Can Obama critics be Obama supporters?

Or vice versa?

NGU.

Those who immediately glom on to the worst possible take on anything/everything he does? Not so much.

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Sid

...the criticism is valid?

Those who immediately glom on to the worst possible take on anything/everything he does is a much smaller population than those who immediately glom onto every critic, whether or not the criticism is valid. Why aren't you therefore more concerned about the latter than the former?

NGU.

I support Obama when I think he is correct, and criticize when I think he is wrong or hasn't gone far enough. I also know that he will never be what I want him to be, nor will any president ever be what I want in a president. And, I am totally okay with that. It doesn't mean I won't criticize when I think it is warranted. It also doesn't mean I won't vote for him when he is running against a repuke.

Thanks. :hi:

That's the operative word. Of course.

That's why I said "supporter." Same root word.

:eyes:

NGU.

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It's all in the definition.

And if I didn't, why did you feel compelled to do so?

NGU.

:shrug:

NGU.

:hi:

Anyhoo, I answered your question. And I added something to it, because there are some who, based on what I've read of them, go beyond "criticism". There are some who, for various reasons, just want him out of office, no matter what this administration has achieved.

Some have openly and repeatedly wished for a primary opponent - not, as Kucinich imagines, to urge the President to the Left, but to get him out of office.

Conversely, I'm hard-pressed to see anyone saying he can do no wrong or everything he's done has been a great move.

"...this administration has achieved."

Those are called trolls. Please don't associate critical supporters with "bashing."

NGU.

Why are you so fixated on labeling?

It's subjective. That's my point. I'm pretty sure you and I differ on where the line between "criticism" and "bashing" is drawn. So? Agree to disagree. Not everyone agrees with one's point of view. That would be a dull pod of peas.

:rofl:

I think somebody needs to "agree to disagree," but it's not me going around being disagreeable to Obama supporters - neither the critical nor the uncritical ones.

NGU.

Criticism doesn't equal hate. I just wish he'd stop bowing down to repubs and be more liberal.

+1

You said a mouthful, my friend!

Bake

that he could, actually, you know, uh, PASS LIBERAL LEGISLATION!!!!

NGU.

we just have to pay attention and criticize real mistakes or caves etc not just letting ourselves get sucked up in every piece of bullshit spin that comes down the pike.

again...the Democratic Party has NO ONE who will do much better, and anyone who believes that having a republican for our next president would somehow be a good thing obviously does not know much about the current republicans.
Obama is not great, IMO, but he is the best we will see for some time.

mark

However, if Obama is a lock in whatever state I'll be voting in on election day 2012, I might consider voting for a progressive third party candidate as a protest vote.

Remember back in 2000 Dem voters from bright blue states offered to vote for Nader in their state if Nader voters in places like Florida would vote for Gore? It's the same principle: to register a protest vote where the Dem candidate will win without a doubt, and get the protest votes out of swing states.

If Obama isn't a lock in the state where I might be living, he'll get my vote.

Of course, I'll support the Dem undercard like I always do.

...seem to be against Obama no matter what

"...right wing talking points or lazy M$M memes?"

Why do so many of the other Obama supporters on this thread give a similarly conditional response to this concept?

NGU.

:shrug:

NGU.

'the critics who use right wing talking points or lazy M$M memes' is not the same as affiliating critics with people "who use right wing talking points or lazy M$M memes.' If you want honest answers, start with an honest premise.

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NGU.

It clearly states 'critics who use right wing talking points.' There's no hidden message there. It was very straightforward.

If I were to respond to a similar thread about largely-unquestioning Obama supporters by saying...



...you'd be hitting the alert button faster than the speed of light.

But there's no hidden message there. Very straightforward.

:shrug:

NGU.

Now if you said DLC talking points, it would be a fair comparison. And no, I wouldn't. I'd actually read the statement. Does anyone actually say 'cheerleader talking points'?

:eyes:

Be sure to pick at words and phrases in my quick example to reassure yourself that it isn't.

NGU.

:eyes:

NGU.

It goes both ways.

Since RW talking points are used to bash Obama, then a supporter would not be using them.

until about October, 2012 - when they realize that a Palin/Bachman/Romney type really IS far worse, and really WOULD be horrible for the country.

Hate Obama all you want for 3 years and 10 months.. just don't stick your head so far up your own ass that you don't realize he's fr, far better then the alternative when it comes time to vote.

I'd like to hear your reasoning for voting "No."

NGU.

Republicons do. They hold together regardless of what they really believe. We disagree when we think our representatives are not doing what we elected them to do. The Republicons, strong arm their own into doing what they want and force their colleagues to tow the line, especially if it hurts the other side and stops the government from doing good things for the people.

If it helps the wealthy or corporations, well then, that's another story. They stand shoulder to shoulder and walk in lock step to make sure the rich, powerful and of course, they themselves, are well taken care of.

Like the recent tax giveaway to the rich of $800 Billion tacked onto the deficit for the 98%of us to pay. So now the Republicons have to find $800 Billion in deficit reduction and they walk in lock step with the help of some Dino's to cut money from programs that help the poor and middle class.

Give $800 Billion to the rich and powerful and cut $800 Billion from the poor and middle class.

What a bunch of backward thinking, thieving, Conniving, hypocritical dirt bag, nation destroying, pigs they all are. And on top of that, they want to destroy Unions. Who elected these people?

Most of them seem to suffer from one or more mental illnesses, so the patients are truly running the asylum. Think Beck, Limbaugh, Bachmann, King, Palin, Gohmert, Ensign, Walker, Kochs, Angle, O'donnell and on and on and on, and all the thousands of loons in positions of power in government, television, radio and business. Sick, Psycho people running the government, running television, radio, wall street and other areas that impact real people who are hurting. And they just don't care! So we must work in solidarity, to stop them. We have no other choice really.

Lou

:shrug:

And of course, neither of us has defined what we mean by "a lot."

NGU.

I'm sorry, I'm not finding the logic in that.

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Look at the instant and near-total bashing of anyone who criticizes the President. That's generating lots of heat between his critical and non-critical supporters here.

NGU.

At least they are if they have any sense, because it works. Divide and conquer. I can see how an uber critic would piss off Obama's supporters and make them direct some of their energy to the Left instead of the Right, taking some heat off of the Right Wing and putting some on the Left Wing, a win -win for them. And I can see how an uber supporter would drive those with legitimate criticisms (and yes, there are some) crazy, and make them feel that Obama supporters are just worshiping him and can't admit that there are some flaws there. The end result is division.

Hell, I hope we have people on our side using this tactic on the Right, because I have zero doubt they're doing it to us.

Infiltrate and weaken.

NGU.

...it's our job to hold him accountable.

For example, many of his critics conveniently ignore the following comments by "the prez":



Of course, Biden said it best here:

:hi:

Bake

It is also our job to give him positive support and credit too,
understanding that only criticizing his every action
only helps make people apathetic come voting time.

How many posts have I read advocating the primarying of this President,
as well as posts stating that folks will NOT work or donate to help
this President? So many until I rarely even read DU anymore, as it only shows
that folks are more obsessed with bringing down the President personally,
than they are about the real political alternative consequences to what they are advocating.

Examples here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=541389&mesg_id=541578

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=538953&mesg_id=538967

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=538487&mesg_id=538698

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=535882&mesg_id=535944

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=513273&mesg_id=513294

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=610542&mesg_id=610902


When one cuts off their nose to spite their face, they cannot than claim that
they should still have a nose, if it wasn't for everyone but themselves.

Look upthread to where I'm told that Obama supporters aren't lambasted on DU because they are Obama supporters. I kid you not.

...without even considering whether the criticism is valid?

:shrug:

I could post a heckuva lot more links than that to demonstrate the point. Heck, look at all the digs on this thread alone.

NGU.

and is mainly based on speculative, cherry picking, and unrealistic biased bullshit
that no, in my mind is NOT valid...
and at some point, it just gets tired.....as the point almost seems to be to help get Obama out of office, which is exactly the same goal the opposition has in mind.

NGU.

It ain't about can Obama be the perfect progressive, and if not,
let's shit on him every chance we can.....even if based on:

Out of context quotes (like for those who would turn a protest into
a strike, so they can call Obama a liar for stating that he would walk a
picket line, which there isn't one during this protest),

or speculative nothings (like when folks accuse Obama for weeks on end of "wanting" to dismantle Social Security, and when proven wrong, move to the next thing to accuse him of doing),

or selective memory (like when folks accuse Obama of not wanting to pass decent healthcare,
all the while they ignore the political realities of who in Congress would have voted for what),

or unrealistic expectations (like when they expected him to end the Afghanistani war yesterday,
when he ran on expanding it prior to bringing it to a close),

or just plain old name calling (weak/ineffective) like when he wanted to abolish DADT via Congress rather than through some temporary order,

or Calling him a Corporate Tool simply because of the unrealistic view that the President should kick Business' ass as though that will get them hiring,

or biased cherry picking (like when looking at Obama's budget and only seeing the worse in it, and not the rest),

Or I could go on and on.....

But of course, kicking him in his ass every day about whatever minutia is found in order to makes some folks feel better about the ugly state of our politics....and to rationalize their lack of supporting this President in any way at any time about just about everything.

:shrug:

NGU.

They CAN be conservatives too.

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Critical supporters of ANYONE are the best kind!

:headbang:
rocktivity

My best friends are the ones who challenge me.

:fistbump:

NGU.

written plenty of e-mails to the president and telling him how disappointed in the way he does things. I will still vote for him.

Almost all of them will end up holding their noses and vote for him if he's the only alternative choice.

The primaries could be interesting though.

Painfully-obvious "YES."

the fire!

I couldn't care less if people think I don't support the president.

...he's only following the President's orders. So apparently the unquestioning Obama supporters have the evidence.

:shrug:

Sorry, can't have it both ways.

NGU.

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I'm disappointed.

NGU.

Politics is not a zero sum game for those (most of us) who are not "one" issue folks.

In any event constructive critique is very useful.

are actively working to bring him down. The results of this poll are completely dishonest.

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over the results of a poll on a message board. It's really not that big of a deal.

But don't go by me, I'm not particularly keen on the man.

:shrug:

:shrug:

NGU.

to vote for him over Newt, or Mitt, or whomever they run.

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Welcome to DU! :hi: