When you agree with the teabaggers & other RWers that the bill should be killed...

you SHOULD realize you're on the wrong side of the argument.

Kinda Orwellian: Emmanuel Goldstein is coming!

If they oppose it and we oppose it, maybe that means it's a really crappy bill.

there will be no bill and it will be Obama's Waterloo.

The Republicans will vote against any legislation proposed by Democrats just to make the record .... except war funding of course.

However, the Leiberman Health Insurance Industry and Big Pharma Protection Act is a huge multi-trillion dollar handout to the health care industry.

It will be a success for the Dems. and an improvement in healthcare for hundreds of thousands of people. Even Alan Grayson says so.

nobody knows what will happen when a final bill is passed. That poster above doesn't know. I don't know. And, shocker, neither do you.

and I don't want it killed like the others who don't know what will be in the final bill want.

that DUers are going ape-shit over a final bill that's not really a final bill but may be but may not have a public option but may but may not be everything they want? SHOCKER DUers go crazy when the wind blows. I can't believe anyone takes this place seriously anymore. I come here for the entertainment. Well, there is still news to be learned here. But mainly for the entertainment, oh and to disagree with people and watch them go nuts because I don't agree with them.

That's what I'm telling you.

:rofl:

I am going to dust the cobwebs off my teabagger costume now.

I never said you're LIKE a teabagger, I said you (if you want the bill killed) want it killed like the teabaggers. I never said it's for the same reasons as theirs. And like you said, there isn't even a bill yet, but people want it killed.

did you stop to think that maybe Dr. Dean has some inside info.

Did you think he just ran on TV for attention and announced his take on it.

Dr. Dean is not a media whore like Senator Lieberman. He has been an advocate of real, meaningful reform for many, many years. He's done everything to compromise his principles and stay on board. As have I.

So, I'm not calling for a blanket killing of the bill. That would be stupid.

I'm saying, no PO, no price controls, with a mandate to buy private insurance : I certainly hope President Obama vetoes it. And I have some faith, he will.

but having some faith that Obama will veto this bill... :shrug:

those who are obstructing.

This is the biggest reform/legislation of our time!

Good.

Of course, I want a bill passed with a PO, price controls and no mandate to give more dollars to corporate entities that don't deliver when the need arrives.

Do I want a bill without one of these things....I'd have to see it, but I'd guess, not so much.

Never thought I'd be debating the likes of you so fervently.

This about people getting access to health care. I guess your family's plan is good. Congrats.

if this bill keeps the provision that people with pre-existing conditions can't be refused, my husband would be free to change his job if he wanted to, or if he lost his job, we wouldn't have to spend about $50,000 a year on prescriptions.

and there are no price controls, so the health insurance company can raise your premiums at will.

That's some reform, heh?

You would mandate that I have to go and use my limited income to pay for shitty Health Insurance Industry product, which I decided 10 years ago wasn't worth the money, if need be to cover your pre-existing condition?

Tell you what, get rid of the mandate... then I'm fine with the bill.

Otherwise... I vote that you also deal with life without insurance, before I am willing to vote that I be forced to buy insurance so that the insurance companies will have more income to help offset the costs of covering your pre-existing condition while their lawyers look for a new loophole to use to kick you off their expense sheets...

:)

(Ohh, and what makes you think your husband wouldn't have to spend the 50k a year on prescriptions if he lost his job? There won't be any non-employer based coverage... rather your husband will be forced to pay whatever the insurance companies say he has to pay in a private plan, if he were to lose his job.)

There are no cost controls here. With your condition you ARE NOT going to get a decent rate.

You are thinking of a previous version of this bill.

You've already been tossed overboard and you don't even realize it.

You are right, they would have to cover it - AT A RATE WHICH IS NOT LIMITED and at coverage under a set limit.

I believe that cancer is a bad thing.

Teabaggers believe that cancer is a bad thing.

Therefore I must be on the wrong side of the argument.

is "just." ;)

I tend to compare Obama to Bill Clinton.

because he's using the same FUCKING LIE (911911911terraterraterra) to stay in Afghanietnamistan that Chimpy used to invade that sorry assed country.

are upset about this bill, you SHOULD realize you're mind is closed.

you want everything you want or you want to kill the bill.

I don't want "everything".

You don't even know what you want, and will accept anything.

within reason, and as it is now, it IS within reason. It's better than nothing as Alan Grayson, Ron Wyden, Joan Walsh, and others agree.

Putting a dollar in the jar to get some kid a kidney is "better than nothing" too.

"Better Than Nothing" - now there's a campaign slogan I can get behind.

.... the next time they accuse me of agreeing with Sarah Palin (on Afghanistan.)

pick up what you're putting down before you even put it down? I said a similar thing above. :D

Or you're with Boehner and DeMent.

You see the flaw in your argument?

I do. But we don't really have a choice.

You can choose not to support these corrupt unnecessary wars.

If you see that guy, lemme know. I miss that feller.

I didn't realize DU had so many STUPID fucking peeps...

The teabaggers don't even know what they are against. They just don't like Obama.

This "reform" package, in the meantime, has been whittled away to nothing worth a bucket of warm spit.

HCR will never get passed in ANY form for at LEAST a generation. MANY people will suffer if this doesn't pass.

Oh my "at least a generation". You mean, like, as long as it's been since my first vote for Jimmy Carter?

Oh boy... That's a long time. People get old, like, over 40 and stuff.

who supports or is opposed to the bill.

the knuckle-dragging, anti-intellectual tea baggers because I don't want what looks to be a POS bill passed is downright BS.

Go look in the mirror, dear!

Is Dr. Dean a tea bagger now? Your comments are disturbing, very, very disturbing!

killed, you're on the wrong side of the argument. BTW, Sen. Harkin is for it, too, saying it can be built upon.

and he is nervous as hell -- it was obvious.

Built on, schmilt on. Were you cogent in 1993?

which is making his job harder. He doesn't really like the bill, but he likes it better than NOTHING, since it WILL help people and WILL be something that can be built on.

Nope-I wasn't politically cogent in 1993.

I post using my real name. Go to opensecrets.org and look up my donations.

Then go stuff it.

That money didn't come easy, and I gave it on the basis of what I had understood was going to be sought in earnest.

I donated a lot, too. We're not living on Easy St., either. Obama's doing the best he can with the Congress he has.

Wouldn't that be wonderful!!!!!

Don't call me a teabagger. Unlike you, I've seen this movie before. I know how it ends.

and if we DO pass it, it will be closer to what he originally wanted as time goes on.

How is it that this comes around "once in a generation" but can be improved as easy as pouring gravy?

I love when I am told that I am not this or not that because I don't agree. Been told I am not a Democrat many times. Gotta love that.

that was the kind of logic she would use. Now that she is older and in college, she's gotten much smarter.

I wasn't even speaking to you.

See, there's a little number where you can tell who I was replying to.

Christ people.

And I deleted because I posted in the wrong post and didn't want to let it stand saying that to you.

:)

;)

Joan Walsh has mentioned her fear of nihilism on the left regarding the healthcare reform effort--anger leading to the desire for destruction for its own sake. In my view the Senate bill as it stands represents a policy improvement, but way too weak to be worthy of a a Congress with large Democratic majorities. I think that a Yes vote is the proper thing policy-wise, and that should decide it, even though such a compromised bill will if anything decrease the Democratic congressional vote in 2010 by alienating some critical lefties.

I'm in politics for progressive beliefs, issues, solutions, not for the party or politicians.

Strike up a discussion with a friend who is casually interested in politics (he or she pays some attention to the news but is no junkie like us) but is aware of your political leanings. Tell him or her that you think we ought to kill the health care reform bill. Watch the reaction. It'll be like "say what?! Now YOU DONT want it?"