The assault on the health care bill is not a defense of liberty. It is a defense of selfishness.

http://balkin.blogspot.com/2011/02/civic-republican-roots-of-individual.html

The Civic Republican Roots of the Individual Mandate
JB

As a protest against the individual mandate, several South Dakota legislators have introduced a bill requiring citizens to purchase a gun for self-defense.



The irony, of course, is that this is an example of what the federal government could require citizens to do at the founding. All able bodied male citizens were part of the militia, and therefore were required to bear arms in defense of the state. In fact, the federal government passed a militia act in 1792 that required that every citizen purchase a weapon and ammunition.

snip//

What is lost in the debate over the individual mandate is that the point of the individual mandate is also civic republican in nature. It requires citizens to make a far less significant but also public-spirited sacrifice on behalf of other Americans who cannot afford health insurance. Individuals must join health insurance risk pools to make health care affordable for more of their fellow citizens. This is a very modest request that individuals not be entirely selfish and that they contribute to the public good in a small way by helping to make health care accessible and affordable for all Americans. Indeed, under the terms of the Affordable Care Act, one doesn't even have to purchase insurance; one can simply pay a small tax instead. And one doesn't have to pay at all if one is too poor to do so or has a religious objection.

The notion that being asked to either buy health insurance and make health care accessible for one's fellow citizens--or to pay a small tax-- is a form of tyranny akin to George III's regime is simply bizarre: it shows how perverted and twisted public discourse has become in the United States. The assault on the individual mandate is really an assault on the public duty to assist other Americans in need, and in particular, an assault on the legal obligation to pay taxes to contribute to the general welfare. The assault on the health care bill is not a defense of liberty. It is a defense of selfishness.

don't attack it directly - use a passive agressive approach.

I kind of hope the bill passes. Then everyone has to buy guns - lol.

The GOP is pandering to its number one constituent, the corporation.

Let's not forget that the insurance companies were there, every day while the HCR bill was being written:

http://www.npr.org/news/specials/2009/hearing-pano/

So consider this "movement" and how it's putting pressure to make things go even more in their direction.

The point here is that they're getting us both ways, and the direction is always toward THEM.

Where's the push for single payer? Or a public option?

Democrats have given up and taken a "wait and see" stance (benefiting the healthco's). The Republicans are being pro-active, however.

Pushing shifts the debate. We shouldn't stop pushing on the left of this issue - public option, single payer, etc. Why aren't we still pushing for these things when the right hasn't stopped pushing?

Thankfully I haven't had a lot of health issues because I work out, etc., etc. - I've used my government health care to the very minimum...Now all of a sudden B/C premiums have gone up - along with my taxes....

...unless I'm misreading it.

I am about as lefty as they come, and I have no problem whatsoever with the notion of paying higher taxes to cover the costs of universal health care. Tax the shit out of me so that I and my fellow citizens will be able to enjoy the benefits of collective action. Do it.

I will not, however, be told that I have to give my money to a for-profit corporation under penalty of law, and then be told that I'm a selfish shit for not agreeing to that. Seriously, insurance pools can go fuck themselves if there are grey-suited grifters skimming profits off of that money without adding value. And particularly if after being forced to pay into those profit schemes, then being told that it will not cover something or other.

Take this corporate-written bullshit of a law, and repeal the fucking thing already.
Then... create a system for across the board, single payer healthcare for everybody.
And tax me for it.

tax me, I will gladly pay- but I will not have my money going to profits for health insurance companies...

make it a crime to profit from providing mandates products. This Obama concept is the first on Earth to demand that one citizen contribute to the profit of another. No other country does this.
The people who keep insisting that mandate and profit are the same thing are playing word games. I assume they are in the insurance game, or that they are affluent people with 'adult children' they wish to keep covered. The rest of us have no real reason to back this at all. I know people with pre-existing conditions, they can not afford to buy these products anyway. Help that is not help, designed with profit as job one. To me, it is amoral and corrupt as it can get.

First, most people already have insurance via their employers. Second, a significant number of the uninsured will qualify for subsidies because they're unemployed or low-income Americans. Third, people who do not qualify for employer health plans can purchase insurance through the exchanges, and it would have been no different with a public option. Fourth, the rates are going to go down, and anyone who doesn't want insurance doesn't have to purchase it.

There is no huge pool of uninsured people who don't want to buy insurance because it will be mandated. Most of the uninsured want insurance, but simply cannot afford it. The pool of people who will opt out of insurance will be very small by comparison.

Got it!

"First, most people already have insurance via their employers."
Which is just about the dumbest way of doing it, and keeps people chained to their desks EVEN WHEN THEY'RE SICK for fear of losing that coverage. This is the first thing that's gotta change.

"Second, a significant number of the uninsured will qualify for subsidies because they're unemployed or low-income Americans."
I'm all for helping people who can't afford healthcare to get the healthcare they need. Tax me for it. Just don't jack up my premiums to maintain current profitability and tell me you're doing me a favor.

"Third, people who do not qualify for employer health plans can purchase insurance through the exchanges, and it would have been no different with a public option."
There's that "purchase insurance" bit again. At what profit-margin going to people who add no value?

"Fourth, the rates are going to go down..."
Do you REALLY believe that shit?

"...and anyone who doesn't want insurance doesn't have to purchase it."
And pay a penalty?

Finally... "Most of the uninsured want insurance..."
NO NO NO NO!!!! Most of the uninsured want healthcare!

Someone needs to do a book like "A Year of Living Biblically" but for this nonsense.

I agree.

It seems their outrage would have nothing to do with the mandate. Paul Ryans 'Roadmap' wants to privatize Medicare and Social Security , creating a mandate to purchase private insurance.