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Has anyone compared President Obama's April 13, 2011 Deficit Reduction Framework to tonight's deal?

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Tx4obama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 11:49 PM
Original message
Has anyone compared President Obama's April 13, 2011 Deficit Reduction Framework to tonight's deal?
Edited on Sun Jul-31-11 11:51 PM by Tx4obama

Does everyone remember that President Obama released a Deficit Reduction Framework Plan April 13, 2011?
I think that tonight we got some of the cuts that Obama wanted!

April 13, 2011
FACT SHEET: The President's Framework for Shared Prosperity and Shared Fiscal Responsibility
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/04/13/fact-sheet-presidents-framework-shared-prosperity-and-shared-fiscal-resp

July 31, 2011
Fact Sheet: Bipartisan Debt Deal - A Win for the Economy and Budget Discipline
http://www.whitehouse.gov/fact-sheet-victory-bipartisan-compromise-economy-american-people

Has anyone compared the details (regarding the cuts) in the two Fact Sheets yet?


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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
1. Considering that April 13 factsheet uses 12 years numbers, so far everything is matching up.
Was DU in a crisis mode when Obama announced the original fact sheet in April?
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LaydeeBug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #1
20. When we brought it up, they screamed "LET IT SINK", and then we were bullied
so "LET IT STINK" now is all I can say.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
2. OK, they match except Obama didn't get prescription limiting and failed the taxloopholes, plus...
Edited on Mon Aug-01-11 01:00 AM by joshcryer
...the stupid ass "Gang of 12" that he'll now have to posture with. However, since they're splitting social programs with defense, that should basically be a stalemate. edit, on further reading, it will likely wind up implementing the plans for the Affordable Care Act that save money in health care in general, including possibly limits on prescription drugs, depending on what idiot teabaggers wind up in the Gang of 12. Hopefully an advocate for seniors winds up on there with a 2012 election bid coming up, he'll be screwed and be forced to go along.


Since the crisis is over we can go into election mode and just ignore whatever stupid shit the Republicans come up with.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #2
15. I should backpeddle a lot after doing the numbers. It appears that they got about 50%.
Health Care is still going to be held hostage by the commission. I personally cannot see how the Republicans are going to be able to avoid doing the April 13 measures, though. It's only a few billion a year from different aspects of Health care which adds up. I thought it was going to be the Prescription aspect but I clearly messed that comparison up.

I still classify it as a win though because it boxes the Republicans in. They will not allow defense spending to be cut.
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
3. ...or compared it to the Ryan Plan the repugs were lined up behind?
I think, if you look at the two, the other side got next to nothing, and the president got close to what he wanted. Somewhere lost in all the hoopla and spin a well-played and favorable compromise got done - to the president's credit again.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Heh, no one cares. And frankly, maybe it's better that way. The vote hasn't happened yet.
I'm beginning to think we should let Obama bashers falsely claim he lost when he got almost everything. Seriously, compare them.

The tax loopholes are a big deal, but they weren't realistic anyway, Obama probably knew that. He put it out there for campaign fodder. The prescription drug limits also were unrealistic (no health care strengthening was going to be feasible with a GOP House), but if the "Gang of 12" commission is properly set up it could force the hand of them.
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Tx4obama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. self-delete. n/t
Edited on Mon Aug-01-11 01:35 AM by Tx4obama


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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I am aware, reread what I wrote, I was merely expounding.
Edited on Mon Aug-01-11 01:37 AM by joshcryer
bhikkhu has been a consistent and reasonable supporter of Obama and I did not intend to suggest that I was disagreeing with them!

When I said "no one cares" I was saying that no one cares that the Ryan Plan is actually way way crazy. (Though I might disagree that the Ryan Plan was even remotely capable of going anywhere and that the comparison is not necessary, just compare what Obama said and what he did!) Also, that no one cares that Obama actually won this one, they're too caught up in their bashing to actually look at what's going on. *sigh* It's the primaries all over again.

Only I'm defending Obama. :rofl:

edit: I see you caught what I was saying, but I already typed this and I don't want to delete it! :P

To expound a tiny bit further, since I'm in the mood. The reason I said "maybe it's better that no one cares" is because it hasn't been voted on and if the Republicans figured out that they lost everything they'd freak out and not vote for it! :)
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Tx4obama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. I think I was the one that read 'your' comment wrong ;( My bad.
I saw that "no one cares" and the basher part and jumped to conclusions :)
Sorry.

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Tx4obama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Yeah, I was thinking about that too earlier.
Edited on Mon Aug-01-11 01:44 AM by Tx4obama

I was going to do some tweeting about the fact that Obama got the cuts that he wanted, but decided not to in case the GOPers saw it.
I think we should just hope that the bill will pass and get signed before the GOP realizes that they've been hoodwinked/bamboozled :)

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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. If it passes I would bet money that Obama gets everything *except* loophole closures.
Seriously, the Commission will be veto-able from now until the elections, it will be a niche player and it will only pass whatever Obama wants it to pass. Since it will split the defense budget (a smart move, that one), with social spending, any idiotic attempts to make a dent in social programs will proportionately end defense spending. It will be a stalemate.

Goddamn. I am impressed.
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Tx4obama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. I just hope that when everyone else calms down they will see ....
Edited on Mon Aug-01-11 01:51 AM by Tx4obama

that Obama was REALLY playing chess this time - and he won! :)

I'm just surprised that none of the media have caught on yet,
surely some of them must remember that Obama released that framework back in April.
Or perhaps they remember but don't want to rock the boat until after the bill is passed.


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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. We'll see!
Check this post out: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=729230&mesg_id=729673

I don't think it'll be acknowledged if / until that happened, imo. Otherwise we'll just skoot along.
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #4
23. ...that's what I was thinking during the last budget battle
where Boehner and his side got pretty much rolled, but he still got to "save face", and there was plenty of grief and hair on fire here.

Its starting to look like a pattern - they call for a bunch of ridiculous ideological nonsense in their plan, threaten to cut everything under the sun, stir up every hornet's nest they can find, then they declare victory and approve what Obama asked for in the first place.

By then, everyone on both sides is so confused they don't remember where it started, and base their final judgments on the looks on people's faces, or something similarly sketchy. Its not much fun to watch, but it seems to work...
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 02:17 AM
Response to Original message
12. Wow, from +6 to +1.
The "recommend" feature is long past its due date.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 03:23 AM
Response to Original message
13. Obama vs Ryan: how the deficit plans compare
http://blogs.reuters.com/frontrow/2011/04/13/obama-vs-ryan-how-the-deficit-plans-compare/">Obama vs Ryan: how the deficit plans compare
HEALTHCARE
In addition to his healthcare overhaul law, Obama is proposing reforms to the government’s Medicare and Medicaid insurance programs for the elderly and poor that the White House said would save $340 billion over 10 years and $480 billion by 2023, including proposals already included in Obama’s budget. Over the subsequent decade, the president’s proposal will save well over $1 trillion, the White House said.

Ryan’s proposal would dramatically alter Medicare and the traditional fee-for-service program would eventually be eliminated. To save the federal government money, seniors would be given federal subsidies based on income and health status to shop for health coverage from private insurers. Medicaid would become a block grant program where the federal government gives states a chunk of money to run the health program for the poor without federal interference.

TAX REFORM
Obama is calling on Congress to undertake comprehensive tax reform that produces a system that is fairer, has fewer loopholes, is less complex and is not rigged in favor of those who can afford lawyers and accountants to game it, the White House said.

Ryan’s plan would cut the top tax corporate and personal tax rates to 25 percent, down from 35 percent. He calls for repealing Obama’s healthcare overhaul and the roughly $800 billion in tax increases contained in the law.


These are the two things Obama didn't get. These are the two things that are the most important.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 05:11 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Maybe Obama can use a signing statement to get those 2 things.
Obama could use a signing statement to define HOW he would apply the law once it is signed into law.
Just like Bush did.

I can't remember how many signing statements Bush wrote, but he totally thwarted the will of Congress after the Dems took back Congress in 2006.
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #13
22. You mean Medicare is going to DIE, as Ryan's plan proposes.
Stopping that is a win for Obama, yet you count it as a loss.

And the second was never going to happen.
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Pholus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 05:04 AM
Response to Original message
14. Call me when you actually SEE those increased tax revenues.
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Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 05:24 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. How do you see that unfolding? At first glance, this looks
like a major coup to me. Isn't it possible that if the current plan included lesser
revenue increases they could have superseded the "end of the Bush tax cuts." If
that is the case, we will get much more revenue. I am surprised that the repukes
didn't figure that out.

As far as this not coming to pass, how do you envision that happening? Will our
side "trade this away?" somehow? The House, if still Repuke, couldn't get an extension
pass the Senate.
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Pholus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 05:38 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Sorry, I am a cynic on this. The Bush extension is as easily held hostage as it was last time.

I have seen no indication that that will play out any differently. So what you say *is* possible, but "my sources say no" :)
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Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 05:52 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. well, I really can't see how the Repubs could have not
figured this out..and mitigated some how. Maybe it's their no-tax pledges prior to
their next election? Personal gain may have trumped the big picture. Or maybe
they know that the economy will still be in the ditch and few economists recommend
raising taxes in a recession.

On the other hand, this will likely be clearer before Nov 2012, and if Obama doesn't
finally give us the tax on the top, surely he's smart enough to realize it would
make him a definite one-termer. Perhaps we can count on personal motivation. Also,
if he doesn't do it, his cuts will definitely have to hurt what's most important
to us.

I am going to say you are probably right...but hope you are not.
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PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 07:16 AM
Response to Original message
21. So, because Obama had a framework in April, we're all supposed to agree with it?
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Tx4obama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. No one said that. n/t
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