Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Bob Cesca: Why I can't oppose the (watered down) Senate bill

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » General Discussion: Presidency Donate to DU
 
jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:20 AM
Original message
Bob Cesca: Why I can't oppose the (watered down) Senate bill
The Big Difference

Matt Yglesias and Ezra Klein both touched on this, but I wanted to add my two cents here.

Admittedly, there were several hours last night during which I contemplated withdrawing my support for this bill. But here's the question of the day: Why won't (or why shouldn't) progressives stand in the way of passing this bill -- throwing conniption fits and filibustering the bill like Lieberman?

Possibly because we're smart and compassionate enough to realize that even a bill as watered down as this one will save lives. Hundreds of thousands of lives. Ezra mentioned 150,000 over 10 years on Countdown last night, but if you take the Harvard study as gospel, it's closer to 440,000. Maybe less. If it were just 100, it'd be too many.

This is why I still can't oppose this bill, however angry I might be about the way it's been handled and the perpetual screwing progressives have been forced to endure at the hands of the self-centered drama queens who like to think of themselves as principled tough-guys. They're not. They're elevating petty vengeance (Lieberman), special interest handouts and narrow-minded policy quibbles over saving lives -- real reform that would otherwise have brought down healthcare costs and helped Americans better afford the basic goal of life: NOT DYING.

Even with all of its flaws, we can't deny that this bill will be a first step towards ameliorating the healthcare crisis here. But contrary to what President Obama once said, he will absolutely not be the last American leader to address healthcare reform. Far, far from it. In order to reach basic social justice, where the poor and middle class have the same access to inexpensive quality medical care as the very rich do, it will require an ongoing effort. This is a work in progress.

http://www.bobcesca.com/blog-archives/2009/12/the_big_differe.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
1. Bullshit!
The fact is that this is EXACTLY when Progressives should get ugly and fight with all their might. Filibuster from the left. The whole Joe Lieberman vengeance angle is bullshit. It is misdirection at it's finest.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ineeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
2. Even if I have to hold my nose, I agree. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GarbagemanLB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
3. Get to the back, progressives! Your promised land is JUST around the corner! Just keep voting us in!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
4. The bill is so f'ing confusing it wont help anyone.
How is the guy who works over 40 hours a week at the car wash going to figure out what subsidy he's suppose to get? How is he going to know if the insurance corporations are overcharging him? If his hours are reduced and his wages go down, how is he going to know he's suppose to be paying less and how much less? Who is going to inform him? The insurance corporations?

When he's totally broke, how is he going to know that he wont have to pay a fine and go to jail? You know that's what the insurance corporations are going to tell him. They are going to tell him he'll go to jail and be fined if he doesn't continue to pay those huge premiums.

Corporations thrive on confusing legislation. It's their chance to con you and misinterpret the law so that you will pay them even more, out of fear of going to jail.

This happened in most states that required car insurance. People were paying huge premiums just to avoid jail. While not reporting accidents to avoid higher premiums. Some people still do it today.

The bill is nothing but a con to make the status quo look like change.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
5. the hell you can't oppose it..he buddy it is a dog and pony show..it is bullshit!!
and this meme will be shoved down your throat until you ..Mr and Mrs America believe this is the best you can get..

and it is nothing but the biggest giveaway and welfare the big Inusrance boys and Big Pharma boys could ever have gotten..it is a sell out of the American people..and it was planned and is being delivered to you on a silver platter..filled with feces and manure!

It is a scam..and you are the recipients of one of the worse scams in my lifetime..other than 9/11, and two wars and the Vietnam war scam!

Holy joe..is Obama's man.......

and he is delivering for Obama and Obama's secret deals with the boys that hold your health care in their hands!

Remember Joe Lieberman was Obama’s Mentor in the Senate

By: fflambeau Monday December 14, 2009 10:05 pm

Those who are up in arms over Sen. Joe Lieberman’s "veto" of the extension of Medicare should remember this. When Sen. Barack Obama arrived in Washington, D.C. in 2005, he selected as his mentor none other than: Joe Lieberman.

Here’s David Sirota writing about this, after discussing Obama’s stab in the back of the progressive Lamont in Connecticut and his stab in the back of the progressive Christine Cegelis (Obama backed Duckworth) way back in 2006:

http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/18929

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
6. Why should the time-squeeze work against progressives?
I say we actually force that curmudgeon to filibuster the bill. Make him talk until he expires. Then we can celebrate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
7. What utter horseshit. Written by another idiot who still thinks that insurance means care
You are forced to buy the shitty mandatory underinsurance, and you still die and go bankrupt for lack of care, because useless shitstain sociopathic intermediaries continue to dictate every interaction between you and your doctor.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
8. Will sick people be able to afford the co-payments? nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. NO. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
10. Help me out here. On balance, if the mandates stay in place....

(and I understand some here feel that's necessary in order for any reform to work at all), why is this not worse than what we have now?

I've been without insurance for 10 years (self-employed) and there is no way on Earth I can afford anything more than $100/month let alone be forced to do so at risk of breaking a law.

I'm far from alone.

How is this not worse for those of us who cannot afford to pay mandated insurance premiums?

I understand the INSURANCE REFORM aspects of this -- as that's really all it is and, granted, that is a step in the right direction, at least -- are positive in limiting pre-existing condition restrictions and other things for those currently with insurance or the means to afford it, but being mandated to pay into this current corrupt system as it is seems like a complete kick in the gut.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HopeOverFear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
11. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
12. I'm taking into consideration who
thinks this should be kept alive and all those who are calling bullshit.

The "bullshitters" always that about everything.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sun May 05th 2024, 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » General Discussion: Presidency Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC