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Dean Baker on the mandate: "The industry wants the government to force you to pay them money"

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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 07:28 PM
Original message
Dean Baker on the mandate: "The industry wants the government to force you to pay them money"

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/12/17/insurance_mandates_what_about_president_obamas_cam/?ref=c1

...everyone should clearly understand where the mandates come from. They are put there at the insistence of the insurance industry. The industry wants the government to force you to pay them money and they have enough pull in Congress to get their way.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. "To be clear, there is a real logic to a mandate...
To be clear, there is a real logic to a mandate. If we prevent insurers from turning people down based on pre-existing conditions or even charging them higher rates, then there will be an enormous incentive for healthy people to remain uninsured. They could avoid paying for insurance until they actually develop a health problem that requires costly care. Then they could buy into the system and leave the insurers with a big bill.

In this scenario, the insurance market quickly breaks down. Only the very sick ever sign up for insurance, costing the industry much more than they collect in premiums. This is the reason for the mandate. It prevents this process of adverse selection where only the sickest actually get insurance.


That's before the "but," which isn't a real but. He's basically saying a mandate will eventually be needed.

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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. It;'s all about protecting the insurance industry
A mandate (with payments based on income) would make sense for a government run public program based on providing service and not reaping obscene profits.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. "(Obama's earlier) argument (against the mandate) made sense back then and it makes sense today"
You apparently missed that part of Baker's article.
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. We can try to solve homelessness by mandating everybody to buy a house....
"I mean, if a mandate was the solution, we can try that to solve homelessness by mandating everybody to buy a house. The reason they don’t buy a house is they don’t have the money. "

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoSnqofelsQ
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. "why should progressives want to do the bidding of the insurance industry? "
Everyone knows that we will have to come back to address many issues in the health care system. We can leave the mandate for another day. This would just be going back to President Obama's position in the primaries. His argument made sense back then and it makes sense today.

It may not be possible to get a bill through Congress without the mandates, but everyone should clearly understand where the mandates come from. They are put there at the insistence of the insurance industry. The industry wants the government to force you to pay them money and they have enough pull in Congress to get their way.


The administration's complicity in this- at the expense of just about everything else that was structurally worthwhile in the bill is what everyone's hopping mad about.

Indeed- if this were a Republican bill- most everyone here would be hollering for a filibuster (and the same suspects would be crossing over to support Republicans).
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
14. There is no logic to a mandate that does not guarnatee CARE, period
Forcing people to buy useless underinsurance to useless non-producers who decide whether to pay for actual care on a whim, and after they have put you through their paperwork hell.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. Really, aren't we already forced to pay them money, most of us?
It's our money or our lives, as it is. Some people don't, but most of them aren't doing it to be mavericky anti-corporatists.
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Exactly.
The legions of healthy young people with gobs of excess cash who are uninsured by choice are largely mythical.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
15. That ought to be considered a problem to be fixed, not to be made worse n/t
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. There's no getting out of paying money. Either to Uncle Sam, or BCBS.
It's just a matter of how big a chunk it takes out of your income. I'd rather cut out the middleman and have it taken by taxes, because that would be the most cost-effective, but that's not the system we have now (except for the elderly, poor, disabled, and military).
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. I know. The point is to get rid of the shitty system
If it kills and bankrupts people now, anyone who says "it's just the system we have now" is simply advocating more of the same. Except now we have to live in poverty before the inevitable.
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. k&r for the truth, however depressing. n/t
:dem:

-Laelth
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
4. The GOP speaks for them, works for them, and plots/scams for them assholes
Excessive profits is not good for Society in General...
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Garam_Masala Donating Member (711 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. I thought we have 60 senators?
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. A few are anti advancement and vote stagnation...enough to sway shit THEIR WAY
Our numbers are corrupted by Pub Molls and Trolls driven by mega monies protecting self interest..they are ALL IN on this one...

Like a spoiled kid, the GOP DEMAND THEIR SAY AND WAY.... period.

Tantrums follow with excuses to be MAD....
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Mojambo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
5. In the entire process there's never even been a hint of compromise on the mandate.
That should give a very clear idea of just who is really running this show.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. And the mandates are rarely mentioned by the Democrats when the ...
summarize the important points.

:puke:



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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
18. kick n/t
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
19. The insurance companies are against it because they are mandated
to take people they didn't want to take.



:tinfoilhat:
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