Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Oliver Willis: Kill The Bill! Save The Bill!

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » General Discussion: Presidency Donate to DU
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 05:17 PM
Original message
Oliver Willis: Kill The Bill! Save The Bill!
http://www.oliverwillis.com/2009/12/17/kill-the-bill-save-the-bill/

Kill The Bill! Save The Bill!
December 17th, 2009


Where I am:

I don’t like that the public option is out. Not even the weak versions like the trigger, the opt-out, and the Medicare buy-in. That sucks, and Hell has reaffirmed the special place they have had on reserve for Joe Lieberman.

I also don’t think President Obama inserted himself in this debate enough. As I stated before, I think they strayed too far away from the Clinton model of being too involved in the crafting of this legislation. The strategic mistake of leaving Harry Reid in charge of anything will be remembered for history to record. In the midst of this most important legislation, Reid proved once again that he’s no Lyndon Johnson. He’ll go down in history as one of the weakest minority/majority leaders and frankly I hope he isn’t re-elected.

On the President personally, I reject the conspiracy theories that he’s a tool of corporate interests as the facts don’t bear that out, nor was I ever of the belief that he was uber-progressive. Barack Obama is on the cautious, deliberative center-left. That’s where he’s always been.

In an ideal world, this point in the debate would have been reached in August. But we live in the real world, and that’s why I think for all the good that isn’t in this bill, it should be passed anyway. We needed to get to the end zone, where we are is about on our own 44 yard line. “You play to win the game.”

On the course of this debate I’ve come to hate the U.S. Senate and if we played under the rules as they are used today, I would still be waiting for civil rights legislation to pass. But that’s also why I think the argument about scrapping the bill isn’t realistic. The best hope at getting something on the books is for the current bill to be passed before Christmas. Either that happens or I believe, health care reform goes on ice for another decade. Congress won’t be passing anything this controversial next year, an election year (if the Democrats are smart, they’ll be passing bills called “The Jobs For America Act” and “Employ An American Now Act”, etc.). Any law pushed after that will be a setup for the 2012 election, and so on. I doubt health care will come up again in this major a format until the post-presidential election.

The bill is what it is. The design and the mandates aren’t pretty (though I think Ezra Klein makes a decent pro-mandate case here), but I think it gives a framework for future, needed modifications. And sure, in the unlikely event Republicans take control of congress, they could dismantle it, but my guess is enough people get on board, that is as likely to happen as the elimination of Medicare or the privatization of social security – both conservative daydreams.

I favor passage.

I think ripping up the bill gives the teabaggers and the GOP what they want, and helps to feed into the growing Fox News narrative of Democratic indifference.

For this of course, I am an Obamabot Broderite Centrist. Despite everything I’ve ever written for the last 10 years, but so what?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Broderite centrist = stupid winger. I think his arguments are reasoned, but I disagree.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. That's why people have opinions. I imagine you're not the only one
Edited on Thu Dec-17-09 05:22 PM by babylonsister
who disagrees. :spray:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Undercurrent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. I favor passage too.
K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
angee_is_mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
4. Isn't Oliver a Black progressive?
Just asking.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Yes. And who cares? He's right when he's right. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
angee_is_mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. It shouldn't
but as I have stated in an earlier post, if you go on the Afrosphere the posts are like night and day from what is on here.

I can honestly say, I haven't seen one post out there (the ones I visit)asking for a primary challenger in 2012.Some on my DU friends have been taking a break off of here and are just going on the Afrosphere because things are so crazy on here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. As a white 53yr. old woman, maybe I should go there.
DU is discouraging lately. I want to celebrate our President while pointing out his differences and gripes.

That used to be the DU I knew; the overwhelming vitriol, I cannot connect with.

After 8 years of idiot son, I'm just amazed and disheartened.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
angee_is_mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I feel you sista
i feel you and you would be welcomed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. It is discouraging
I had to take a break yesterday - it was just too much for me - I couldn't hide the hate fast enough.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
9. I like the way Oliver Willis puts this..
"I don’t like that the public option is out. Not even the weak versions like the trigger, the opt-out, and the Medicare buy-in. That sucks, and Hell has reaffirmed the special place they have had on reserve for Joe Lieberman."

Oliver alludes that he's not really a centrist at all.

Besides, how else can they make the Bill better in the Senate with slime like lieberman strutting around? Isn't it possible to pass it and then work on it in Conference with the House Bill?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kdillard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 05:11 AM
Response to Original message
11. Kick and rec.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
soapystern Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 05:40 AM
Response to Original message
12. i vote
kill the bill
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri May 03rd 2024, 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » General Discussion: Presidency Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC