I don't like this deal at all, but don't feel the President/Dems had any choice at this point

It's impossible to come out on top when dealing with people who are controlled by a handful of people who are crazy enough to blow up the economy.

This is not a classic case of refusing to blink first. The President and Democratic and Republican leadership were trying to diffuse a ticking timebomb and were dealing with a group of people who really don't care whether the bomb goes off. But letting the bomb go off was not an option, period. So that ensured that we weren't going to get much, if anything, out of this - except the bomb not going off.

This is extremely frustrating - and I fear that the Tea Party has created a new method of political negotiating.

But I don't believe the President and Dems "caved" and I really can't see what they could have realistically done differently - realistically being the operative term.

Whether they are in power (majority) or out of it, the GOp always gets its way.

Whether we are in power or out of it, Democrats never get our way.

Odd how that works.

The "deal" is signed right now, but the battle will still be waged over the next 18 months.

It's a bad deal right now, but the ultimate verdict isn't in yet.

... and hapless Democrats.

They had no choice?

No default.

No slashes to Medicare, did not touch SS, and Medicaid is still intact!

The Bush tax cuts are being left untouched, meaning they WILL expire December 31, 2012!

And there is NO Balanced Budget Amendment stipulation in the new agreement :)

mean they won't be extended in 2012? -- You really think Obama will have the spine not to push for them in an election year?

make the millionaires and billionaires pay their fair share.

So, I do not see Obama ever agreeing to extend the Bush tax cuts.

The tax cuts expire December 31, 2012 which is AFTER the election.

He will win re-elect in and the tax cuts WILL expire.

But THIS time will be different? :shrug:

Hey, maybe he can use THAT for a Campaign Slogan.

THIS time, it will be different!

Since they really didn't, I agree with you on the "cave" business.

The Dems are the Republicans now.

It is the same thing. They are making terrorists demands to destroy our economy. And we are supposed to agree with their demands?

The more apt analogy would be if terrorists threatened to nuke NYC unless we cut $10 billion from the city's budget by closing all of the schools in Harlem, firing all of the street cleaners and shutting down the subway system 3 days a week - and it was clear that they really were ready, willing and able to carry out their threat and had no incentive NOT to do it.

If we came out with a deal in which they agreed not to nuke the city in return for a process that would result in $5 billion in cuts through various means that could include closing some schools, firing some street cleaners and reducing subway service, but could also include getting rid of limousine subsidies, eliminating private airports and increasing taxes on the wealthiest residents that could take some of the burden off of the schools, workers and subways, that could be seen as the best possible bargain under the circumstances.

They really don't CARE if the blow up the economy.. and take the whole country down with it. Their "RELIGION" is Patriotism.. and they have no problem sacrificing their own financial safety net as well as the safety nets of others if it furthers their "CAUSE".

It's really not much different then Osama Bin Laden.. they're a cult.. and they hide amoungst civilians. Makes me sick.

So it is not very reasonable to expect the kind of result we would get if we were negotiating on an even playing field.

The debt ceiling should have been part of what the republicans had to concede in order to renew the Bush tax cuts, as it provides a source of funds necessary to run the government.

Obama does NOT want to renew the Bush tax cuts.
If anything the GOP would have held the deficit ceiling hostage to get the Bush tax cuts 'extended' - and the GOP did not do that.
The tax cuts for the millionaires and billionaires have to GO - so that we will have more revenue.

"When asked why he didn’t, he replied that he was sure that Republicans would act responsibly. Great call."
- Paul Krugman, http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/01/opinion/the-president-surrenders-on-debt-ceiling.html

PLease.

Obama put Medicare and SS cuts on the table, not the Republicans.

So all this, he had no choice but to do this to get the ceiling raised is a bunch of bullshit.

That's good enough for me.

and no one is telling us that. And don't cite the white house "fact sheet" to me either - that is full of flowerly language without actual numbers that mean anything.