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FDR as triangulating centrist (The New Republic, November 1933)

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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 05:35 PM
Original message
FDR as triangulating centrist (The New Republic, November 1933)
Edited on Mon Aug-08-11 05:38 PM by jefferson_dem
This is fascinating historical perspective, especially relevant given recent discussions regarding FDR. I must credit Matt Yglesias with the characterization in the subject line (http://twitter.com/#!/mattyglesias/status/100653515940179969), but it totally fits, in my opinion. ...As does "coalition government" and "team of rivals".

Mr. Roosevelt on Stilts
Jonathan Mitchell

November 29, 1933 | 12:00 am

We have never before had anything like the Roosevelt administration. Except perhaps for early assemblies of the Founding Fathers, there has never been a government in this country which has acted so rapidly, and imprinted its influence on so many varied areas of our national life. It is not enough to say that Mr. Roosevelt has been faced with a great emergency. So was Mr. Hoover, and he was as immobile as a lump of mud. Nor, unless you are a hero worshiper, can you explain it by Mr. Roosevelt's superior personal virtue.

What is it that makes the Roosevelt administration tick? For anyone wishing to investigate this problem, I have a few small suggestions. The first is that the administration is essentially a coalition government. From its inception, it has been made up of clearly recognizable Right and Left wings. On the Right, you find Mr. Lewis W. Douglas and what is now called the "Treasury crowd"; on the Left stand Mr. Tugwell, Mr. Berle, Dr. Wolman and a long list of liberal and radical lawyers, college professors and economists.

You find this principle of coalition running straight down through the administration. In the N.R.A. you find Mr. Roosevelt's deputy. General Johnson, perched between an Industrial Advisory Board representing employers, and a Labor Advisory Board, representing the workers. In the words of General Johnson: "Our whole organization is designed to maintain balance. An industrialist and a labor leader sit in on everything we do." Over in the Agricultural Adjustment Administration, you discover authority almost evenly balanced between a group unabashedly representing Big Business andthe group headed by Mr. Tugwell. Perhaps the most startling application of the coalition principle was Mr. Roosevelt's selection, last summer, of professor George F. Warren, exponent of the commodity dollar, and Professor O. M. W. Sprague, strait-laced economic classicist, as the two chief experts of the administration's unofficial committee on monetary policy. Here the coalition has signally failed to coalesce and—as is apparent in Mr. Roosevelt's recent pronouncements—the administration still lacks a permanent, agreed-upon monetary program.

I suggest that this coalition principle is the thing which gives the Roosevelt administration its great mobility. In a sense, a coalition government can be looked upon as simply a parliamentary form of dictatorship. If you are Adolf Hitler, you beat up your opponents with rubber clubs, fling them into concentration camps, or kill them. In a democratic country you bring the opposition inside your administration. In either case, you succeed in rendering your opponents temporarily voiceless, and ensure yourself such freedom of action as a partisan government can never have.

http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/78943/mr-roosevelt-stilts
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Cirque du So-What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. Under the bus with 1933 FDR!
Is there one liberal icon who hasn't inured the wrath of purists?
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enough Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. Why would you un-rec a document written in 1933? Is there some problem with historical perspective?
You may not agree with the article, (though who among us can say we remember that era in detail) but you've got to admit it's fascinating.

K&R
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Hawkowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. Obama could take a page out of FDR's book
And put some liberals and progressives in his administration instead of Goldman Sachs toadies!
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Hieronymus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. And challenge the "Economic Royalists" as FDR did.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. You mean after FDR invited them into his administration?
:shrug:
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boxman15 Donating Member (389 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. I'm currently reading Jonathan Alter's "The Promise" about Obama's first year.
I just finished reading the part about him picking his cabinet. He really took a page out of FDR's playbook by appointing both progressive thinkers and those who worked within the financial system. Both valued both the progressive thinking of some advisors and the insider's perspective of those who worked within the financial sector and on Wall Street. You can think what you want about that way of thinking, but those are the facts. Alter wrote a critically-acclaimed classic on FDR's first 100 days, so I trust his judgment.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
5. His "center" was a lot different than Obama's
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
6. Rec'd. FDR used a "balanced approach"
Where has that been said before?
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. +1. n/t
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. I've always said FDR was Middle of the Road.
We have fallen off the Far Right Edge.

---bvar22
a Mainstream Center FDR Democrat.




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
8. From
Jonathan Chait's piece (in response to Drew Westen):

<...>

Did Roosevelt promise to support expansionary fiscal policy to combat the depression? Well, yes, but only after initially promising to cut the deficit. Westen strongly implies that Roosevelt persuaded Americans to understand the efficacy of government spending in order to combat mass unemployment. In fact, he utterly failed to convince Americans to support fiscal stimulus:

Gallup Poll (December, 1935)
Do you think it necessary at this time to balance the budget and start reducing the national debt?
70% Yes
30 No

Gallup Poll (May, 1936)
Are the acts of the present Administration helping or hindering recovery?
55% Helping
45 Hindering

Gallup Poll (AIPO) (November, 1936)
DO YOU THINK IT NECESSARY FOR THE NEW ADMINISTRATION TO BALANCE THE BUDGET?
65% YES
28 NO
7 NO ANSWER

<...>

The point is that there were/are a number of factors at play in the political climate of any give era.

Then there is this:

<...>

FDR’s initial response to the Great Depression provides an interesting case in point, for Roosevelt came into office as something of a fiscal conservative. In keeping with the fiscal orthodoxy of the time, he called for a balanced budget during his campaign, was reluctant to deficit spend once in office, and even pressed for the successful passage of the 1933 Economy Act as one of his first major pieces of legislation-an act which cut federal spending by nearly 250 million dollars during the first months of his administration.

<...>

Further evidence of FDR’s inherent fiscal conservatism can be seen in his decision to cut federal spending at the start of his second term-a move which resulted in the so called “Roosevelt recession” of 1937-38 and which led to the first increase in the unemployment rate since his assumption of office in 1933. Stunned by this unfortunate turn of events, FDR began to heed the advice of those who advocated the economic policies of John Maynard Keynes. In 1938, therefore, the President would submit a budget that called for an increase in federal spending but without any concomitant increase in federal taxes. The resulting deficit, the President argued, was necessary to enhance “the purchasing power of the nation” so as to expand the economy-and the tax revenues that would flow from it-and reduce unemployment.

<...>]

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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
10. Uh... no.
At least not for the most part. When this piece was written, it was FDR's first year in office. FDR's positions changed as he got better knowledge. Remember when presidents did that?

Here's the operative plan:
"The country needs and, unless I mistake its temper, the country demands bold, persistent experimentation. It is common sense to take a method and try it: If it fails, admit it frankly and try another. But above all, try something." - FDR

FDR wasn't triangulating, for the most part. He was trying different ideas to find which ones work.

FDR started out embracing principles and programs both left and right. The programs on the left worked and were expanded, those on the right failed and were discarded. Except for the dreadful deficit-hawkery of 1936-1937 (thank God no politicians would be stupid enough to do that again!), FDR pretty well abandoned rightist principles and practices within a couple of years of taking office.

FDR tried things, admitted mistakes, and tried again. Quickly. That's why when FDR was as far into his first term as Obama is now, unemployment had dropped 20+% and GDP was rocketing upward.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Here's what you just said:
At least not for the most part. When this piece was written, it was FDR's first year in office. FDR's positions changed as he got better knowledge. Remember when presidents did that?

<...>

FDR wasn't triangulating, for the most part. He was trying different ideas to find which ones work.

FDR started out embracing principles and programs both left and right. The programs on the left worked and were expanded, those on the right failed and were discarded. Except for the dreadful deficit-hawkery of 1936-1937 (thank God no politicians would be stupid enough to do that again!), FDR pretty well abandoned rightist principles and practices within a couple of years of taking office.



Except for 1936-1937, which was the beginning of his second term. So he did not "abandoned rightist principles and practices within a couple of years of taking office."

In fact, he was still pushing them at the end of his first term.

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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Can you name an FDR rightist program or two in 1935?
Comparing FDR to, say, Clinton or Obama is surreal.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Surreal, yes! This whole discussion was necessary since some felt the need to compare Obama to FDR.
Edited on Mon Aug-08-11 07:19 PM by jefferson_dem
From The New York Times, February 2, 1935:



Go here - ?w=640&h=336
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Do you know what that headline is about? nt
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Trying different ideas?
Um, ok.

Sure, he tallied more progressive accomplishments when the Democrats expanded their power in both chambers of Congress, to 313 Dems in the House and 59 Dems in the Senate.

Still, well into his second term, the unions were not totally pleased with his record on labor. http://rootedcosmopolitan.wordpress.com/2011/08/07/the-left-loved-fdr-throughout-his-presidency-except-those-times-when-it-didnt/
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boxman15 Donating Member (389 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
16. Very interesting read.
K&R. The parallels are cool to read about.
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Jim Lane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-11 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
19. Misleading headline -- "centrist" meant "between the two wings of the Democratic Party"
For Obama to qualify for this comparison, he would have had to appoint Conyers as Attorney General, Stiglitz as CEA Chair, etc. Instead, he has largely ignored and deprecated the liberal wing (a/k/a the Democratic wing) of the Democratic Party.

Also, when it comes to fiscal policy, Obama is properly held to a higher standard because we know a lot more about macroeconomics now than we did in 1933. The stated dogma of today's Republicans, that we can create jobs by cutting spending, is clearly wrong. There's no virtue in taking a "centrist" position midway between geophysicists and Flat Earthers.
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shellgame26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-11 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
20. Bookmarked
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