booooosh!1!".

What the fuck, people. I'm not questioning that it's a great win. I'm wondering if you all are a single issue progressive.

much less a "single issue progressive."

All I know about this issue, is I want DADT repealed in a big way. Fuck the labels and purity pissing contests. That does nobody any good.

We all want this. Obama wants this. Let's stand together until it happens. And celebrate together when it does!

I'm just wondering if you all will hang around for the rest of the race.

:shrug:

-Hoot

people may do something for you on _________________, but not be very helpful otherwise, unless someone powerful expresses a desire to see somethings happen. Why would "You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" be so surprising in this milieu?

for a long time. I know you can't understand that to be the case, but he really wants DADT repealed.

the troops have no problem with the repeal of DADT, 60+ votes in the Senate in support of repealing DADT, the latest and greatest surveys and studies show that repealing DADT would have NO ILL EFFECT on either the morale of the military, nor their readiness to do their jobs. So basically all we have are bona-fide homophobes objecting to the repeal of DADT. So please, do tell, what is this "right process" of which Lie-berman speaks?

meaning allowing enough time and debate to take place before the vote happens.

Skip the drama, skip the triangulation, skip the back-room battering and the oh-so-public dickering. Just do it. Take the vote. Repeal DADT. Do it NOW before the end of the year. Do it now.

an open amendment process.

So there are 60 votes if, not 60 votes now.

are met on the budget and tax bills.

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/132765-senate-postpones-qdont-askq-vote

They have 60 to vote for cloture, but Collins will only do that if the tax bill is voted on first - all 42 Republicans signed a pledge not to allow debate on anything until the tax bill is passed.

If we wait until next year, our chances of getting it passed in the house are slim. This is another reason Obama had to do the tax deal.

voting against his BFF McCain???

you would've seen Lieberman knocking down every argument McCain made AGAINST repeal.

But leave it to them to come up with a rider.

But it's highly unlikely that Joementum is seeking something in return for his support of DADT. The guy legitimately supports the issue.

He may be the most hawkish person to have had a "D" after his name in the last few decades and he was a total asshole for leaving the party when he lost the primary, but on social issues and domestic policy he can be a pretty reasonable fellow.

I'm sure if you track the man closely, you'll notice him doing something obnoxious and wrong in the next couple of weeks, but on this issue he's doing the right thing. It'd be pretty sweet if it passes.

coming from somewhere and he's definitely sitting at a nexus between the parties.

:dem:

That's what it said in the letter signed by all 42 Republicans. My fear is that debate among Democrats over the compromise will drag on holding up DADT, START and the Dream Act. Then next year when the Republicans have more votes they will be able to kill all of those things. I don't see either the Dream Act or DADT getting through the GOP controlled House.

And try to disappear about 90,000 posts.

on another thread, over 50% of DUers on that thread said it would be "too late" if DADT repeal got passed and signed into law.

The entire point of the pressure is to get the thing repealed, that is the goal. It is actually what Obama asked us to do. And now, we might get it done. And trust me, all who helped do it will be getting their props for that. That even includes Joe Leiberman who has long been after this goal. In general I can not stand him. If we get repeal, Joe and every other person who moved it to that repeal will hear my thanks.
Repeal will not buy a pass for anyone, but it sure as heck makes for a forward step that does not come with some horrible compromise. I suggest that all the noise that bothers you so is part of how that moment came to be a real potential.

I don't trust Joementum as far as I could throw him. I have this creepy gnawing feeling he may be just dragging this out. I hope I'm wrong on that. They need to get his done.

get Collins on board. But they're all trying-including Obama. I think you ARE wrong about Lieberman. He's VERY dedicated to passing repeal of DADT in this session.

I just keep picturing that assclown campaigning against the Democratic presidential candidate and admittedly that colors my perception of him.

I worry because there is SO MUCH this Congress needs to finish: Repeal of DADT, the DREAM act, the Defense Re-authorization bill, and ratification of the START treaty.

Tick tock.

And I have the same picture in my head. But he is VERY strong on this issue.

There IS a lot on the agenda, but it's during crunch time that most things usually get done.

the vote is tonight!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9725159&mesg_id=9725159

or maybe Thursday!
http://www.washingtonblade.com/2010/12/08/reid-holds-off-on-dont-ask-vote-until-thursday/

Aarrghh!

:hi:

I wish it were only the first link, but it looks like there's still hope.
:hi:

They still have to work on that START treaty being ratified.

START has a good chance of being ratified.

I guarantee it.

I guarantee it.

Is That Your Final Answer?

David Kurtz | December 8, 2010, 6:14PMSen.

Susan Collins lays out what she needs to allow DADT repeal to come to a vote. On its face, her demands can probably be met by Harry Reid without too much sweat. That's probably why Reid has now put off tonight's vote.

Now, you could argue that Reid just caved by putting off the vote, but I think that's the wrong read on this.

Collins has finally made her demands concrete and public. And they are not outrageous. At one point she wanted or was said to want two weeks of debate. Now she's asking for a manageable 4 days. Would we have gotten here anyway? Maybe. Did Reid's forcing the issue make the difference? Hard to say for sure, but probably.

This much is clear: the day started with DADT repeal looking completely dead and ends with a very plausible way forward to 60 votes in the Senate in this lame duck session. Not a done deal yet, but prospects for repeal are a whole lot better than they were 12 hours ago.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/12/is_that_your_final_answer_1.php?ref=fpblg


I don't know why people where saying DADT repeal was dead earlier today. I thought that was idiotic - and clearly not true but then people have been saying that crap all year.


Collins Hands Reid A Final Offer On Don't Ask, Don't Tell


Here's what Sen. Susan Collins (R-ME) told Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid that she needs to support a full Senate debate on the defense authorization bill (the vehicle for Don't Ask, Don't Tell repeal): 15 guaranteed votes on amendments (10 for Republicans, and 5 for Democrats), and somewhere around four days to debate the bill.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid already promised her the 15 amendments, but his initial offer was for a day or two of debate. Here's her response to reporters tonight, after a Senate vote.

"The majority leader's allotment of time for to debate those amendments was extremely short, so I have suggested doubling the amount of time, assuring that there would be votes, and making sure that the Republicans get to pick our own amendments as opposed to the Majority Leader."

"If he does that I will do all that I can to help him proceed to the bill. But if he does not do that, then I will not," she added.

Late this evening, per Collins' request, Reid delayed a test vote he'd planned to hold tonight.

"Everyone on the Republican side wants to see the tax package completed first," Collins said.

Collins reminded Reid that Republicans don't want to debate anything until the tax issue is resolved. "I have urged the majority leader to postpone the vote...so that we could get the tax bill considered first -- which I believe could be on the floor tomorrow -- and completed by Saturday, and then move immediately to the DOD bill, but under a fair agreement."

Though Reid has backpedaled somewhat, he still plans to hold a vote later this week. Collins warns that any test vote before the tax cut issue is resolved will fail, even if he agrees to her terms.

"If we're in the same situation that we are now, I don't see how I could vote for it. But I'm obviously going to think further. But frankly they won't get to 60 votes even if I did vote for it. So why not take the path that would lead to 60 votes"

Reid could meet her terms fairly easily, particularly if the Senate makes quick work of the tax compromise, which could be done this weekend. If that happens, the Senate could spend next week hashing out the defense bill and the funding of the government and be out by Christmas. Things, in other words, look much more promising for DADT repealers now than they did even earlier this week.

Keep in mind that this would cement her support for debating the bill. Presumably she'll withhold endorsing the actual legislation until after that debate is over.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/12/collins-hands-reid-a-final-offer-on-dont-ask-dont-tell.php?ref=fpa

:toast: