Can Obama win reelection without Wisconsin?

Are there enough http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-penn/democrats-need-to-back-ob_b_795143.html">"upwardly mobile professionals making over $100,000 in income, especially young professionals" in Wisconsin who would pull the lever for Obama in 2012 to make up for the loss of many average working people who might not feel he's in their corner?

Even if the dems are disappointing, it is ALWAYS a lot worse to let a Republican be elected. I know it is not necessarily uplifting, but do you think WI would not be better off with a Democratic governor?

I thought the tape of the the Governor dirty dealing would have ruined him. It actually strengthened him and didn't put a dent into his intentions. After that...I determined that these set of voters don't care.

His numbers are not in the toilet. His favorable is still rather high--in the 40's still. They should be near the 30s or 20s if they were shit---especially after a blatant display and intention to destroy the unions. He's actually standing strong. Plus, these sorts of numbers should be reflected with other Governor's it's not. Christie for instance is still in the 45% favorable.

Post # 28 is a perfect example. Allow anyone to win if they are an alternative to Obama---which could be a substantial vote for the Democrat ticket which could help ensure a win and help Repubs lose. But they would, in effect waste the vote. But I say more power to them and they show ultimately the divide. There is no memory or understanding as to what is going on is important.

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Anyone that is dumb enough to sit home on their ass and not get out and vote, even if it's simply to keep the republicans from getting control, is crazy!

All people have to do is look at what happened in 2010, and if that isn't enough to motivate them to vote, then I really feel sorry for them. NOT VOTING is the same as voting for the republicans! I hate all the crap about NOT voting for Obama. Those who spread this BS are idiots!

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It's a toss up.

And never even voted! They "had" to send the president a message! Well look what that got us! Not voting is the same as voting for a republican. People need to grow up and face reality, not pout and cry because they everything they wanted was done by the president!

No vote, means voting republican and they got what they wanted. Many pushed the meme that Obama and Bush were no different and Dem/Repub are no different. There they go..the difference is apparent.

all that vinegar isn't helping either.....

It would be refreshing to see discussions about WHY that is the case that doesn't place all of the blame on the Demon Left.

I see many presumptions as to why, but no responses. If it's true that it's Obama that holds the key---then that is rather disgusting in and of itself and it actually still paints the people in a negative light.

Let's say people are angry that the change Obama promised was not delivered, or was not delivered to their satisfaction. So in retaliation they vote against their long standing Senators and Democrats who have been worthwhile n their state because of Obama. Obama doesn't run their State on a State level. They would rather take out people like Russ Feingold---who has looked out for them and supported them in retaliation against Obama? How does that work? So then this is spun as though Obama caused them to hate their own Senators who have been around long before Obama. But this would be a strawman, since what we should be looking at is that these voters were NOT looking at their own tickets but projecting Obama in place of the real candidates. It shows a lack of intellectuality to be honest which is more even more dangerous than expected.


However if the rally in August that Obama held where Feingold showed up and we were able to see a good few hundred thousand Wisconsin people show up---we see that everything that was sold as a bad thing by not only Republicans but fellow Democrats--especially on DU- like the HCR; was seen and loved by these people in Wisconsin. Even Feingold who I believe had originally voted against it--and distanced himself away from many Obama proposals, ended up running with it in a campaign for re-election and it happened to help his poll numbers a great deal.

Basically I never hold what the United States President is doing against my local representatives because my State politics and National political needs are very different. I personally have kept up to date as to what President Obama is or not doing. I think many have not.

What other things could have been a factor? Are they just tired and didn't want to come out to vote. It's rather a well known fact that many people don't vote in elections that are not the General Elections. They either don't know about said election date or candidates or have no interest if it's not the GE. Ultimately, this shows an even more lazy and careless citizenry.

Those who are disenchanted with the government decide not to vote. Well there is nothing to say to that. They got the elected official they couldn't be bothered to denounce because after all, "they're all the same".

What other reasons are there? And with the other reasons please give a motive. Ultimately I see a rather lazy or vengeful or both citizenry who need a class in making well-informed decisions.

It is impossible to generalize too much about why the 2010 election turned out as it it did. As many reasons as there are voters.

Part of it was historical forces beyond anyone's control. A defeat was probably inevitable. Whether a skunking of such mammoth proportions was also inevitable is debatable.

Traditionally in off year elections, the party that won in the previous presidential year suffers losses. Also, in 2010 the economy -- by everyone's account -- was really bad. And, when the economy is bad the party in power suffers in elections.

Beyond that, in an off year, there is less interest in voting. That's not necessarily a good thing, but it's human nature.And the members of the party out of power tend to be more motivated. The real partisans on both sides will turn out. But otherwise, it requires a rally good reason to goose turnout -- either great enthusiasm or great opposition to something specific. The tea party provided some of that stimulation.

Also, in an non-political sense, the economy had been so bad in 2008 that both Bush and Obama (Rs and Ds)were forced to take some drastic steps to save the economy from collapse. Bailing out a bunch of obscenely rich crooked investment bankers is bound to piss most people off (except wealthy investment bankers) of any ideology. Likewise taking overt an industry to save it is not going to be popular with many people.

That is not Obama's fault. It is a mess he inherited. But it was inevitable that it was going to have political consequences for Democrats because it was going into really uncharted territory.

However, not all of the factors were beyond control. After sweeping into power with a promiuse of "change you can beliueve in" what we got was more business as usual. Democratic leaders, including Obama, failed to truly engage in the fight the GOP was pursuing on many levels.

In less than two years, the GOP Right Wing went from being a disgraced and an almost irrelevant minority to a position of power of being able to drive the agenda and controlling the political messages.

There were many many examples of that, but not time or space to recount them here.

But suffice it to say the end result was that many swing voters went to the GOP, and many Democrats/liberals/progressives felt demoralized, ignored and cynical....So did many who were less partisan or ideological, but had been roused by the plrospect of at least the beginning of positive change.

Not voting was not a smart option. Nor was it smart for anyone in the working and middle class to vote GOP.

But rather than blame them, it would be a lot more useful to actually look at WHY they became so unenthusiastic and demoralized and actually start to take steps to change the reasons for that malaise.

Nobody's going to vote for the Repigs who did this to them.

But way to try and spin this into another Anti-Obama opportunity.

While just enough Wisconsin Democrats will go to the polls for Obama in 2012?

What just happened in 2010?

Wisconsin will go blue in a big way in 2012.
Step aside from your agenda for a moment and consider the actual facts at hand.

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You've bought into a gigantic load of bullshit with that "WallStreet Obama" bit.

Ask yourself, do you actually have facts to back up that claim?

or are you letting someone else reach conclusions for you?

In Wisconsin Obama’s Approval Soars as Scott Walker Plummets


That answer your question?

He hasn't put on his comfortable shoes yet!! How can they like him if he isn't spending 24/7 in Madison?

"the loss of many average working people who might not feel he's in their corner?"

I think the working people of wisconsin know who the villains are in this scenario - Scott Walker, The Republicans in Congress, The interfering Koch Brothers and Karl Rove's American Crossroads Billionaire Crowd.

Those "many average working people who might not feel he's in their corner" will nonetheless be voting for a ficus tree if that's the Democratic nominee, because they've seen what Scott Walker (Republican) and the Legislature (Republicans) and the Supreme Court (4-3 Republican) have done.

Barring something cataclysmic (which is the standard caveat in any election--and "meh, this guy hasn't done much" is very different from a cataclysm), Wisconsin will be blue in 2012. There will not be the voter apathy here that there was in 2010.

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i would be mystified if Obama didn't win WI., EVEN if Walker didn't pull this charade, now WI. should be in the catagory of a CA, NY, HI, etc after Walker's stunt..

So WTF are you talking about?? UNREC!! Just more unfounded Obama bashing!! This is getting really old!

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I have been a conmsistant Democratic voter since the late 1960's, and I have been very critical of those who did not vote...but they lost me with this bullshit.
Looking for an alternative that actually represents ME.


Mark
Retired AFSCME steward

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Is a safe Obama state In 2012.After this stunt Rebulican state senators are going to be recalled.Walker himself could be recalled
In 2012.

He will carry WI by 20+ points, they have seen 1st hand what happens with a rethug in charge

:D

:rofl:

that's how it is for some people, isn't it?

who just took their rights away? Obama didn't do that

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But the question is can he win without Wisconsin, Michigan or Ohio which is the core set the Pukes are targeting. To that the answer is no. I do not understand why he is giving them such a free hand.

L-

:eyes:

If the antics of the likes of Walker and our Ohio Kasich don't help to draw enough of a distinction for some on the difference between the two parties and give people a smack in the face reason for voting... I really don't know what does.

You'll probably have better luck with another state. Wisconsin's going to be blue for quite awhile.