Even the most doubtful Obama critic has to think this bill, as proposed, is not too bad!

I have been extremely doubtful in the last week I will admit.

I am pissed there are no tax increases in this, but they are possible before the 12/31 deadline if we push them.

I am shocked it looks this good. Much better than any Obama critic could have projected.

Overall I think we did OK!

That's a big fat $35 billion target as far as the thugs are concerned. Give the Prez some credit for that.

Judging from past performance as any good horse player will I'll give you 20-1 on this actually happening. Regardless of what Obama wants most Congressional Democrats will fold like cheap card tables in the face of 30 minute spots saying they raised taxes. Actually 20-1 is too generous, it's more like 50-1.

No default.

Cuts to the Defense Budget.

Did not touch Social Security. Medicare and Medicaid are still intact!

The Bush tax cuts are being left untouched, meaning they WILL expire December 31, 2012!

And there is NO Balanced Budget Amendment stipulation in the new agreement :)

And we still have a chance.

I wonder what if anything would change my mind.

nt

I may jump on the caboose if the train isn't moving too fast.

I'm pleasantly surprised myself at how good this deal is for Dems. Just wait till the dust settles. GOP has been rolled. Watch.

Some people mistake not getting everything for getting nothing.

This deal is likely going to pass in the Senate, not sure about the House. Still, it's been so demonized it will not matter. It will continue to be demonized up until the final vote. It will be fodder for the "Obama caved" meme for many months to come.

Facts no longer matter.

We just have to wait a year and a half for that. In fact, it will make for good campaign fodder.

bill currently in the House for the specific purpose of closing loopholes, totally apart from the debt ceiling deal. I know of that one, because my own Congressman introduced it. Because there is nothing in this deal, doesn't mean it can't be done apart from it. We shall see. Unlikely to pass, but no reason not to try.

attractive aspects.

I am confident that the President can deal with both.

It matters to most of the Liberals and Democrats. You're becoming a victim of this place. Time for a vacation. :hi:

:rofl:

Any piece of legislation or proposal having to do with the budget MUST originate in the House. If that chamber is dominated by a bunch of crazy, dumb-ass Teabaggers, the fact that we got this deal is a WIN for us!!!

And if the CPC proves as short-sighted and ideologically chained as the TPC, they can both vote against it and kill it.

But the moronic thing to do was accept that there needed to be a deal to begin with.

We get potential revenue in 2012 (maybe before, who knows), defense cuts, less domestic cuts than previously proposed, and entitlements safe for now. I'll certainly take it. It's far from a perfect deal, and I'm still not sure why this is even going on in the first place, but I'll take it.

you know you got handed a shit sandwich.

You think you're going to get anything more reasonable from a GOP-controlled House with that faction of extremists in there calling the shots?

Seriously?

Explain how.

Explain who can "handle" them.

But I cannot do it without the president. I feel on my own out here fighting for any kind of justice.

I think people's notions of LBJ-style strong-arming are pretty misguided if they think that's all you need to do to whoop these extremists into shape and make them vote like sane, responsible Americans.

The president abandoned us in the lead up to 2010. He got the house he won.

As to the other... The HC debate absolutely blows your argument out of the water. When he set out the bill he wanted, he got it passed over all objections. Same thing will happen now with this debate. the president will ram his compromise through, and prove once again that when he so chooses, he has the power to pass things.

less than terminal is nothing to spit at.

This WORLD is sick, not just the US. We've got massive problems, pretending they don't exist, or that they can all be fixed overnight is foolishness.

It's also self-destructive.

At this point, I do not see this bringing us a majority in the senate or house come the next election. Which means the next round will get worse, not better.

have it and voice it.

My reply addressed your comment about when a defense of something is that it's 'not so bad' as the alternative then you know it was a "shit sandwich".

I don't agree with you. It's pretty clear that this country is in a bad place and has been for the last several years. It's been particularly bad since 2000. The fact that we won the Presidency in 08 didn't mean that everything was going to be better. It only meant that the republicans would not have 'free-rein. There is an angry, very vocal, monied, and powerful opposition working to make sure that we not only don't succeed, but that we fail completely. My state lost it's 2 Dem/Progressive Congresspeople to the republicans. We also replaced Gregg with Ayotte, a tea-party fool. Our state house, and state senate lost Dem's by the score.

So, to say that our 'cancer' is treatable is a hell of alot better than saying it's inoperable and we have no hope of ever having a remission.

It's up to us to work to keep the republicans, especially the tea-party ones from being elected, and/or re-elected.

And touching the third rail while doing it is not the way to win elections.

Only time will tell. I believe this just handed the Repub's the senate in 2012. I think the presidency is a 50/50 grab as to whether Obama can keep it. The house could go any which way.

I cannot fight a president of my own party to get him elected. If he throws it away, I cannot fix it. The power differential is too great. I am feeling it may be time to move on.

Even if that something is made up out of whole cloth or completely exaggerated.